New denizen change....

Samanthya

So not too sure why the change happened to such a severe level but it made stepping out of a room for a breather while bashing in the event another mob walked in impossible. Now they chase endlessly anywhere in the area, and if you cross the path of any other denizen there they start to chase as well. Was fun to be back for a few weeks I guess. Guess I'll see you all around if it gets fixed!

Mishgul

Im not sure that being entitled to bash places is a thing. I guess we'll wait and see what happens but i like that they have made bashing more difficult.
 There are always other places to bash if you are not tanky.

Jukilian

More specifics?

Edit: nvm hadn't seen new announce

Someone want to post it here?

Jacen

Yeah, haven't tried it yet, but the announce makes it look like bashing just got a hell of a lot harder/riskier with no additional reward.

Nim

Mishgul said:

Im not sure that being entitled to bash places is a thing.

In fairness, bashing is kind of how you get EXP, and that's useful for things that might be important in some way or another, so not being able to get it would be kind of crummy.

On the other hand, I've heard that ideal bashing means having a 0% risk of death, so taking things on that require you to leave the room might not be quite ideal.

On the third hand, ideal bashing is boring. On the fourth hand, losing an hour or so of bashing time because you died means you just spent an hour grinding for no actual advancement, which is probably worse than not being able to spend that time to begin with, so it's like crummy squared.

people have four hands right?

Mishgul

Yes

Synbios

Time to put this on your soundtracks, humans.

Aktillum

This sounds like the opposite of when they made mobs flee you if you were higher level than them. Remember that? Walk into a room with 15 goblin miners and they all run for the hills.

Samanthya

Bashing up in ilyrean, I can take two of the ice warriors easily enough, so was fighting them and two hatchlings wound up walking in on me, four is a bit much so took two steps out of the room(since there was a couple mobs in the room adjacent), they immediately aggro'd and joined the chase, from there it was a desperate dash towards freedom, but alas, the stupid ice fell and blocked the door, so I ran to make sure I had no eggs on me or wood, tried to get all the eggs to their proper room in the hopes the ice would go away or at least to grab some of it so I could melt it but I had managed to pick up every single ice warrior in the place plus other randoms. From there it was gg, same thing happened on the other island up there(can't think of the name, with the Sulkians). More difficult is fine, not being able to draw out one or two for hit and run tactics is ok. Walking through a room without stopping and having everything up and chase -endlessly- regardless of how far you run is a bit much.

It's all great if people are fine with it, I personally find it a bit too much that they will chase you that fast that far, the mobs up there aren't -that- high of level, they don't drop talisman pieces, I hunt there cause the xp while not great, is consistent and lets me just relax while playing which I find fun when grinding out xp, I go to eleusis and die to mhaldorians when I feel like excitement, not looking for that while bashing what should be easy mobs for slow but steady xp.

I just recently came back cause I was excited about all the upcoming changes, but this one just isn't one I'm willing to deal with. So no loss really, if it ever gets changed/reduced I'll look at returning, but since a large portion of my play time is now not an option for me, I don't see a reason to continue to stay around. I made this post because I'm not going to even bother logging back into the game again with how it stands so people who wonder why I just vanished again will be able to see that I left and here's why. There's no real IC way to play out leaving because this happened and being back for only a few weeks doesn't make my leaving now a major loss to the community.

Anyway, this is turning into a rant, which I didn't want, just wanted to express my displeasure over a specific change and let people know why I had vanished if they were curious.

Ureel

Heh, I don't know what they've been doing lately, but it's certainly -not- making the game more enjoyable. If anything, these bashing changes turn players off. First classes are nerfed, now this. What's next; remove xp and gold from the game all together?

Actually, why not? You can all sit around and rp with politics.  

Samanthya

omg Synbios, that is the -exact- song that was playing through my  head while I was running around like a crazy woman in there trying to get out.

Samanthya

But yea, died 3x due to the change, 2x was cause the changed happened and I didn't know and died then died to starburst, second death was from going in to get my gold and other items that dropped, put into my pack then let my melody drop.

Santar

I think you may be overreacting just a bit, princess.

Samanthya

ANNOUNCE NEWS #4215                                     (10/02/2014 at 03:52)  

From   : Mortori

To     : Everyone

Subject: Denizen Combat Changes

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We've loaded up a number of new additions and changes to denizen combat today, and I wanted to point 

out a few of the more immediately noticeable changes:

 - Denizens will now track much faster.

- Denizens that can track will now go after their primary target, rather than staying in their room 

fighting any other valid targets that might still be there.

- Denizens will be much smarter about reengaging targets who leave and reenter the room.

