New Magi Combat Mechanic

Austere

The things I would do for an extra fire resistance for magi truly are sickening. 

Alaskar

I second that notion. Why Elementalism doesn't have a fire resistance is beyond me

Raegoth

Xoran/Dwarf have fire resist, can spec for caster classes too.

Tharvis

Austere said:

The things I would do for an extra fire resistance for magi truly are sickening. 

or how about "You can cast holocausts! Now you take 25% less damage from them!"
(or is that too much)

Hasar

You don't even need holocausts to kill people. More of a group combat ability.

Ernam

Lothiac has impressed me with some pretty dynamic, creative uses of holocaust bombs to win 1v1 fights.

It'd be silly to dismiss one of the most damaging and stackable abilities in the game as useless in 1v1 combat, particularly for a class with some of the best hindrance (retardation/brazier being, arguably, pretty amazing at holding people still).

Alaskar

Brazier? You mean that weak ass summon tattoo that's stopped by tumbling to a monolith?

And any possible room hindering we have only really works with us staying the room with them.  So if I stack Holocaust globes, assuming I have them timed pretty close together, how do I keep them in the room without having to tank my own bomb? 

Anyways, do you guys even attempt retardation on classes like apostate or priest? I mean, it's so easy for them to just stack afflictions in it and turn the tables. 

Ernam

blizzard/holo is one idea.  It works.

Tharvis

...snowstorm is a Groves ability, Magi have no blizzard ability.

Ernam

Hence why I said Lothiac.  It was a bad example I suppose, but I've always seen holocaust a bit like Kaido Deliverance.  It's about anticipation, timing, psychology, etc.  When used intelligently, it's incredibly powerful.

Austere

Ernam said:

Hence why I said Lothiac.  It was a bad example I suppose, but I've always seen holocaust a bit like Kaido Deliverance.  It's about anticipation, timing, psychology, etc.  When used intelligently, it's incredibly powerful.

Kai deliverance that can blow you the hell up.  Personally I love holo just to deprive enemy kills and help my kdr stay the same. Magi has a lot of psychological skills and I love it for that reason.  Holo, retard, and cata give everyone the willies.

Alaskar

Of those, only one is really formidable.  Cataclysm is stopped by a shield and not area wide anymore.  
As for Holocaust, if my opponent has 6k health and I have 4k, it's really only going to help them. I mean, I could stack two, break legs, retard, hailstorm, then fly right before detonation, but that takes skill combined with a lot of luck. 

And everyone hates retard.  They run at the sight of it or try to get it nerfed.

Austere

Saying cata is not formidable because of shield is like saying snipe is weak because of shield.  There are counters to both and both are very sick.  Cata has the benefit of transfix. If I have a cata in a @Jhui‌ raid,  chances are I either get exploded, or  i steal a third of the kills. Holo is about as double edged a sword as retardation.  At the wrong time, you screw yourself, but If used properly on certain classes,  it is amazing. A lot of people bail on holo drop because, with arties, I can burst you with a Hammer in vibes , which is what I meant by a psychological attack.  Does it work on everyone?  No.  Is it scary as all get it?  Yes

Alaskar

It's more of the fact that cataclysm has to be spun by two magi in combination with its other weaknesses. I'm not saying it should go around shields or anything. And with a team of magi working it it would likely be stupid OP. 4 magi staff casting would dish out 4-5k of damage per attack.

Austere

I had a big lengthy post wrote up to point out the perks of cata and why it is so obscene in certain scenarios,  but decided I don't want to be the one responsibly for a nerf again.   I am one of the magi who utilizes cata at least every other month though,  so take it from me; it rocks. 

Iuneos

Just remember that no other classes can do what cata does, and that is give someone a writheable aff and put out massive amounts of damage.  Transfix alone is worth spinning it up. 

Alaskar

No, I didn't mean to downplay the significance of cata, as it's certainly potent. However, in my experience, it's a pain to get it spun and I've never use it for 1v1. There's no doubt that being able to transfix from distance, and maintain it almost indefinitely with at least two or three magi helping, is tremendously powerful in group situations, but that doesn't do much for 1v1 fights. Also, soul spear impales and deals mad damage, and goes through shield. Well, decent damage, anyways. Kind of dependent on other factors. But that's besides the point. I like cata, love retardation, and really like holocaust globes, and I acknowledge that I need to learn to be more precise and creative with my setups to stack damage.

