Monk Tricks

Antonius

There's no mending involved in curing torso damage, by the way.

Also, as a very general rule, anything that requires your opponent to just stand in the room for five seconds before you prevent them from running isn't going to work on anybody worth killing.

Cooper

Bukariin said:

I thought it was five seconds but okay let's say six for fun

Target fully prepped:
Break arms(0sec) -> Break torso/head (2.5s) -> (chasing torso restore)Break legs (5.1s) -> AXK (7.6s) -> AXK (13.6s)

Restore arm(0sec) -> Mend arm (4s) -> Restore torso(5s) -> Mend torso(9s) -> Restore leg(10s) -> Mend leg(14s) -> Restore leg(15s) -> Mend leg/Stand(19s)

So that's two AXK combos, and you can almost shove three in.  Anyway you get to land that first AXK while torso, one arm, both legs and head are broken, so that's five breaks, and the second one should land before the first leg mends, which is four, and you get a head mangle, unless they do something dumb like heal head first and then you get to shove in an extra AXK or BBT.

I'm not saying it's better than BBT, but it's more viable than you make it out to be.

AXK balance isn't 6 seconds. It's 4.3-4.4s. You can punch 4 times in the span of the balance too if you spam it and don't use the combo command.

Bukariin

It's very close to five seconds for me, and it doesn't change the fact that people are right, nearly anybody who sees broken arms is going to run.

Of course all tricks assume the opponent doesn't know exactly what's going to happen, and most involve prepwork that can be undone by running.  That the victim can run at some point doesn't necessarily invalidate the AXK as a viable attack.  They can't run if you open with broken legs, true, but this at most provides a window for two BBTs, which as the OP states, is not particularly threatening against most targets.  Open with torso/head break and there's an opportunity to run.  The right move would be to run.

What percentage of opponents actually run at that point, though?  Less than 100% for sure.  And what percentage of opponents would run if you had arms and torso/head broken?  More, but not 100%. 

I'm not suggesting something absurd, like forcing restoration into pack when anybody worth a damn sigils their vials and pipes.  I'm suggesting something that would kill people with over 5k hitpoints, and double BBT won't do that. 

I'm also truly curious as to what talented Monks use successfully besides break torso/break legs/BBT.

Ernam

I don't know why you keep saying that.  2 torso BBTs kills about 98% of the game.  The only people who it can't kill are high leveled artied dragons & infernals.*

* If you're still using a low strength monk build, then we've found your problem.

Xer

What. Ernam is correct in that with enough Strength, two torso bbts will probably kill most people. But getting two torso bbt's off with only leg breaks is not doable off just prepping legs and double breaking if they're careful about catching torso, and assuming they don't mess up curing (such as having the leg breaks be hidden in blackout, etc. etc.). However, there are a number of fairly clear methods of obtaining two torso bbts in ways that are impossible for enemies to simply stand up and walk out of, assuming you prep enough limbs. If they set up a wall before hand and try to tumble past it, it may be avoidable, certainly. But there are many ways to set up kill sequences in which it is impossible for enemies to walk out of or shield against from the first break.

As an 11 Str Monk, it's not hard to get kills assuming you have enough Kai to Enfeeble (particularly if you can choke afterwards, and you went Int Spec). But even without Enfeeble, there exist AXK kills and BBT's kills that are still more than viable, even against said Infernals and Dragons, (though you might want a bit more than 11 Str if you plan to not use Kai >.>). If you had 16 Str, then certain AXK and BBT combos are almost certainly more than enough to kill even artefacted Infernals and Dragons without Enfeeble, the downside being that you need to prep a large number of limbs for the AXK to do enough %, unmitigated damage.

Ernam

Jonesey tanked enfeeble + two level 2 torso break BBTs, in dragonform =(.  I had 18 strength at the time. (fixed)

Mizik tanked: (with me using nimble, aldar, server queueing).  I had 21 str and 18 int at the time.

Pre-broke torso
pre-damage from Tekura
Mind crush (to force sip)
SWK/double leg break
Enfeeble
BBT (21 str)
BBT
(stood)
Kai choke (18 int + level 2 collar + aldar)
Kai choke


Sad face.

Xer

Oh, and to actually answer the question, you don't always need to use the COMBO ability in Tekura. Proper usage of delayed punches, timing of when your opponents attack, and the fact that Mind Command is a usable ability after Tekura combos is probably something you want to consider.

Also, wat. That doesn't seem right. Even with 14 Str, I can kill Dragons with Dragonarmour up with predamage < 50% and two broken torso BBT's. Granted, Jonesey is more artefacted than most IIRC, but with 21 str, that certainly doesn't seem accurate off hand.

Ernam

Yeah a simple prefarar axe or WWK combo can easily be used to cancel tumbles.  I have greaves+nimble though, so half the time I just leap over walls.

@Xer correction: I had 18 str at the time, but it's definitely a true story.  After the "fight" in this log, I did the same thing again with an enfeeble directly after the SWK/leg breaks, which yielded the same thing.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/a31fef19

Note the first combo not showing the "connects" messages, indicating max limb break.

Mizik

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/cdb3e398

112% Fullplate
68% Double towers

At this armour point, attacks without armor pierce do 0 damage. IE meteors, lunge, etc. Tekura has built in pierce.

Then that was reduced again by:

10% algiz

Then you'll see my health LEAPING up:

5% boar
8.3% lv3 regen
7% algiz

20.3% total in regen

Doesn't look like I was wearing my lv2 sip ring....

I was damage immune, but the issue was top end ( 100%+) armour stacking, along with the maxed regen stacks. Makarios saw this log and by the next morning there was a 1 shield limit. With a godly tower shield I could still cap out my blunt around 160% and get similar results.

Cooper

Did you mean uruz?

Mizik

Yeah 7% uruz.

Ernam

@Mizik logs like that are why I left monk.  The class is honestly just broken against people with 15 types of stacked blunt mitigation (runie, paladin, apostate, infernal, dragon).  You easily tanked one of the most damaging combos in the game, with me having 19 strength, and runie is nowhere even close to as tanky as infernal/apostate/dragon.

Glad double tower got nerfed though.  Dat shit is just silly.

Mizik

I'd pit Runie tankiness as best in the game. 'Nowhere even close' is uneducated.

Algiz resists Psi/Asphyx, uruz 7% is huge, berkana for lv3 regen.

Gebu on armor and shield adds an extra 14% blunt protect, which at ~170 blunt just GUTS raw damage BEFORE resists. 

Surprisingly, I was met with a ton of resistance when I questioned the existence of Demon Armor.

Bukariin

To be fair though, it does seem that stacking defensive arties on top of a class which already specializes in being hard to kill should make you pretty fucking impervious to quick tricks like enfeeble/double BBT.