- Denizens who cannot use a hammer tattoo will become enraged when they hit a target's shield, 

causing them to attack faster for a short time.

- Loyal denizens that can be ordered to kill other adventurers should now be much better at 

remembering their targets.

Most of the other changes will not be immediately noticeable, but they allow for us to create 

stronger denizens, more durable denizens (without having to also make them hit much harder), and 

denizens that behave a little differently in the way that they chase you down or prevent you from 

fleeing. Look for some new denizens who take advantage of these features in the near future!

Penned by My hand on the 10th of Mayan, in the year 665 AF.

Aktillum

At least you can actually outrun the mobs. I remember in WoW, fleeing a mob and its still whacking away at your health from like 10 feet behind you.

Samanthya

Maybe Santar, but from my pov, I quit the game almost 3 years ago due to rl stuff, finally get excited to come back, find the changes and everything going on, work to get caught up, get a new system and my own reflexes back on track just to have one thing that was making me always want to return taken away(which was to actually get to dragon). 

I've played games long enough to know what I like, what I don't like and what I can compromise on, this change isn't one of the things I can compromise on so I'll head out now and save myself a lot of grief   if it gets fixed I'll come back to test it and if I'm ok with it I'll return, it's a game, it's meant to be fun and if not why on earth would I play it? 

Santar

They didn't remove bashing from the game. They made the AI more complex.

Samanthya

That's good, but they have an entire pvp system for complexity. Not to mention the political structures then the entire Garden thrown on top of it.

I like bashing for xp to be fun and something to do when nothing else is going on to either recover lost xp from raids/defenses or to work towards dragon. So if you're happy with it great. I'm not.  

Jukilian

So just to confirm my take on this - they made it so denizens react faster if you enter or leave their room?

I misinterpreted the OP as saying most/all denizens chase now, but fortunately doesn't look like it - just buffed ones that already chased.

If they are putting this much effort into stuff like this (like primary target etc) then the rewards for hunting in a group could at least be buffed a bit. As an example, primary damage dealer gets like 80% total xp, rest that deal damage get 50% total xp, those who didn't get 25%. Arbitrary numbers, etc.

Edit: my take on the whole situation is that they are aiming to make bashing more fun and interesting, which is why people like @Mortori‌ are working hard at it.

Aegoth

They just made is to that if you're bashing tough mobs with a group, and you're in that mob's sights... you will never live. Ever

Samanthya

I honestly don't enjoy hunting in groups though.

I've got a nice rotation that I can keep up in an endless loop with regaining endurance and willpower while sailing back and fourth. And no, it's still the same denizens that chase, but I like a bit of a challenge while hunting so pick a spot that requires me to at least pay attention. Now it doesn't matter what I do there, I die with the current set up.

I hope it's a good change for most people, or rather I don't so they change it back and I can actually play again cause I have really missed the game and wanted to get back into it. I guess it'll just be like EQ as it stands, nostalgia and all that without ever actually willing to return to it due to the changes/alterations to such a large degree.

Tesha

It's a new change, if they're that fast @Samanthya just drop @Mortori a message and see if it's intentional. 

Samanthya

@Tesha‌ I took your advice and sent him a message, maybe it wasn't intentional to be as severe as it is up there. I sure hope it wasn't and it'll remain actually bashable.

Cynlael

Lol. Bashing isn't hard in the slightest. The changes just make you realise how bad you actually are at bashing, if you're dying because of them.

Agreeing with @Santar here. First time for everything, I guess.

edit: @Carmain is also right.

Samanthya

Wow, thank you for your completely helpful post @Cynlael, I'm sure you've already been up to Ilyrean and tested it yourself.

To me, that's where I like to hunt, you go up there and fight 4+ mobs that hit for around 1-1.5k each and have a freeze effect on their attacks and let me know how it works for you though in the event you have to step out due to rng and get 3-4 more mobs. I'm sure you know all about the cave in that happens up there that prevents you from getting out as well without having the wood piece on fire that requires you to step into a room with a mob that chases, that also gives the freeze effect, that breaks limbs and causes other afflictions while trying to get out and let me know how that works for you.

Seriously, do you feel better about yourself for your extremely contributive post? Cause I know I surely admire you now for it  

Shirszae

Samanthya, surely you can try and see if you get used to it? I mean, I haven't tested it myself, that I freely admit, but perhaps if will actually get bashable again if you take the changes into account while bashing? As opposed to bashing and pretending nothing changed? Because your post comes across as if you plainly disliked it because you died twice and will not even bother to try. 

Cynlael

The passive aggressiveness is strong in this one.

