Cities

Bade

So I'm not a new player, been playing Achaea since 2001, but I haven't been playing for the last five years so a lot has changed. Also, I've mostly played as a newbie, my latest character is my highest ever at almost level 70. This is just background for where I'm coming from.

Also, before I post please no Hashan bashing, I know we have problems, my character may even be pissed at them but it's still my favorite city after everything but I'm wondering if its for the wrong reason. I always liked Hashan as a neutral city, where you can come be whoever you want. I know Cyrene is suppose to be neutral but you can't really go there and roleplay a bad person. An evil assassin or theif. Maybe I'm wrong and that's why I'm starting this thread because I want to understand what each city stands for. I'm trying to do this in game too but I've hit roadblocks. So could somebody describe the different cities, and help me see where a religious scholar who's morally neutral fits in.

Alrena

I'd say Ashtan or Cyrene. Both are pretty open minded and free, and they can enter most cities (save for maybe Mhaldor). Even then, if you go about it the right way it's more than possible to talk about the different religions with each faction, no matter what city you belong to. It's probably just easier to do it as an Ashtani or Cyrenian.

Cooper

Here is my inner jerk coming out, but if you played from 2001 to 2008 and don't know the basics of each city you should probably spend more time in game. It would take 10 minutes of reading HELP CITYNAME for each city.

Amarillys

Knowing about cities and know how cities actually work from a citizen's point of view are two different things. I can read about Mhaldor and get an idea, but I wouldn't know until I actually either lived there or asked someone about their experience.

Mishgul

That's what ambassadors are supposed to be there for. Open to talk and field questions and further agendas and stuff

Vayne

It seems you can't really play a bad person, evil assassin, or thief in the Serpentlords either these days.

Jukilian

I dislike the terminology of being 'neutral', but that's just me. Hashan lately has been moving away from 'neutral' and closer to 'night' in alignment, which I think is good overall.

Cooper

Amarillys said:

Knowing about cities and know how cities actually work from a citizen's point of view are two different things. I can read about Mhaldor and get an idea, but I wouldn't know until I actually either lived there or asked someone about their experience.

He didn't ask how the cities work from a citizen's view, he asked for a general overview of each city. 

Bade

well I know how the cities were, its just seems like they're different now. mind you since I came back the two cities I was part of are different. Shallam is gone so I know little about Targossas. Hashan was a neutral city but now seems to be all about darkness which I don't understand.

way I see it is
Mhaldor Evil under Shaitan
Ashtan Freedom by anarchy
Hashan I understood to be freedom of expression
Cyrene Freedom to pursue art in all forms
Targossas Crusaders

I know thats pretty general, I'm trying to look closer.

@Vayne not sure what you mean by can't be evil in the Serpentlords they've always been about freedom to do as you like as long as you respect the house.

Shirszae

Personally, I think Hashan is moving closer to 'ghost' but thats just me. As far as Neutrality goes, I think the true neutral city right now would be Ashtan, even if the city is not technically classified as such. Its citizens are basically allowed anywhere as long as they don't raid, are free to do and roleplay very nearly whatever, etc, etc. 

At least thats my understanding from what I've seen. 

Jukilian

@Vayne is having a go at the current situation in Hashan, I would guess.

In general, Serpentlords are assassins, spies, and thieves.

Blujixapug

Targossas = praise the Light in honour of the Bloodsworn Gods. Protect the innocent. Crush those who deny the Light's glory.

Mhaldor = militant devotion to the cause of Evil. Do what Sartan says. Do what the hierarchy says. Kill people and eat their hearts. You'll start out as the dirt underneath the bottom of the ladder.

Eleusis = destroy those who desecrate Nature. These super-cute fluffy woodland creatures won't protect themselves! *romp*

Cyrene = the pond without ripples offers greatest tranquility. Having strong opinions on global issues might bring down a raid upon Cyrene. Why not create something pretty and nice instead? Everyone likes pretty, nice things.

Ashtan = pursue your own endeavours, we don't care about anything except our freedom to continue not caring. Oh except that group of weirdos trying to end the world, or harness world-ending powers, or something, but we only acknowledge them when it's convenient or really inconvenient.

Hashan = cesspool of hateful drama whores. Actual ideals obscured by cess. Possibly undergoing revitalisation: results pending.

The concept of "moral neutrality" is overrated and in practise can be lonely. You'll encounter more fun people if you attach yourself to one of the polarising organisational ideals, and figure out how to make your character enthusiastic about it. But based on what you described, Ashtan or Hashan would be the easiest fit.

Bade

@Jukilian And Scholars, they are often overlooked as such but it was once of tge main paths of a Serpentlord as well.

Jeslyn

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding what kind of character you want to play... a religious scholar that is neutral, but has evil tendencies?

If so, I would go with Ashtan. I find the city pretty interesting from a knowledge and neutrality aspect. Though... if you're truly a religious scholar, who wishes to know more, you may have some difficulties rubbing elbows with those that are strictly religious being an Ashtani. That's just my perception though.

