Underworld

Melodie

First off, you're coming off as entitled: We don't HAVE to respond to this at all, much less give you a "good" reason. You're the one who is going to end up punished no matter what, this isn't about "turn about is fair play". You're breaking a (very big) rule, whereas he is not (even if he's being a jerk).

Secondly, there's absolutely no proof he used forums to come after you. Santar constantly hunts around in Annwyn/UW, it was likely entirely by happenstance that he ran across you. It's definitely not uncommon.

Bukariin

Noak said:

a noob like me?

Noak said:

I have a gem of cloaking.

Artied noobs exploiting RP mechanics to avoid Santar

Noak

Nellaundra said:

Then you ain't a noob.

I am a noob, I just paid credits for protection. I have no idea how to leave underworld, and had no idea I couldn't use house or city channels to ask for help. Like I said, if he had found me and killed me before I asked the forums for help I would have died. Instead, as soon as I posted here he used that to locate me and kill me. I find that not cool.

Nellaundra

Okay. You're a rich idiot, but you're still not a noob.

Bukariin

Noak said:

Nellaundra said:

Then you ain't a noob.

I am a noob, I just paid credits for protection. I have no idea how to leave underworld, and had no idea I couldn't use house or city channels to ask for help. Like I said, if he had found me and killed me before I asked the forums for help I would have died. Instead, as soon as I posted here he used that to locate me and kill me. I find that not cool.

Well thank god we have you as the judge of what is and isn't cool to do in this game right guys

Melodie

I have determined that this must be a troll thread.

I am going back to making my pie.

Noak

Melodie said:

First off, you're coming off as entitled: We don't HAVE to respond to this at all, much less give you a "good" reason. You're the one who is going to end up punished no matter what, this isn't about "turn about is fair play". You're breaking a (very big) rule, whereas he is not (even if he's being a jerk).

Secondly, there's absolutely no proof he used forums to come after you. Santar constantly hunts around in Annwyn/UW, it was likely entirely by happenstance that he ran across you. It's definitely not uncommon.

I guess I don't understand how being cut off from my city, house, everyone, and not having any idea how to leave an offplane area means I deserve to die to Santar the moment I post on the forums?

Nellaundra said:

Okay. You're a rich idiot, but you're still not a noob.

SO I paid for a gem of cloaking so I could go to underworld to hunt. Because I don't know how to get out I'm an idiot (where would I find this information)? I've been playing actively for maybe 2-3 months. I'd consider that noob level. Just because I created this account years ago and played for a week doesn't mean anything. I tried to leave when I got to UW, there was no roots in the room I landed in (to "touch root"). I killed a few mobs then tried asking for help, obviously no-one responded (I was trying to ask city/house) so I posted a forum post since there's NOTHING on the Acahea wiki or google. As soon as I do this Santar shows up and starts killing me. So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Nellaundra

Yep. It'd end all this drama anyway. You're making a lot about nothing. One death is a drop in the bucket.

Noak

If I'm at fault, then please tell me where the information on how to leave is located so I could have avoided my situation.

Kinilan

Well done troll, well done. Now get back under your bridge.

Bukariin

Noak said:

 So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Mmmmhm

Noak

Bukariin said:

Noak said:

 So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Mmmmhm

So then the forums are legit means of information in game? Does open pk mean that all avenues are acceptable? Then how is me journaling to avoid dying to someone who finds me via forums somehow different if the rules don't apply?

Bluef

Noak said:

Melodie said:

First off, you're coming off as entitled: We don't HAVE to respond to this at all, much less give you a "good" reason. You're the one who is going to end up punished no matter what, this isn't about "turn about is fair play". You're breaking a (very big) rule, whereas he is not (even if he's being a jerk).

Secondly, there's absolutely no proof he used forums to come after you. Santar constantly hunts around in Annwyn/UW, it was likely entirely by happenstance that he ran across you. It's definitely not uncommon.

I guess I don't understand how being cut off from my city, house, everyone, and not having any idea how to leave an offplane area means I deserve to die to Santar the moment I post on the forums?

Nellaundra said:

Okay. You're a rich idiot, but you're still not a noob.

