The Big Ship Thread

Krypton

Kazuya said:

You guys, none of that stuff even matters unless ship logs are fixed.

Okay only joking but on a real note mine only retains the log for the current month.

I don't have any trouble viewing all the months' logs with READSHIPLOG <ship> 0 <0-6>...

Jules

They were only fixed relatively recently after being broke for a very long time.  Poor Syth was all excited about it and of course someone had to say "oh it's been fixed for a while", you know, the way Achaeans do.  Meanwhile, I was thinking, "oh cool, shiplogs are fixed"?  

Blujixapug

Sarapis said:

My reflections based on the excellent feedback thus far:

• As I had been fairly sure, the cost (in currency, in time, etc) commitment to participate in ships is too high all around, from the cost to buy a ship to the cost (time) to sail to islands, etc. It's too much like actually sailing across a wide-open ocean. Boring as heck.

The mandatory time investment any time you want to leave harbour makes casual ship play difficult. Thinning out the worst chops, and removing harbour limits so you don't need to spend an unanticipated 45 minutes checking every harbour from Tasur'ke around to Aalen, will help a lot.

Adding some more objectives specifically on the ocean will help the needle-in-a-haystack issue for people looking for ship vs ship encounters. Right now many ship activities use ships and sailing only as a means to an end. If you want to sail to an island to go bashing, or do a trade deal, you're only on the ocean for as long as the journey takes. The exceptions are fishing and diving, which can be done anywhere at all, seamonster battles which are rare, and piracy itself. Some location-specific activities would help this out, eg. ship trade routes that are known to be A-to-B, harpooning in established locations, seamonster battles in established locations, NPC vessel escort missions on known A-to-B routes, or org-based ocean territory capturing.

I'm currently torn on the value of keeping wind. I think it has simulation value, but simulation doesn't necessarily mean fun. How many of you that sail would be upset if wind were just removed, making sailing in any direction equally quick? Would it remove too much tactical value from ship combat?.

I like wind. Wind is fun. It's fun to set your sails and get up to a flying speed.

Chops, not wind, are what kill the momentum of sailing,. Hitting a chop will instantly bring you to a dead stop. Many chop mazes are too intricate to navigate through at full speed.

I do not like wind in a few places like for example the northwest of Sapience near Eirenwaar, where sailing one way you have the wind in your favour, but making the reverse trip you have zero wind, cannot raise sails, and are left rowing extremely slowly. In this area chops restrict you to a specific route, and the only alternative route is to circumnavigate the continent in the opposite direction.

Ships need to be more easily handled by solo captains.

Ships are already easily sailed solo. If you want to sail around, sail to an island, go fishing, go diving, do trade deals, you can do all of that alone.

It's only when you get into combat that you need multiple people (2-3+) to operate weapons efficiently, and having multiple people deep into different specs becomes beneficial or necessary.

We force people to specialize too much. We don't have the player population to justify doing that. It's ok for SPPs to give people small advantages in role X on a ship, but there's no reason not to let players do everything on a ship, in order to encourage more group ships.

Population is a huge problem with seafaring. Populating the ocean is a problem. Fragmenting the playerbase by siphoning players away from the mainland is a problem. Good luck with that one.

I think the five different specs are great in theory. Choosing between them is fun. I hope they remain in some form. It is worth evaluating how well they work in terms of being optional advantages vs mandatory requirements, balance between specs, and maybe how specs are gained, switched, and ranked up.

Liscos

Here's a big oneThis is the biggest one I could find. 

Aduan

I'm not all that knowledgeable about sailing. I only do it when i need to get to an island which is more then likely... never.

1. Daeir's suggestions for getting goods from the islands seems like a really good idea overal.

2. Ship return: You could change it, to having the ship itself being transported back to the mainland harbour of origin. That way it cannot be used as a teleport-gateway.

3. All the ferries defeat the purpose of owning a ship for transport needs, and the risk for going towards an island. It's convenient yes, but not a way to get people in ships.

4. Add something else to do on the open ocean, such as whale fishing, small npc pirate ship attacks. Making being out there a bit of a less empty experience.

5. Ship combat quickly devolves into short-ranged melee (bind the sails, forceboard). Personally i'd like a more naval style battle where the weapons can aim for the crew/people on board and damage ships by aiming for specific parts, or knock people overboard/hurt/kill. Where forceboarding is something you can do once the ship has been really incapacitated by cutting down the masts etc. Props if you do it by swinging with a chance to fall in the ocean and drown.

Oceana

- Keep winds, keep weather, keep wavecall (helps me get away, but also helps with chop sailing).

- Keep chops, but broaden some of the ways, just like how it was done with Tuar.

- Let us lower ladders and disembark/board near harbours, especially if we don't get unlimited space in harbours.

- Yes to unlimited space in harbours!

- Give us more environmental messages when sailing please.

(Just a few random thoughts)

Jarrod

Something to address the issue of bad wind in certain areas would be to give seastriders and war galleys slightly increased speed one-point off from wind, similar to what windcutters have. (Currently if the wind is from the SE, if you're sailing ESE you're counted as sailing into the wind on striders and galleys, but not in a cutter)

This would allow you to tack whenever sailing against the wind more easily.

