A War System Proposal

Alaskar

So the Eleusis/Mhaldor war has gotten me thinking about what would really make war enjoyable for both sides, and though I've no involvement with either side in this war, I thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject.

Without a declaration of war, but during hostilities, cities often raid one another. There is little warning, and their is no real substance to the attacks, other than the battle itself. War, however, should certainly feel a little different, other than just having roving gank squads that kind of harass the enemy whenever they step outside of their walls, or the random, unpreventable exterms that seem to really bother the Eleusians. So, a couple of ideas that could be easily enacted by players and leadership without any mechanical changes.

1. Terms of surrender are set, offered by Mhaldor, but this has no real impact on how the war will be won. An actual goal is needed. So, in Mhaldor's case, say they want the Northreach forest- then they increase their presence in that area and keep it exterminated. This gives the eleusians a simple front to fight and focus on, rather than trying to just go fix random exterms. It also gives a sense of fighting for a piece of land or a resource. IRL, wars are not fought on all fronts (note I'm talking about a total war, not guerrilla/insurent stuff); they are fought in specific locations, and I believe this would go a long way to making things more manageable for both sides. 

2. Frequency of attacks. I kind of wonder what would happen if both sides planned MAJOR offensives within their factions, using IC, spyable methods. For example, Mhaldor pans to make a major push to take over Northreach, so they set an IG date, which can be converted with the IG command, on which their entire army is formed up and ready to rock. So Mhaldor decides in 6 months, they will be launching an all out assault againt the village. They send letters and use messengers to carry the letters (as well as messages, too, to be sure everyone gets the word) ad let their side know when exactly things are going down. In the meantime, they cease any real offense as they're "marshalling their forces." Now, Eleusis has the chance to engage in espionage, kidnap Mhaldorians, etc, and prepare a real defense. 

The end result is a large, somewhat balanced battle, in which both sides had a chance to RP and work to win. Political/Non-com types can disseminate information or collect it through careful questioning/spying, etc. Intelligence organizations can work to issue propaganda and whatnot, while more martial houses can prepare in arenas and such to polish their tactics. So long as this isn't abused, I think it could keep it fun for everyone. It could be a letter sent to Cyrene by the Eleusians to request aid (be it commodities, gold, help in monitoring forests, etc., ) that a Mhaldorian heard mention of in a casual conversation (yet still an interrogation) with a cyrenian and then tries to get his hands on or something.

Also, in large pitched battles, relative to the war as a whole, it makes determining a winner/loser easier. I mean, if on the 31st of Sarapin, 663 A.F. the Forces of Evil suffered a devastating defeat at the hands of the Forest warriors, doesn't that look better in the history books than "in 663, there were numerous raids against Mhaldor and they won some and lost others, then the war ended, yay."

The point being, if leaders really stress RP over actual combat and winning/losing, there's no real reason war can't be enjoyable. Instead of ganking random Eleusian hunters, why not kidnap them? True lock and carry back to Mhaldor for sentencing. I don't necessarily think war should indicate an increase in only in combat; rather, it should cause increase in RP and activity by all citizens, non-com or not. Material alliances can be made without committing soldiers. Intelligence gathering and disseminating can be done by anyone, though care would have to be taken to ensure it's not abused. By that, I mean not making one real date for a battle then making 10 fake ones. But sending out 10-20 letters something akin to, "Attn: MAGGOT. You are hereby ordered to report to the 'Gates of Mhaldor' no later than dusk on the 10th of ERO, 662, for a large-scale offensive to be initiated the following day, by order of the Lord Marshal." and then another letter conveniently dropped in a forest about an attack the day after. Clearly, there'd need to be an OOC agreement on when both sides have available something like both sides agreeing "Ok, well, we can have large numbers online around the 5th, 6th, and 9th" then it's narrowed down but not specified, meaning close guarding by Mhaldorians can win them some surprise, or diligent espionage by the Forest can win them time to prepare.

Just thoughts on the whole thing. Thought I'd see what everyone thinks about things like this working out.

Bukariin

What you're describing - a set time and date for a fight something like six days ahead of time that the enemy will have notification for - is called Timers.  They're used a lot in EVE Online for the attacking/defending of player-owned structures.

They're awful. 

For starters, they force people to 'alarm clock' for events, meaning you're logging in just for that fight, sometimes very early in the morning or very late at night depending on timezone.  This can be disruptive to real life, but since it's something The Other Guys will do, you feel pressured to do it too.

The other reason they're a bad mechanic is that they allow both groups to assemble hordes of players for the attack/defense of the objective.  I'm sure you've heard of the "epic" 2000-man fights in EVE, but I can testify that they're always terrible.  What you do in the fight matters very little.  You die before you even know you're taking damage.  There are dozens of player organizations in EVE that explicitly avoid this kind of fighting because they prefer the "small-scale" fights that happen spontaneously, not for objectives.

And finally, the big reason for me: It's not going to improve the state of things between Mhaldor and Eleusis.  Mhaldor will be able to get more dudes for timers almost around the clock.  The only difference with Timers is that Mhaldor is now guaranteed to assemble more dudes than Eleusis, whereas before Eleusis might get lucky and have five active dudes to Mhaldor's three.

Jacen

Eh, I disagree. As long as the "timer" battles are infrequent, its nice to have that large scale fight on a rare occasion. This exists in the current Icon system, and its damn fun and memorable. Even if you lose, its okay in the end, because you could prepare beforehand, and the battle itself was exciting enough to be its own reward. Very different from *kill 100 guards on offpeak time*write public newspost declaring victory*

Bukariin

I agree that, if used very sparingly, Timers can provide some serious variety.  They definitely shouldn't replace spontaneous raiding as the primary source of city v. city PVP, though.

Jacen

Oh definitely. Its only fun that way because it happens so rarely, which lends to the epic atmosphere of the conflict. That doesn't mean that a similar system couldn't be used in city vs city war, as long as it maintains the rarity that makes such a battle unique in the first place.

Athelas

Ultimately, anything would be better than the current system of demoralizing players until they no longer log in. Something needs to be done or we'll just end up having another dead city on our hands.