Here's a tip: If you're having to run so much, and still dying, you shouldn't be solo bashing there in the first place.

Mishgul said:

Im not sure that being entitled to bash places is a thing.

You're not entitled to bash/hunt/level anywhere you want to. Welcome to gaming.


ps, getting mad at people on a forum isn't going to help you in the least bit.

Samanthya

@Shirszae‌ I -likely- could if I wanted to spend the time, but it would remove 5 rooms straight out from that area, not to mention the random rng of the mobs there that wander, making it too high of a risk factor. I intentionally found a spot that was several levels below me that I could bash consistently with a lower, but consistent xp gain that was away from everything else, and like all consumers, won't continue to buy or use a product I don't enjoy.

@Cynlael‌ I don't get mad at people who offer some form of help or advice, or even give their opinion in a manner remotely resembling an adult(considering this is a MUD, I highly doubt we have many people around under the age of 25(I myself passed 30 a few years ago), and if so congratulations for being part of a much older gaming group) rather than, rofl lrn 2 bash. Which is all you did and what I expect from any jr high sponsored mmo gamer who has never experienced games with quality. So yes, if your juvenile response immediately got under my skin when I was already upset about something, you'll have to forgive me for thinking immediately that it's likely past your bedtime. And the whole "anywhere I want to" doesn't apply to a place that I started hunting when it first came out and I sailed all around til I found where I liked, then spent the time learning how each of the mobs work and all the various quests of the two islands. Up until a few hours ago it was a viable place to bash if you had the caloric and patience for it. I do like how you immediately assumed you knew anything about me or how I bash in any sense. 

You quoted mishguls post, but actually the whole point is to be able to hunt anywhere you want, kill what you want(if you can) and do pretty much what you want. With pro's and con's to everything. It's a place I've never had any issues hunting until they made the random changes, and it's to such a degree that for me, yes, I won't bother staying around with it. If you're happy with it and think it's fine for non dragons to hunt then please, by all means enjoy yourself. Cause the way it is now, it's good for questing and dragon's to kill things, too bad the xp is worthless to dragons for time invested.

Sanek

They mobs chase insanely fast now. Some tuning to the chase speed, or give them the option to lose track would be nice. They feel like a homing missile that flies around corners.

I also wonder if

- Denizens that can track will now go after their primary target, rather than staying in their room fighting any other valid targets that might still be there.

is needed. Group hunting already is horribly ineffecient, does it really need to be made worse?

Cynlael

Sanek said:

- Denizens that can track will now go after their primary target, rather than staying in their room fighting any other valid targets that might still be there.

is needed. Group hunting already is horribly inefficient, does it really need to be made worse?

Yes, yes it is. Considering they've stated they want proper AI. Primary target is now whoever's dealt the most damage to the mob; something that should've happened a long, long time ago. If needing to think when group bashing is something that turns you off, then I really don't know what to tell you... Don't attack if you don't want to run the risk of something chasing you? *shrug*

@Samanthya, dunno what to tell you, when you're going to get mad at any form of criticism. You're playing a class that got nerfed, due to how hard it was hitting previous, on top of how -fast- it was hitting. Couple this with the fact you're bashing one of the harder 'harder' bashing areas (this I agree with you, to an extent on) and you're not going to have much of a fun time, but you're expecting to still be able to breeze your way through with it, then getting pissy when you're told that isn't the case.

Evolution: Adapt, or perish. Online games receive updates often. (Some good, some terrible [Hi Blademaster bashing changes]) - If you can't adapt, then you're ((as mean as it may sound to you)) not as great at bashing as you think you are. Blademaster's a class I've always gone back to, because of the flavour of playing it appeals to me. I wasn't in the least bit happy with how hard they got dumpstered with the bashing changes, but I made do with it, and changed how I bashed. (see: adapted)... In this case, adapting would simply involve you changing where you bash. Really not that hard. Achaea is huge, with plenty of areas. Plenty of which are left virtually untouched. (except during great hunts)

Fuck I hate writing walls of text.
tl;dr Find a new spot, instead of threatening(I guess?) to quit, just because a spot you previously bashed in got 'buffed'

Chiam

now give the chasing mobs a hindering/trapping ability and they will hunt you down and kill you better than PKers like @Jinsun! (yes im bitter coz I lost like 15% exp to him during bashing thinking I could win eqgem+huskmaker)

actual advice: just don't start a fight in a room knowing you can't take them down without running. This actually makes it a lot harder for me now that I have to watch out for people jumping me AND denizens jumping me, ow

while we're at it, consider allowing gravehands/piety/slip-on-ice-thing to work on denizens as well ok