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New Magi Combat Mechanic

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  • JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hasar would show you how to not suck
    PraxidesJhaeli
  • AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,185Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    Will convert for arties, no training required. 

    Edit: am I joking?   Who knows! 
  • AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Lol, does it include lessons in how to not suck without arties and trans weaponry for behead? Because I'm at the point where I'm about to just learn behead so I at least have an instant-kill I can set up for. I'd rather save for an SoA, but, meh.

  • HasarHasar Posts: 795Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Trans weaponry + dagger prof + duo trans allows for a lot of good tactics.

  • AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited September 2014
    Ugh, but I don't want to trans weaponry! It's so un-magi. Behead would be nice though. Throwing would probably be ok, too... And I have dagger prof, it helps.


  • ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Trans weaponry is both incredibly powerful and historically very "magi".  Venom use, shatter, and behead are all pretty much required tactics for anything but basic damage stacking.

    Like Hasar said, it should absolutely be the 3rd thing you trans.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
      1. AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        So, I'm sitting on 300 credits that I was going to save for an SoA. I'm trans riding, and I've toyed around with getting a mount and collaring it. You're suggesting that I just trans weaponry instead? I'm like 1400 lessons away, which is like...230 credits.

      2. AegothAegoth Posts: 2,482Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited September 2014
        Better idea: forget riding, just learn riding up to mule.. put everything into weaponry, start beheading bitches.

        Also join Mhaldor so Hasar and I can teach you how to not suck
      3. AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Yeah, Mhaldor RP seems kind of intense, though. And I don't want to do house reqs again to gain access to a crystal. And I'm already trans riding, but I really think I'm gonna go for weaponry.


        Praxides
      4. BlujixapugBlujixapug Posts: 1,833Member @@ - Legendary Achaean

        What if you built more stuff around reflections? Let the reflection mirror-cast a reduced-effect version of certain Elementalism spells, at the same time the mage casts them.

        Freeze: another freeze, or maybe a sluggish-type affliction like lethargy
        Erode: second Erode cast
        Deepfreeze: same as Freeze
        Illusion: add a second illusion, limited to 1 line, after the next prompt
        Transfix: adds a herb-cured mental affliction
        Reflection: gives you a second reflection(!!?)

        This might require you to adjust what causes reflections to be destroyed (only damage-dealing actions by the mage?), and maybe change the casting criteria (secondary illusion balance) and defensive benefits (attacks that break a reflection have a halved eq/bal cost). It could give mages a really interesting dynamic, where they adapt a more tricky offensive playstyle to preserve their illusions, and opponents are stuck with a "which one is the real wizard?" dilemma.

        Maybe wrap all this stuff up in a new ability called Mirrormastery that's only in Magi Elementalism.

        image
      5. DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        That would be annoying as balls to fight in every instance you've listed. Freeze reflection breaking would make for painfully easy shiver/frozen stacking (already easy to do on some targets thanks to staffstrike), stripping two defs at once is pretty ridiculous (depending on whether it gets anything useful), deepfreeze into an additional freeze would be instant frozen state, 2 illusions back to back would have been great back in the day when illusions worked, an extra herb aff would be okay I guess but not all that useful, and reflection chaining would cause classes with slow attacks to have nightmares.

        I like the idea of illusionist splitting like that though, kind of like how psionicists do it in EQ2. It would be cool, but Magi would need to change dramatically to permit such a thing to happen.
      6. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Would sooner see reflections limited or removed than buffed :(
        AegothRomErnamValariaDalran
      7. AlaskarAlaskar Posts: 393Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        reflections are great, wtf? Why would you want to nerf them? Of all the abilities that need to be nerfed, you pick reflections.

      8. JovoloJovolo EnglandPosts: 3,130Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Because they're dumb? They need a cooldown/more limitations to usage. Similar to Bloodboil!
        AegothDalran
      9. AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,498Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Reflections are great if you have the ability, otherwise they fucking suck and need to die.
        PraxidesDalran
      10. DarklyreDarklyre Posts: 189Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
        What if reflections were changed to be similar to the simulacrum ability in Occultism?

        Make it so that incoming damage (not limb damage and no affs) gets split up between the number of reflections you have, but the number of reflections you have decreases by one for each incoming attack. For example, if you're getting hit with 1000 damage attacks and you start out with three reflections:

        1st attack - take 250 damage, down to two reflections
        2nd attack - take 333 damage, down to one reflection
        3rd attack - take 500 damage, no reflections left

        Make it so that shielding only stops the damage, not the reflection being destroyed. Put them on a timer (similar to Vitality) so that they can't be abused non-stop.
      11. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Anyone who's ever fought a slow-prep sylvan/magi knows how infuriating reflections can be, particularly because the ability is ridiculously fast, and they stack with rebounding, shield, and lyre, making a virtually impenetrable wall of pointlessness any time the the magi/sylvan decides he no longer wants to participate in combat.

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
            AegothHerose
          1. AegothAegoth Posts: 2,482Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            edited September 2014
            Ernam said:
            Anyone who's ever fought a slow-prep sylvan/magi knows how infuriating reflections can be, particularly because the ability is ridiculously fast, and they stack with rebounding, shield, and lyre, making a virtually impenetrable wall of pointlessness any time the the magi/sylvan decides he no longer wants to participate in combat.
            Kai choke, breathstream, atlatls and other skills go through this "impenetrable wall of pointlessness" that makes it so that a magi will go down in three seconds in any intense raid scenario/LoS battle. Also, for some classes, reflections are pointless to use (like monks and Alchemists, for instance), and merely delays the inevitable. Do you even try to make informed posts anymore?
            Ernam
          2. SaevaSaeva Posts: 1,927Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            And blademasters/serpents can evade. Does that mean that because they have the ability of survival, utilizing it is them deciding they no longer wish to participate in combat or that they are using their class skills to survive against high damage/afflictions?


