The Newbie Channel, and mentors

Sybilla

Currently, newbies under level 30, mentors above level 50, and Romeo and Juliet (and Divine voices) are able to speak on the newbie channel.

There is an unwritten rule that while Romeo or Juliet are currently active, mentors are discouraged from talking/answering on the newbie channel. The last time I responded to a question on Newbie, one of the guides told me that it confuses the very young when others answer besides R/J when they're here, and feel free to help others when they're not.

I understand the sentiment, it's much easier if newbies know who to look out for when they're stuck and have a consistent and neutral presence/authority figure to turn to, rather than Joe Randomer who might be of a conflicting faction and so on. They're also volunteer roles who are there to fulfil a job, and I get that if people jump on the bandwagon, it makes their role redundant and frustrating (not to mention what gods-know tells they get on top of the Newbie channel when it gets rowdy!)

The issue comes from people who feel disgruntled and perhaps personally attacked when they're told "not to help". I have heard people complain on OOC clans that R/J were rude to them or told them not to speak or help newbies. I don't think that's the case, it's probably just a matter of trying to do the job of the guide when they're in that role, but I can understand how it might feel as though they're rejecting offers for help.


Proposed solution, then, is to make it hardcoded for mentors to be unable to use the newbie channel at all when Romeo or Juliet are online. Maybe trigger a message saying something like "Thank you for being helpful, but Romeo/Juliet is currently available. When they're not available, feel free to help newbies."

Personally, I feel that there are plenty more avenues to help out newbies that are far more rewarding and engaging than "Read HELP <file>" on the Newbie channel. If you're feeling in a helpful mood, go talk to your city's newbies about your ideals, teach them something new about Achaea, actually put in the face-time to let them experience what's great about the game. Don't be a dick and give volunteers a harder time than they have to.

TL;DR: bolded.

Ulrike

Sybilla said:

Proposed solution, then, is to make it hardcoded for mentors to be unable to use the newbie channel at all when Romeo or Juliet are online. Maybe trigger a message saying something like "Thank you for being helpful, but Romeo/Juliet is currently available. When they're not available, feel free to help newbies."
Personally, I feel that there are plenty more avenues to help out newbies that are far more rewarding and engaging than "Read HELP <file>" on the Newbie channel. If you're feeling in a helpful mood, go talk to your city's newbies about your ideals, teach them something new about Achaea, actually put in the face-time to let them experience what's great about the game. Don't be a dick and give volunteers a harder time than they have to.
TL;DR: bolded.

I appreciate and agree with the sentiment behind this, but I don't think it's a good or practical idea.

Even while R&J are around, mentors can provide useful help. It's proper to step back and let the Guides do their work, but there are cases where mentors can offer extra advice that's broadly applicable (like a specific org channel or mechanic that a newbie might want to use, or information on basic city quests, etc.) and that not every Guide player knows or is expected to know.
Occasionally R or J is very busy or linkdead or something, and a mentor will step in to answer a repeat question that hasn't gotten addressed.

Mentor involvement on Newbie also makes non-newbie players more visible to and active with newbies, which is positive.

(On the uncommon occasions where Romeo or Juliet is wrong, please do send them a tell and let them save face.)

Sena

I agree with Ulrike that it shouldn't be completely impossible for a mentor to use the newbie channel while a guide is on. Requiring confirmation (an "Are you sure?" prompt before your message goes through) or just automatically alerting you to the fact that Romeo or Juliet is around, and that the channel should generally be left to them (maybe suggesting that you help newbies privately in tells if necessary, instead of on the newbie channel), might be a good idea. At the very least, it means guides don't have to tell people themselves, and people are less likely to feel disgruntled/attacked from an automated message.

Sybilla

That seems reasonable too, @Sena it'd probably work better that way.

Carmell

I watch newbie and when I see Targossian newbies asking questions that would be better answered by a Targossian.  I will send them a tell and help them from there.  Sometimes it's just a matter of pointing them to a city scroll or actually telling them the information they want.  People can still help the newbies even if they aren't speaking on newbie channel. 

Sybilla

As HL/Ambassador, Romeo and Juliet have often sent me tells to give an extra nudge to a newbie in trouble, so it's not like they're being power-hungry newbie despots.

All I'm suggesting is to find other avenues to help if you want to, and don't take it personally when a volunteer asks you to let them do the job they're put there for. Pretty sure they're not there to deal with your abuse.

Lisbethae

There's no reason why someone can't nudge the guide if they think the answer is wrong instead of making it harder for the volunteer. It is pretty simple to think how you'd want to be treated if you were the guide, I think. Which is to say with discretion and kindness.