Bade

yeah this may be the problem. I'm neutral in that I sometimes act good, sometimes evil. but the Religious scholar part is hard, really good or bad characters don't have much to do with me but I'll find a way past that I think.

Nakari

it depends heavily on if you mean individual freedom or personal freedom. Ashtan probably has the most personal freedom, at least in terms of what kinds of people it allows, but is pretty active in global politics. Cyrene limits what kinds of people it allows a bit, but is very politically neutral.

Hashan I can't speak to. I know that it's traditionally been both, but seems to be going more towards a personally free/more politically engaged then Cyrene sort of thing, but I don't enough to want to speak to it.

Bukariin

It's difficult to say that Ashtan is more "free" than other cities.  They don't explicitly disallow devotionists and forestals from joining, but rather, the devotional and forestal orgs disallow their classes from joining Ashtan.  There's a bunch of examples of this implicit freedom which is more the result of one faction being mechanically repressive to the class they control. 

Achimrst

I'm a religious scholar and a fanatic who fits into Eleusis, it just depends on what aspects of religion you have your character obsess. Such as:

Achimrst believes in spirits and doesn't worship them but has a religion based around them. Protecting them, "talking" to them, etc etc... He is an Eleusian because he believes that Nature is where spirits are most vulnerable to being attacked and changed into something they aren't supposed to be, exterminations, rocks used as walls blah blah blah. This is like an extreme generalization :P Either way he studies the gods and their relationships to spirits an he studies the multiverse and it's realtionship toward spirits so he is a religious scholar who obsesses about the spirits in Nature at this time :P Makes for fun RP too!

Fun part about it is you can always change what aspects of your religion you want to obsess about. So let's say you join Ashtan to be neutral and learn a bunch of stuff, only to find one topic that you think will be really fun and then do something to leave Ashtan and join another faction just for scholarly purposes or anything really. You should have a lot more flexibility then you think you do IMO!

Edit: forgot to @bade

Bade

it was personal freedom I was talking about, the freedom to do what you want to fo without anybody saying no you can't do that, within reason of course, not going to go around killing citymates. 

But I do have a question for any Hashani reading, how do I get involved with the city outside of raids, defence or offence? Maybe my problem with the city is tied to the fact the only people I've rped with all are against the darkness. Bade really don't care what twilight stands for as long as he can benefit

Vayne

@Bade, as @Tharvis said, thieving and assassination are what the lore of the Cult is all about, but that is not what the House has been about for a long time now, unfortunately. My character has a lot of conflicted feelings about the Cult, and they about him. It is all politics with certain personalities and agendas conflicting(which is the biggest draw in the game for me personally) with one another especially with the current mess going on.

However, Hashan is Twilight's city in affiliation as well as being the the literal founder of the city. Hashan was heavily affiliated with Twilight and later the Triad earlier in Achaea's history but drifted to a nebulous "neutrality" that it is now recovering from thanks to the work @Ourania and @Twilight have put into it. If you do not understand the direction is going you should ask the people who are leading in that direction. I would speak more to it here, but I think it better you play it out for your character to decide one way or the other because, as you said, I am sure the Serpentlords are giving your their opinion already, and it would be good to attempt to understand the alternative narrative.

Bukariin

Bade said:

it was personal freedom I was talking about, the freedom to do what you want to fo without anybody saying no you can't do that, within reason of course, not going to go around killing citymates. 

But do you have any concrete examples of what you mean when you say "do what you want to do"?  For example, any city will bar you from selling your goods or services to city enemies.  As far as I know Targossas is the only city that prohibits its members from mere fraternization with enemies, but otherwise most cities share the same "freedoms" as well as the same prohibitions. 

As far as I can tell, the oft-celebrated quality of "freedom-loving" only actually applies to a few aesthetic choices, not a broad spectrum of major choices.

E: It's also worth noting that, even though Mhaldor is a dictatorship on paper, never is one's behavior micromanaged to the point that they actually have no agency - Mhaldorians go about their lives quite the way they like, so long as it involves suffering, oppression, etc.

Bade

@Achimrst, Thanks for the advice I have been warned not to jump around too much because I could get a reputation.

@Vayne, Yeah I know about the conflicting ideas about you, but I believe that was going around for awhile. Truthfully while they might not care for you much I do enjoy the roleplay you bring to the table, I will take your advice and try to you and others to get the other view.

I have also decided to at least not jump ship until the house reneissance is completed.

Vayne

@Bade, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the current events are the culmination of things that have been a long time coming. Vayne would be more than happy to talk to you IG if Bade has an open-mind to it.

Bade

@Vayne I will take you up on that, I had a little chat with Tharvis and am starting to see Hashan's points. I'm openminded but its harder for Bade since the Serpentlord would got him to join seems the centre of this conflict but he'll try. I would like to help Hashan move forward.