I would like to see something like fire resistances or something to mitigate holo's damage.

Iuneos

BEGIN ENCHANTMENT OF RING WITH FIRE RESISTANCE (or whatever it is)

Ernam

You can already literally go buy like 45% fire resistance.  Considering that you also have massive magic damage mitigation, and one of the best DPS mitigation abilities in the game (reflection), I don't see what the problem is.  Like has already been suggested, if you're really that desperate for additional fire damage resistance, you can also go dwarf/xoran.

Alaskar

Something that gives me and advantage over my opponent. If we both have equal access to it then we might as well not consider it.

Ernam

You're specifically talking about magi vs magi, so I don't see how you expect to achieve that.  Thermology is already a pretty significant investment for the average player, and without a prismatic ring, upkeep of fire resistance is a pain-in-the-ass at best, and pointless at worst.  As a magi, you have it far easier than most, however.  The main reason I bought a prismatic ring (twice) was because I simply couldn't find resist rings for sale as often as they faded.  Not an issue for a magi.

Razha

Iuneos said:

Just remember that no other classes can do what cata does, and that is give someone a writheable aff and put out massive amounts of damage.  Transfix alone is worth spinning it up. 

Personally, I like classes being different, everything seems to be moving to a jack of all trades setup and I think that kinda takes some of the fun out of the class system.

Alaskar

My point was that everyone has access to those same resistances. They may be a pain to keep up,  but they're there nonetheless. I like how magi is one of the fairly unique classes, but something to make my transcendent ability hurt my enemy more than myself would be nice. And I have no additional resistances unique to the class. Reflection as dps mitigation is irrelevant as Magi is the main class that has to rely solely on damage. Reflections are certainly potent, but not game breaking.

I love magi, and have never had any remote interest in other classes, but I would love something to have more control over my offense especially against high health opponents. 

As it stands I can either burst damage, which is useless against high health, or trap in retardation which gives me a short amount of time to do as much damage as possible. Which is neat, but against some opponents it's not feasible. Unless l, as others have said, get a lucky tick with specific vibes, certain people just can't be killed.  

I kind of think that's an issue that could be looked at. 

Aliath

Holo is not that hot (no pun intended) given how long you are off equilibrium afterwards, and it also deals damage to the magi, and seems to do this before dealing damage to the other people (or am I wrong there?), and magi do as a general rule have less health than others.


Ernam: I am still curious what you meant about magi having one of the best LoS???

Jacen

I really thought they gave magi a passive resistance to holobombs, specifically, but I can't find it anywhere in an Announce.

Alaskar

Oh and the absolutely horrendous mana and willpower cost. Which I like for flavor and wouldn't want to see changed, but it's like an instant death against classes like priest. 

Jukilian

Magi have control over the elements, so I don't see how unrealistic it is for us to magically weave ourselves a fire shield, similar to a chargeshield.

I mean, with enough Magi you could theoretically move a mountain. So much potential for what a Magi could do with the elements (see: Avatar).

Alaskar

I sat in retard with Goggo in a rampage and staffcasted him until my vibes ran out with an occasional staffstrike or venom jab to make sure he couldn't run, and he just tanked it all. Said I didn't even get him close. I didn't stack holocaust or hailstorm, but he said the lowest I got him was like 4K. I mean, wtf do I do with that?

Oh, and I was successfully defeated by someone throwing monoliths all over the arena, after I picked up and mushroomed most of them. And a knife sigil magically cut through my channels when they were both bound and fortified. I couldn't follow tumble due to icewalls, otherwise I would have just followed into the next room. Guess I need to get a mount again, but by the time I mountjump and focus, I'll have lot my advantage. That only really works when they're almost dead though.

Ugh, my problem with Magi combat is that I know I'm doing thing wrong, but I feel like at top tier even if I did everything right I'd still not be able to kill people, so why bother? Unless I get a ton of arties and loldamage everyone

Hasar

Join Mhaldor! 

Alaskar

I, uh, I'm not tracking on how that would help me? You going to donate arties if I do? Cause if so, we've some RP'ing to do!