I've seen some pretty vicious attacks of Guides in clans, and I've seen (because the person who is upset shows someone, who shows everyone else) what was said. 99% of the time the request is very polite. I can't say the same for the reply from the person being gently corrected. 

I am sorry if it had to come to what the OP suggested for the reasons listed, but I would be grateful for it as sometimes I answer on Newbie only to find a Guide up and I'm so embarrassed, I can't apologize enough!

Prythe

I will sometimes send a newbie a Tell when they ask the same question more than once, but I try not to clutter the Newbie channel. I do agree that it is good that newer players see help form more than just R&J, and also not just from their "official" homes - Houses/Cities.  It is good for them to both see and learn that Achaea is a community that is involved and vibrant beyond the role play.

Orzaansyn

Sybilla said:

The last time I responded to a question on Newbie, one of the guides told me that it confuses the very young when others answer besides R/J when they're here.

I had the same, and the extermely rude tone they addressed me with made me to turn off newbie channel. Simple solutions are often the best ones.

Arador

Are you sure?.....Welcome to NewbieChannel Vista.

Klendathu

Hello, it looks like you're trying to answer a question on Newbie. Would you like help with this?

[Yes] [Please royally screw it up for me] [Please reformat it in the most annoying way possible] [Kill me now]

Siduri

I used to be active on Newbie. Got told off a couple of times. I'm not going to bother anymore.
I'd advise that this system is put into places for the sake of those who still use the channel.

Valaria

if julet or romeo.. or whoever is playing as them can't answer quick and told me off.. it will make me want to fill out a guide application.

Stuneree

I don't know about "newbies being confused if someone other than Romeo or Juliet speaks"... Newbies are young and stupid in-game, but not necessarily out of the game.
I've never had an issue with commenting on newbie though, personally... Though I do understand that if five people are answering a question, it might make whoever is playing R/J feel like they're wasting their time.

Amarillys

Sybilla said:

There is an unwritten rule that while Romeo or Juliet are currently active, mentors are discouraged from talking/answering on the newbie channel.

This is a thing? I do it all the time and no one's told me I'm being a jerk. Srsly, is am I a jerk for helping newbies? I usually see a question I know, and I'm like, ooh! I know the answer! And sometimes Juliet'll chime in that I'm right and it makes me happy. ^_^ Is she really meaning that I'm being a jerk?  

Ulrike

Amarillys said:

Sybilla said:

There is an unwritten rule that while Romeo or Juliet are currently active, mentors are discouraged from talking/answering on the newbie channel.

This is a thing? I do it all the time and no one's told me I'm being a jerk. Srsly, is am I a jerk for helping newbies? I usually see a question I know, and I'm like, ooh! I know the answer! And sometimes Juliet'll chime in that I'm right and it makes me happy. ^_^ Is she really meaning that I'm being a jerk?  

You're not being a jerk. It's just proper to let Romeo or Juliet answer the question first. They're the vetted guides who have the most authority to newbies.

After R or J answers, if you have extra information on that topic that you think would be helpful to the newbie (like city- or class-specific knowledge), you might say that. Or tell the newbie. As in my earlier post, if Romeo or Juliet is flat-out wrong, please send them a tell so they can correct their own mistake and avoid some embarrassment.

Tharvis

Ulrike said:

Amarillys said:

Sybilla said:

There is an unwritten rule that while Romeo or Juliet are currently active, mentors are discouraged from talking/answering on the newbie channel.

This is a thing? I do it all the time and no one's told me I'm being a jerk. Srsly, is am I a jerk for helping newbies? I usually see a question I know, and I'm like, ooh! I know the answer! And sometimes Juliet'll chime in that I'm right and it makes me happy. ^_^ Is she really meaning that I'm being a jerk?  

You're not being a jerk. It's just proper to let Romeo or Juliet answer the question first. They're the vetted guides who have the most authority to newbies.

After R or J answers, if you have extra information on that topic that you think would be helpful to the newbie (like city- or class-specific knowledge), you might say that. Or tell the newbie. As in my earlier post, if Romeo or Juliet is flat-out wrong, please send them a tell so they can correct their own mistake and avoid some embarrassment.

Or avoid embarrassment on your end that way. I've had it a few times now where I poked R or J in tells going "psst, isn't it -this-?" and the last couple times they just went "Oh, that was before -classlead round / ninjafix- you can find in ANNOUNCE####!"

You can already imagine what kind of an impression that would have given if they'd have had to correct me on a public channel. Full of the future generation players.

Ulrike

Tharvis said:

Ulrike said:

Amarillys said:

Sybilla said:

There is an unwritten rule that while Romeo or Juliet are currently active, mentors are discouraged from talking/answering on the newbie channel.

