Roleplaying question

Keown

Hi! I had a specific question about roleplaying, but I wasn't certain which thread to post in. I hope this is the correct one. My question is: What is everyone's opinion on characters who are contemptible? I feel like it would incredibly interesting to play one (not that my char is one or trying to be one), but would the rest of the community see this as an asset for the variety of roleplaying personas? Or a liability for having someone driving away potential players who don't want to deal with those kinds of people? Just curious...

Sena

It can be interesting if done well, but it's hard to do well. You have to be careful with it, and make sure you're not just being annoying or ruining everyone else's fun. You have to be contemptible, but still make people want to play the game with you. There have been a few characters like that, but it's easy for your contemptible character to instead be seen as one of the (much more common) contemptible players, which nobody wants.

Sena

I don't really have any specific advice on how you'd do it. It's probably not something I could pull off very well myself.

There are a lot of different ways and reasons for being disliked though, so a good first step might be to think about exactly what you want to play. If you just want to be hated because you're a villain, that's easy, there's an entire city for it (although then you'd be surrounded by similarly evil characters, so you wouldn't necessarily be disliked within that group). Do you want to be disliked by pretty much everyone due to a well-known reputation, or disliked for more personal reasons that people would only see after interacting with you directly? Do you want the cause to be your personality or your actions? Considering questions like that should help narrow down your role and how you could play it.

Shirszae

I think they need to be likeable on some level, be it because of trait, characteristic, mien, or something else. Something that takes them out of the cardboard mold and breathes life to them. No one is contemptible just for the sake of being contemptible, after all. Be it books or movies or whatever.

Of course, you also need to be careful. You are not going to be contemptible to all characters out there. At least not if you actually do it well enough. So you really need to think about what exactly is the role you want your character to achieve, and what you want it to reflect. 

Melodie

Sena has great advice, and the main other piece I'd offer right this moment is to let yourself build a reputation. You're not going to be able to do anything grand right off the bat, or become well-known quickly (at least not in an OOCly good way), but you can definitely work your way up. It takes time, backing from others (more people who back what you're doing, more likely you are to be taken seriously), and consistency in your roleplay.

The question is, like Sena said, what do you wanna do exactly? There's a lot of subtle details in all roles, good guy and bad guy.

Ruth

If you want to pick someone's brains on the subject, ask @Aepas. He contributes a lot to his city, order and house but his character is fairly disliked by both citizens and people outside Mhaldor, mostly due to the way he comes across.

Jurixe

It sounds a bit like your goal is to roleplay an abrasive character but one that people still grudgingly like, as opposed to just someone that people universally hate. If the former is what you mean, the comment about building up your reputation as someone worthwhile first is very true - if nobody likes you, they won't really find a reason to interact with you (or endure an interaction with you, as the case may be) if they don't get anything out of it, and you'll just become option two. It's easy, I think, to be someone people dislike, but it's not easy to be someone people want to like but don't.

Just a few words of advice: It can be difficult sometimes for people to separate IC and OOC when it comes to such abstract, subjective things as personality. If you're generally yelling and throwing around swear words every second sentence in game, it's a fair assumption that your OOC self is like that too and this may affect how people interact with you. Primarily, I think, you want to be concerned about how you can contribute to the community still despite not being someone easy to get along with.

Athelas

@Keown The root of a contemptible character is an inherent contempt for all others characters, boiling down to an attitude of: I don't care about them, because they don't care about me.

This contempt for others, needs motivation, typically something like a wronged lover or less commonly, growing up in desperate conditions. I personally prefer the dead family member/lover motivation, but that's not really possible within the context of Achaea. Also, this contempt is tempered by the character knowing they need a modicum of interaction with others, in order to make life liveable. Contemptible characters are, in the mean, of above average intelligence and generally take action to benefit themselves, if such action benefits others, it's nice but doesn't serve as motivation for the character's action.

In D&D terms, think of a Chaotic Good Rogue. The kind of person that wouldn't think twice about stealing a painting from a rich merchant, but can't walk past an destitute elderly woman, without handing her his entire coin-pouch.

A nice movie example of such a character, would be Han Solo from Star Wars episodes 3 to 6. His motivation is simple, his ideals are quite compromising. (Yes! Han shot first dammit!)