            Aegoth
          3. AustereAustere TennesseePosts: 2,185Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            I don't really think think that the opponent or skills they have is really what matters.  The fact is, if someone wants to turtle/run,  they can. Changing reflection won't change that. Personally I will just use shield instead.   
          4. HasarHasar Posts: 795Member @ - Epic Achaean
            Austere said:
            I don't really think think that the opponent or skills they have is really what matters.  The fact is, if someone wants to turtle/run,  they can. Changing reflection won't change that. Personally I will just use shield instead.   
            Reflect is better than shield against blademasters/serpents especially. Like 3000x better.

            EldErnam
          5. DalranDalran Posts: 227Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
            And there is a counter to evade, ofc not everyone has access to it, but not everybody also has access to an ability that goes through reflections. They're annoying as shit is all I'm gonna say on it though.
          6. SaevaSaeva Posts: 1,927Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
            edited September 2014
            Annoying, sure. And no not every class can pound the house on every class. Isn't that true? Just like I can't stop serpent evade, you can't stop magi relefect.


          7. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
            edited September 2014
            Aegoth said:
            Ernam said:
            Anyone who's ever fought a slow-prep sylvan/magi knows how infuriating reflections can be, particularly because the ability is ridiculously fast, and they stack with rebounding, shield, and lyre, making a virtually impenetrable wall of pointlessness any time the the magi/sylvan decides he no longer wants to participate in combat.
            Kai choke, breathstream, atlatls and other skills go through this "impenetrable wall of pointlessness" that makes it so that a magi will go down in three seconds in any intense raid scenario/LoS battle. Also, for some classes, reflections are pointless to use (like monks and Alchemists, for instance), and merely delays the inevitable. Do you even try to make informed posts anymore?
            You make a good point, actually.
             
            I concede that a large group of monks/dragons with atlatls can typically kill someone.  I suppose, according to your logic, this makes the ability "pointless" and totally useless in 1v1 combat.  (your logic actually makes anything other that "CT deliver please!" or "travel to Jhui with earring###" equally "pointless")

            Sarcasm aside, I find the fact that you called reflections "pointless" against monks a pretty good indication of your failure to understand how good the ability is.  Reflecting the first hit of a limb break combo can completely nullify a monks entire preparation - a strategy that I've seen several talented magi and sylvans use to great success.  [[ I can't see how blocking a SWK/JPK/RHK on a double leg break combo could ever be useful... ]]

            I'm not even going to entertain the "informed posts" troll, for more reasons than I care to count.

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
              1. AegothAegoth Posts: 2,482Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                edited September 2014
                Sorry, but if you're losing to reflections as a monk, you're doing it wrong. See a magi reflect? kai choke... or any number of the multitude of options monks have. Your horrid performance as a monk gives me high doubts as to your understanding of how to work around reflections, or the magi class in general. And let's remember... you're the guy that wanted Retardation to respect the quickness defence.  Jhui can handle/work around reflections, as can Kross and Xer. Reflections are useless against certain classes, and there's no hiding that fact.. just like any class has RPS versus others
                Ernam
              2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                edited September 2014
                Well, since you completely failed to comprehend what I was suggesting, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you again.  As for your insults/e-peen boasting, I let your actions speak instead of your words, and all it resulted in was you either teaming or hiding on guards.  I must ask, please stop responding to every post I make with personal insults.  I was purely commenting on the class mechanic that's being discussed.  If you don't understand what I'm saying, or don't agree, then feel free to ask for a clarification in a PM, or better yet, ignore it.

                To clarify: Reflections are "useless" against exactly zero classes.

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                  1. AegothAegoth Posts: 2,482Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                    Ernam said:

                    To clarify: Reflections are "useless" against exactly zero classes.
                    This right here shows your complete and utter ignorance of the Magi class. I just listed two classes that reflections are useless against, and you ignore it because you have no idea of how it's possible to get around it because of your lack of combat comprehension. If my statements of fact are insulting to you, please get some thicker skin. That or actually understand what you're talking about.
                  2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                    edited September 2014
                    Aegoth, I've played magi far more than you have, and have played far more classes.  While this doesn't necessarily mean I know more than you... in this case, it does.

                    Do you not understand that if I SWK/HFP/HFP and you have a reflection up, you can completely nullify up to a 5 limb prep?  Why do you keep on refusing to accept this?  It's a fact.  Please provide a response other than "but you can still kai choke", because that's just ... *facepalm*.

                    Against monks, in many cases, reflect is -far- better to use than shield.  If you use SLC or something similar (or count in your head), and you know your limbs are prepped, reflecting can completely destroy their offense.  They either don't catch the reflection, hit it, and reset all your limbs, or they do catch it, and completely stop their kill strategy and essentially "burn time" with something like mind strip, batter, or blackout (which is what I typically do when magi turtle).

                    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                      1. AegothAegoth Posts: 2,482Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
                        edited September 2014
                        Ernam said:
                        Aegoth, I've played magi far more than you have, and have played far more classes.  While this doesn't necessarily mean I know more than you... in this case, it does.

                        Do you not understand that if I SWK/HFP/HFP and you have a reflection up, you can completely nullify up to a 5 limb prep?  Why do you keep on refusing to accept this?  It's a fact.
                        Monks don't just kill with limb preps. "Let me completely ignore an entire skillset so my point is valid." Things like this are why your word isn't highly respected
                      2. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                        And with that (comical) response, I'm exiting this dialogue.  Shouldn't have even bit in the first place.

                        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                            Saeva
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