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Endgame - Faction Balance

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  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Let's just Shallam everywhere, can be err'one vs err'one.

  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No.

    Just no.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • EphramEphram Member Posts: 122 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I get the general idea and I followed this out of rants to know that this started up from cities like Hashan and Cyrene having a hard time winning a CTF but... You have a city like Cyrene because not everyone wants to be constantly active in big world conflict and Achaea is big enough to handle that. City identities can be handled in many different ways, and if you want Cyrene at war with some other faction it could happen with some creativity. Theoretically, Cyrene could go to war with any of the existing cities right now with the right RP. (Not that I'm advocating for that...)

    I remember back in the day, when Pandemonium was created, thinking that this particular god had some serious potential RP possibilities within all of the cities. The problem comes with no one wanting to lose ever, and the best sort of plots would take real world time to complete, wherein, usually someone or Someone would clue a faction in that they were being played and people tend to fail at keeping boundaries between IC/OOC knowledge. 

    Anyway, it's late, but I guess the point I'm trying to make is you could build up even a non-combatant city into a decent sized force without an overarching game plot of alliances to do so. 

  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ashtan could ally up with Hashan in the current environment.

    That'll bring them up and bring the rest down a peg.
    image
    Silas
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    The obvious quip where Ashtan's numbers are bolstered whilst keeping current opposition must have been missed.

    You say Team Red/Blue were boring, I disagree. Shallam would be raided by Mhaldor/Ashtan and be rescued by Eleusis guerillas. Ashtan guerillas would dive into Hashan (even while enemied) to shove off a Shallam/Cyrene entrenchment. Shunning city relationships stifles politics, and war outcomes can be guessed before they're waged.

    Anything on a long enough timeline bores, but not as quickly as our current staling factions. Singular factions are limited, there's no mix, no internal mixing or rivaling of politics/beliefs. The eternal struggle between Mhaldor and Targossas has grown secondary to Ashtan's dominance over everything. No one can beat Ashtan alone, it would take an alliance. Hashan gets beat on with the obligatory minimum 10 man Targ crew, while knowing they don't know how to fight back.

    Eleusis is absolutely useless on a political level, as even @Rangor says they tried to aggress against Targossas and somehow, inexplicably failed. Which is actually impossible. Against Cyrene, the best they do is take passive aggressive jabs with their "There were trees in those mountains, bro" approach.

    Also, look at attitudes of "X was fun without A-Team around" and the acceptance that Hashan is an entity that should remain beaten.

    Your views are outdated, @Silas. Your Achaea isn't all it can be.
    image
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Players have leaders they have to follow. Once again, see The Reckoning's Targossas/Cyrene/Eleusis vs Mhaldor vs Ashtan.

    So, no. The "players can't be trusted" perspective is false. 

    RP factional differences do not dissolve. They remain intact. As you must have missed, I suggested a 'greater good' common threat. Survival at risk, cooperation is required.
    image
    Shirszae
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,216 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    No, hell no. Team Red and Team Blue damns factional RP - it is hard for a city to lay judgment down for killing innocents, if we have Penwizistan on our team. Eleusis can't be anti-city-militant (which is a rad thing, imo) if they have to ally with Cyrene and Targ. Maybe Team Red's RP would be unaffected, but it would absolutely screw up the individual identities of the former Team Blue. 

    Edit: "Greater good" is nice once every two hundred years IG, if that. In the mean time, it's better for six relatively hostile powers to be fighting each of the others for their own reasons, than to lump Nature/Good/Cyrene together again Chaos/Evil/Darkness
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    AktillumTerraEphramHalos
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,083 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The only thing I agree with at all is that isolationism is killing the game because we don't have the players to pull it off. Saying all six cities should be fighting each other all the time is the same as slowly condemning the smaller cities to die off as people leave them for want of people to interact with.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    MizikErnamHerenicus
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,182 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    How would you even combine Vastar's RP with that of Mhaldor? :P
    image
    ShirszaeTerraAtalkezHalos
  • BronislavBronislav MarylandMember Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The funny and/or awkward thing about being in Cyrene, from my character's experience, isn't that the city proper has zero interest in what the other cities do beyond Cyrene's borders and its people - that's more or less been par for the course for some time.

    The funny and/or awkward thing is the vitriol that one often experiences when a character wants to improve inter-city relations. This is less true regarding Mhaldor, as they're currently in maximum trollerdrive, but for a long time my character's been trying to find common ground with people of other cities - ironically, between Mhaldor being Mhaldor and members of Ashtani leadership attacking Cyrene for "being under the yoke of Targossas'/creation's control", my character's found common enemies with people of Eleusis and Targossas.

    I've found that there's a deep reluctance to take this to the logical next step (Team Red vs. Team Blue) on both sides of the fence. Cyrene, by and large, isn't interested in being anyone's pawn in a war machine. Targossas, as a city and not necessarily as a people, hold Cyrene in contempt because it "doesn't take enough of an active enough role in the defense of creation". Eleusis isn't a huge fan of Cyrene because of the destruction of nature that necessitated its founding, although Bron's quietly hoping that things may change given time and cooperation on that front.