The only reason he is tolerated, is because he happens to be useful. Ultimately though, those around him realize he has more to offer than just his skill, and he realizes that he has more to live for than money.

And there lies the problem with playing this kind of character, regardless of how contemptible you play it, you will inevitably end up in a story arch where the character is liked and most probably loved by an entire group of people. The Anti-hero can only be anti for so long. You need to decide under which conditions your character will no longer be contemptible, and that will once again depend on the initial motivation. This is the point at which the character realizes that people actually do care about him/her, and that they can return that care without reprisal.

So, to answer your question:

1. Yes, it can be done.
2. No, it's no more difficult than playing a villain, but if you don't define your motivation properly, your character will become a villain.
3. If you've done your motivation properly, be prepared to have your contemptible character become the loveable, adored person they were born to be.

Aepas

You said you want to be a likeable a-hole, that's normally something I'll see as a more humorous person. Perhaps a jester or someone who is just a bit narcissistic but comes through in the end, I dunno.

Ruth mentioned my name, so I'll just say that Aepas' role is simply being completely loyal. When it comes to order, city, house, or even those that he considers friends, he will do whatever it takes. However, he holds hard grudges and has a bad habit of insulting people publicly, under the guise of a civil tongue. While I may never match some of the wit and smooth talking of people in fiction like Tyrion Lannister, (I wish I could emulate his insults, not so much the rest of his character) the way he speaks publicly is how I try to emulate but much more aggressively.

Just remember nobody is only one thing, for every fault a person has a redeeming quality, and vice versa. This is both intentional and unintentional.

As it has been stated before, make sure to build yourself up as a good character first. Aepas didn't really develop his aggressive and harsh demeanor until I had been playing for nearly a year (more precisely when his druidic powers were lost). Before then, I think I was well liked by most people as a very shining and up and coming example of a new person, then my personality just took a bit of a turn. It felt natural so I just went with it.

Many people want to jump straight into role playing, but remember that part of your role when your new is well... being new. You might learn everything oocly, but remember to let your character learn and develop as well. If you don't you might as well be metagaming experience and influential power you just don't actually have. If you create a disconnect between how you view your character and how everyone else views you, you're going to have a bad time.

Keown

Alright so my next question is how do you achieve this? I try to think about all of the antagonists from various movies, tv shows, books, etc. that people actually liked and rooted for, but the more I think about it... Would you like those people if you had to be around them? Or can you only appreciate their character development as an observer?

Keown

Those are some good questions to ask. I just wanted to pick yer brains on the subject. I've been thinking about it for quite some time and wanted to get a variety of input from different people.

Cynlael

Ask Bonko.

Keown

Very much what Jurixe said. Is it possible to be a likable ***hole was kind of what I was getting at. Not that that's what I'm going for with this character, but just wondering if it's even possible.

Herenicus

Be prepared for some disappointment. Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't take much by way of abrasion, maybe just a conversation or two, to cause even our best players to paint you and your character as abrasive, generally. They won't be content to feel that way privately, either.

Trey

Hey guys, is it possible to be a likable asshole?

Herenicus

Trey said:

Hey guys, is it possible to be a likable asshole?

I guess it depends on who you're angling to be liked by and whether you're punching up or down.  

Edit: And nobody can be as funny as Trey without being prepossessing. 

Synbios

Strategic use of custom emotes gives dramatic weight to your says.

Comparison:

Keown says to you, "You suck."

versus...

Keown smirks at you, his scorn readily apparent.

Keown says to you, "You suck."

Jhaeli

To add to Synbios' post, the more clearly you show that you're roleplaying by using emotes, expressiveness, poses, etc., the more others will understand that you're just playing an asshole ICly, not OOCly, which will be your biggest challenge at first likely.

Nellaundra

I play Nell as a fairly abrasive asshole as a whole, but people tend to come to me anyway. Mainly because the good outweighs the bad on that front - she may be an asshole but she's a competent asshole. Very few people actually enjoy talking to her ICly, I think, while I make it pretty clear on OOC clans and stuff that she and I are not the same person. If you want to be an asshole but still get people talking to you, hold things that they want - in Nell's case, it's a case of being able to get what people want and having few (no) morals about how she goes about it. And being a pretty decent paying customer on top of that - she always overpays and gives tips as well.