SO I paid for a gem of cloaking so I could go to underworld to hunt. Because I don't know how to get out I'm an idiot (where would I find this information)? I've been playing actively for maybe 2-3 months. I'd consider that noob level. Just because I created this account years ago and played for a week doesn't mean anything. I tried to leave when I got to UW, there was no roots in the room I landed in (to "touch root"). I killed a few mobs then tried asking for help, obviously no-one responded (I was trying to ask city/house) so I posted a forum post since there's NOTHING on the Acahea wiki or google. As soon as I do this Santar shows up and starts killing me. So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Unless I'm mistaken, your gem of cloaking would not prevent you from being picked up on alertness. Therefore it may be merely coincidence that Santar came after you after you posted here. Perhaps he saw you walk by him in an adjacent room and following the real reason that most people go to the Underworld (to kill things and people) he attacked you. 

If anything, you're the one guilty of crossing IC and OOC boundaries by trying to use information derived from the OOC forums to solve your IC problem. So yes, you're supposed to give your XP to him - or whoever comes across you when you un-journal, because in the reality that is Achaea that is a reasonable IC resolution to this situation. A youngster in the realm somehow dodging Santar, magically finding the exit in a 400-room area, and living to tell about it: Not very RP-realistic. 

Bukariin

Noak said:

Bukariin said:

Noak said:

 So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Mmmmhm

So then the forums are legit means of information in game? Does open pk mean that all avenues are acceptable? Then how is me journaling to avoid dying to someone who finds me via forums somehow different if the rules don't apply?

Yes, yes, and do you need me to draw you a picture

Strata

Before thread gets closed. Is Noak Targossian? (checks notepad)

Nellaundra

He is, actually.

Synbios

Strata said:

Before thread gets closed. Is Noak Targossian? (checks notepad)

Yes.

Jacen

While I'll not comment on the specifics of this thread, it does raise questions about acting on information. Since it's the admin's stance that Achaea is not an RP-enforced game, and its been said by admin that using wiki information is perfectly legit, there are obviously some cases where using information gets you punished, as people have been shrubbed for such in recent times. Is only the transfer of information from one character to an alternate character punished? So, theoretically, is it ok to act on a forum post by someone saying their in UW? It also seems like I remember a log where someone said on TMC or some other big OOC clan that they were logged in on their phone (pre-serverside curing) and immediately got jumped afterwards. Is that okay?

Santar

I'm not even legitimately convinced this troll doesn't know how to get out. It's obvious he knows what he's doing when he's sip/journaling and spam running away all over the place with good curing. He also has several arties, pretty much omnitrans, level 82, and is 146 y/o IG.  Not to mention that he tried to drop piety/demons and curare/pref me to death once before journalling again. 

So far he's journaled from me about 10 times over the course of 90 minutes, staying gone various amounts of times, including journaling while prone with a broken leg, journaling while webbed, etc.

It's not like the underworld root in Azdun magically sneaks up on you and whispers to you, "Touch me." to trap you down there.

Noak

Bluef said:

Noak said:

Melodie said:

First off, you're coming off as entitled: We don't HAVE to respond to this at all, much less give you a "good" reason. You're the one who is going to end up punished no matter what, this isn't about "turn about is fair play". You're breaking a (very big) rule, whereas he is not (even if he's being a jerk).

Secondly, there's absolutely no proof he used forums to come after you. Santar constantly hunts around in Annwyn/UW, it was likely entirely by happenstance that he ran across you. It's definitely not uncommon.

I guess I don't understand how being cut off from my city, house, everyone, and not having any idea how to leave an offplane area means I deserve to die to Santar the moment I post on the forums?

Nellaundra said:

Okay. You're a rich idiot, but you're still not a noob.

SO I paid for a gem of cloaking so I could go to underworld to hunt. Because I don't know how to get out I'm an idiot (where would I find this information)? I've been playing actively for maybe 2-3 months. I'd consider that noob level. Just because I created this account years ago and played for a week doesn't mean anything. I tried to leave when I got to UW, there was no roots in the room I landed in (to "touch root"). I killed a few mobs then tried asking for help, obviously no-one responded (I was trying to ask city/house) so I posted a forum post since there's NOTHING on the Acahea wiki or google. As soon as I do this Santar shows up and starts killing me. So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Unless I'm mistaken, your gem of cloaking would not prevent you from being picked up on alertness. Therefore it may be merely coincidence that Santar came after you after you posted here. Perhaps he saw you walk by him in an adjacent room and following the real reason that most people go to the Underworld (to kill things and people) he attacked you. 

If anything, you're the one guilty of crossing IC and OOC boundaries by trying to use information derived from the OOC forums to solve your IC problem. So yes, you're supposed to give your XP to him - or whoever comes across you when you un-journal, because in the reality that is Achaea that is a reasonable IC resolution to this situation. A youngster in the realm somehow dodging Santar, magically finding the exit in a 400-room area, and living to tell about it: Not very RP-realistic. 