    I'm not complaining, because it's the nature of the game; however, if one truly wants to encourage inter-city relations, then the first step is to encourage them through activities, discourse, trade, or just open communication.

    Just sayin'.



  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rangor said:
    How would you even combine Vastar's RP with that of Mhaldor? :P
    Global conquest from Skybase Alpha. Freedom is Slavery.
    image
    RangorTerraJhaeli
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rangor said:
    How would you even combine Vastar's RP with that of Mhaldor? :P
    That'd probably involve me ragequitting OH, but that's detail I suppose!
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Aktillum
  • SaevaSaeva Member Posts: 1,939 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bronislav said:
    The funny and/or awkward thing about being in Cyrene, from my character's experience, isn't that the city proper has zero interest in what the other cities do beyond Cyrene's borders and its people - that's more or less been par for the course for some time.

    The funny and/or awkward thing is the vitriol that one often experiences when a character wants to improve inter-city relations. This is less true regarding Mhaldor, as they're currently in maximum trollerdrive, but for a long time my character's been trying to find common ground with people of other cities - ironically, between Mhaldor being Mhaldor and members of Ashtani leadership attacking Cyrene for "being under the yoke of Targossas'/creation's control", my character's found common enemies with people of Eleusis and Targossas.

    I've found that there's a deep reluctance to take this to the logical next step (Team Red vs. Team Blue) on both sides of the fence. Cyrene, by and large, isn't interested in being anyone's pawn in a war machine. Targossas, as a city and not necessarily as a people, hold Cyrene in contempt because it "doesn't take enough of an active enough role in the defense of creation". Eleusis isn't a huge fan of Cyrene because of the destruction of nature that necessitated its founding, although Bron's quietly hoping that things may change given time and cooperation on that front.

    I'm not complaining, because it's the nature of the game; however, if one truly wants to encourage inter-city relations, then the first step is to encourage them through activities, discourse, trade, or just open communication.

    Just sayin'.
    Yes, because Mhaldor has no RP reason to be there. Just troll things!


    Bronislav
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,314 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    it wouldn't be team red vs team blue in terms of what you described either bronislav. It would be team blue vs mhaldor vs ashtan. Mhaldor and Ashtan fight on a very regular basis at the moment.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Jhaeli
  • BronislavBronislav MarylandMember Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Saeva said:
    Bronislav said:
    Stuff.
    Yes, because Mhaldor has no RP reason to be there. Just troll things!
    Not to derail too much from my point, but Mhaldor's RP reason is to spread the suffering of others and themselves, in order to promote Strength in themselves and others (among other things!). I accept that this reasoning is a very basic understanding on my part that's open to criticism.

    Based on that, the potential for improved relations just isn't going to happen between Cyrene and Mhaldor. My implication isn't that Mhaldor doesn't have an IC reason for acting as they do (OOC, you guys are trollin'), so much as improved relations between those two cities would require the cessation of beliefs and priorities that neither city are willing to give up.
    Mishgul said:
    it wouldn't be team red vs team blue in terms of what you described either bronislav. It would be team blue vs mhaldor vs ashtan. Mhaldor and Ashtan fight on a very regular basis at the moment.
    ..Erm, go Team Blue? :wink: 



  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,561 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Opinion: Need more non-PvP activities that have substantial impact on a city's 'worldly presence'.

    Overly-convoluted Example: Villages provide some sort of unique resource that cannot be purchased from their commodity shop, which is lucrative enough for other factions to acquire. Such as shardsEDI:"That is a joke."
    Theoretical application:
    1. Said villages initiate a cycle of 'exportation' of said commodity in a given date. They also have two types of score-based numerical values: separate dispositions towards a city and shared commodity stocks.

    2. Between cycles, citizens may perform tasks that improve the disposition of said village towards their city. Some activities are akin to 'village quests', which can range from hunting bandits to helping improve crop yield in their farms and award disposition and commodity stock.

    Others may be city-given quests that decrease another city's disposition towards the village, such as spreading nasty rumours via forged letters or sabotaging another city's grain donations in the village's warehouse. These types of quests provide greater disposition changes, but have a caveat that commodity stocks do not change, or even decrease. Possible additions may involve instanced events to dissuade PvP and quest cooldowns to prevent a single citizen from doing every quest to rack up disposition points too quickly.

    3. When 'export day' happens, village produces x amount of commodities, to be distributed to a city that has produced the greatest amount of 'disposition points' towards it. Afterwards, disposition points and commodity stock reset for another cycle.

    ShirszaeJhaeliAnedhel
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still want to see order V chaos someday. Mhaldor/Targs V ashtan would be so interesting and hillarious to watch.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    Jovolo
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,154 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aepas said:
    I still want to see order V chaos someday. Mhaldor/Targs V ashtan would be so interesting and hillarious to watch.
    It also kind of makes sense. Moreso than Mhashtan, imo.
    NimSilasHerenicusSherazad
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bring it bitches
    image
    AtalkezAustereDalran
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,542 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Targ 100% more likely to fight alongside Mhaldor than Ashtan (unless Babel/Chaos continues being sidelined I guess, which would be a shame).

    HerenicusTrey
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