This is a thing? I do it all the time and no one's told me I'm being a jerk. Srsly, is am I a jerk for helping newbies? I usually see a question I know, and I'm like, ooh! I know the answer! And sometimes Juliet'll chime in that I'm right and it makes me happy. ^_^ Is she really meaning that I'm being a jerk?  

You're not being a jerk. It's just proper to let Romeo or Juliet answer the question first. They're the vetted guides who have the most authority to newbies.

After R or J answers, if you have extra information on that topic that you think would be helpful to the newbie (like city- or class-specific knowledge), you might say that. Or tell the newbie. As in my earlier post, if Romeo or Juliet is flat-out wrong, please send them a tell so they can correct their own mistake and avoid some embarrassment.

Or avoid embarrassment on your end that way. I've had it a few times now where I poked R or J in tells going "psst, isn't it -this-?" and the last couple times they just went "Oh, that was before -classlead round / ninjafix- you can find in ANNOUNCE####!"

You can already imagine what kind of an impression that would have given if they'd have had to correct me on a public channel. Full of the future generation players.

Oh yeah, that has absolutely happened to me already since returning. Herp derp garrote's a viable newbie bashing skill now!

Jeslyn

Slightly diverging off the topic, but I wanted to speak about the newbie channel in general and perhaps suggest things. The level 30 cap is awfully short...especially for those of us newbies that are used to bashing in other muds, but are new to the ways IRE muds do things. The help files really don't understand what you're looking for when you don't have a specific word for it. I wish it was like the all powerful Google.. where it can read through your umms and ahhs, but it doesn't.

So my question is, are there OOC ways to get help, in a quicker manner than the forums, when you are still trying to figure things out? Are the mentors and guides all free game to ask when you're way past level 30?

Bukariin

Cities and Houses will be your best form of support after you lose Newbie.  Use CT and HNT liberally.

Jeslyn

I just find it extremely awkward to use CT and HNT as an OOC help channel. All of these insanity and // tags weird me out, especially coming from RPI muds with separate question channels for that. I'll give it a try though.

Kaden

Shouldn't you be in the CAC? That's the channel for that in Cyrene. 

Sybilla

Sure, you're encouraged to ask your House or City for advice (even by Romeo and Juliet) so you can start interacting with allies and build relationships when it's questions a bit beyond "Where is Minia?"

I used to send tells to the guides when I was stuck on finding an answer, if it's not one of those peak times where everyone's asking at once, they tended to point me in the right direction, or at least help me work out how to ask.

OOC advice can be a little iffy and intimidating, but approach your mentor/teachers in tells and most would be more than accommodating. If it's client help you need, there's CLHELP HTML5 and CLHELP MUDLET as the big two, they're clans, just ask for an invite and you can ask your coding questions there.

I don't know you IC or out, but if you're stuck/struggling, send me a tell and I'll help you out

Jeslyn

I am in CAC, but I thought that was for combat questions only. My questions are usually dumb, non-combat related where I just have to sit around and fumble through commands until I get the right one... Usually trying the patience of the other person I'm with. Hehe.

Bukariin

There's a level of OOCness that is generally acceptable over HNT (like "how do I...?") as opposed to obscene OOCness (like "where would you suggest I download a limb counter?") that you might instead direct to an OOC clan or individual.

Kaden

Ostensibly, the CAC is for combat, but just in general "how do I?" questions, commands, and coding stuff fall under its remit.

Kerria

The worst the can happen with cac is that someone who knows will tell you they will take it to tells with you. 

I can imagine that most cities have some form of this. If not they probably should.

Sarapis

There should be no problem with newbies asking "how to" questions over city channels imo. 

Iuneos

Yeah, people may act coy and say 'Oh please read HELP INSANITY' at first, but you'll get a few tells from helpful people saying 'Hey bro do this', and then you can usually bug those people for information until they go dormant/ignore you.

Taraza

Right sooo, if I put myself in a guide's shoes, I personally would not want someone stepping on my toes as well. I have actually made the mistake many times in not checking if Romeo and Juliet are around and answer a question without checking on newbie. So, I agree with @Sena for making some sort of delay or "confirm" command for mentors above level 50 to speak on the newbie channel with Romeo or Juliet around. 

City channels are normally okay to ask "how do I..?" questions on, although in Mhaldor it is more preferred to do that on your House or send a city member a tell or two about it. 

Generally, most people will be accepting of the fact you are a novice and need a hand or two to figure things out. Just remember, even if you play in Mhaldor, there should be someone willing to help. If you are having issues with getting assistance in Mhaldor, try to stay patient and ask again a few moments later. It is very easy to miss things at times. Yet, if it is a continued problem, please point it out to a superior. I even know I am guilty of missing things that novices say and such.