That's a pretty big coincidence since it was not even a minute or two after posting that he was ganking me. 

Bukariin said:

Noak said:

Bukariin said:

Noak said:

 So I'm suppose to give up my exp to him, when it seems obvious to me that he saw my post, showed up and ganked me?

Mmmmhm

So then the forums are legit means of information in game? Does open pk mean that all avenues are acceptable? Then how is me journaling to avoid dying to someone who finds me via forums somehow different if the rules don't apply?

Yes, yes, and do you need me to draw you a picture

Well...if you say yes I guess you are agreeing that both using the forums and journaling are acceptable. So ok then, please draw picture.Strata said:

Before thread gets closed. Is Noak Targossian? (checks notepad)

Not sure what Targossas has to do with buying a gem of cloaking, but ok.

====

So far the majority of players say I should just let him kill me despite, the obvious notion that he probably used the forums to locate me. So if that's what I'm supposed to do "suck it up and die" then so be it. Unjournaling and dying.

Bluef

Santar said:

I'm not even legitimately convinced this troll doesn't know how to get out. It's obvious he knows what he's doing when he's sip/journaling and spam running away all over the place with good curing. He also has several arties, pretty much omnitrans, level 82, and is 146 y/o IG.  Not to mention that he tried to drop piety/demons and curare/pref me to death once before journalling again. 

So far he's journaled from me about 10 times over the course of 90 minutes, staying gone various amounts of times, including journaling while prone with a broken leg, journaling while webbed, etc.

It's not like the underworld root in Azdun magically sneaks up on you and whispers to you, "Touch me." to trap you down there.

What is the typical punishment for a dozen or so breaches of HELP HONOUR?

Santar

Usually a warning or a one level drop in credibility.

Not sure how it'd escalate based on the obvious severity of journaling while webbed/proned/etc multiple times over the course of 90 minutes.

Noak

I gave him the kill, and this experience has left me sour enough to wonder if I should continue playing. I don't know how purchasing SVO some artefacts, spending 2-3 months learning a game I had abandoned a few years ago doesn't make me a noob, but I am new to this game. I have spent a total of maybe 4 months playing. I have no idea about a lot of things, a friend of mine helped me setup some combat items. I hope you enjoyed your kill.

Shirszae

Noak, breathe. Its just a kill. It might be upsetting, but thats how it works. I am pretty sure at least someone in Targossas would help you recover the experience, along with pointing how things work in a more amenable way if you asked properly. Throwing a tantrum here won't help you at all. All you are doing is digging your grave, really

Bukariin

Noak said:

I gave him the kill, and this experience has left me sour

Or maybe you could learn from the experience?

Noak

Learn what, that asking a question on the forums can get me killed is legit?

Noak

Shirszae said:

Noak, breathe. Its just a kill. It might be upsetting, but thats how it works. I am pretty sure at least someone in Targossas would help you recover the experience, along with pointing how things work in a more amenable way if you asked properly. Throwing a tantrum here won't help you at all. All you are doing is digging your grave, really

Dying is not the issue. Asking a question on the forums, and then dying because of it is what I had a problem with...but I'm at fault for trying to avoid dying to such mechanics. Is using the forums to find people to kill in HELP HONOR? Probably not. But somehow it is the burden of someone who is new to understand this, not the veteran like Santar.

Bukariin

Noak said:

Learn what, that asking a question on the forums can get me killed is legit?

Okay here's a list

1) ANYBODY can kill you in the Underworld for any reason any time always

2) Journaling to avoid fights will get you shrubbed

3) Avoiding Santar is futile

4) Posting that you're stuck in an Open PK area is as good as asking to be killed

5) You don't know nearly as much about the rules of this game as you think you do

Somebody help me out if I'm forgetting anything

Noak

Bukariin said:

Noak said:

Learn what, that asking a question on the forums can get me killed is legit?

Okay here's a list

1) ANYBODY can kill you in the Underworld for any reason any time always

2) Journaling to avoid fights will get you shrubbed

3) Avoiding Santar is futile

4) Posting that you're stuck in an Open PK area is as good as asking to be killed

5) You don't know nearly as much about the rules of this game as you think you do

Somebody help me out if I'm forgetting anything

You're right I don't know much, if anything about the rules. Hence, why I let him kill me. Somehow using out of game mechanics to track down easy victims is cool to you anyways.

Naverre

Using out of game mechanics to track down easy victims is about the same as using out of game mechanics to figure out a secret to an area (like how to leave it).