Jules

I see War Galleys as a standoff weapon to control harbours, especially the two key ports.  I'd love for, say, Mariner's Guild to have one for Thraasi, and one for Tasur'ke, to protect vessels coming into those ports to accept or complete trade deals.  But I've never even sailed one so I have no idea whether that's even really desirable.  It seems like it *should* be.  Going by Kinilan's post, the manpower reqs alone are fairly ridiculous.  Anyway, that's part of my dream for team white fleet.  

EDIT:  the plan would be that the Galleys would be crewed when a great trade deal came out, and then at scheduled times to allow people to complete deals, and obviously, team pirate wouldn't just sit there.

Kerria

for the love of all things holy, please no MORE pirates. 

I'll deal with the ones currently, but seriously not everyone wants ship combat.

Hirst

Melodie said:

Someone (I think maybe it's Delph's link earlier in this thread) talked about sea storms being a thing over chops. I loved that, and it'll make sea weather more of a thing too. Lots of ways to implement this, especially for the southern seas (hai Notia).

I'm really 50/50 on forceboarding. I think it had a lot of good intention originally, but as always, leaving things in the hands of the player to do "responsibly" never ends up very well. For every good interaction Hirst has, he has ten bad ones, both on and off the sea. I can't really speak of many others, but I do know my only two sinkings have been because I was forceboarded and slaughtered, and unfortunately it turns it into a PK thing. Even with Kross' idea, I hesitate to say it would make it a lot richer. If people can abuse it... they will.

I don't have a lot else to contribute right this moment, a lot of what has been on my mind for ships has already been very much mentioned here, which is great. Probably my only (biased) contribution would be "please bring back Neraeos so he can interact with people via whatever means on the sea to make it 10x more interesting, along with all the static changes hopefully to come". But, that's me being biased, and obviously I know you can't exactly code in a God.

Really looking forward to where ships go. I miss them having more of an interesting purpose!

I had to respond to this. So I'm expected to forceboard and what...sit there and do nothing? You are an enemy of Ashtan so no quarter has been shown or will ever be shown. But I guess that's bad interaction and spamming wavecall instantly and then being upset that it doesn't get you out of trouble doesn't. The pirates are out to make gold so one of the first things we do on boarding is NOT slaughter a crew because that doesn't get you gold. We order them to stop and begin discussions on payment. The slaughtering begins when they refuse to pay or take unreasonably long amounts of time. We allow plenty of time to interact and have a constructive RP experience.

As far as changes go...

1. Delete wavecall or have it max out at 5 rooms with a cooldown based on the distance last used. 3s per space traveled is fine. It is supposed to be for tactical movement, not a GTFO-for-free button. 95% of sailors I know/encounter spam this because its the only thing they've ever been taught. That should be a big red flag that the ability is broken.  If the ability is kept, add a 3rd party message.

2. Keep forceboarding, have a limit on the number of people that can follow the forceboarder, and require that the ships be grappled to initiate. How did ships in the 1700-1800s really go about capturing and sinking? They had to grapple and then forceboard. Its a sound means of interaction, just needs some tweaks. I remember the 6 ship sea battle with Targossas a while back and it ended quickly when Targossas boarded their entire CWHO onto the ships and forceboarded Kross with 12 people. Forceboard should max out at 2 people, maybe 3 (including the forceboarder proper).

3. Keep winds. People wouldn't be so upset that wavecall doesn't teleport them to immediate safety if they realized that a windcutter will outpace a strider going into the winds. People need to learn to use them. They add to the experience, making some travel directions faster than others, just like sailing was in the real world.

4. Fix shipreturn.  Lets admit it, it's broken. Shipreturn has become an overused means to portal to islands for increased hunting experience with the advent of bronze tokens.  I classleaded multiple solutions last time to address this.  Either require a high figurehead power cost per usage (5% is fair but only while docked so that way people can shipreturn to a ship at sea if they had to leave or whatnot) or limit the number of times you can shipreturn to an OUTER island to something like 3 before requiring that the ship move harbors entirely, not just dock and then re-dock.  Island hunting for the better experience should require people to put the effort into sailing there, not just sailing once and parking there indefinitely so you and anybody else who has shipreturn set can hunt without effort. Also, fix Pierce the Veil so you can't use it from outer island wilderness. Yes, its most likely an oversight or a bug but that doesn't stop people from abusing it.

5. Increase line-of-sight dramatically or add in a way for ships to begin to locate each other. Monks/BMs have fullsense and mindnet, why can't a specialized sailor?  I'm not saying anything about pinpointing exact locations but having an ability like Oceansense or Sonar or whatever you want to call it that comes with a steep figurehead price would make it easier for pirates to find others and others to know what is out there.  Give vague directions and alert others that a ping was sent out.

6. Add another weapons slot to a windcutter but make it come with a sacrifice.  Having an onager and the ability to disable sails or shoot star-shot would make them a lot more defensible. However, you could compensate for this by slowing the ship down. 1 weapon (arm) has no negative impact on cutter, having a second weapon sacrifices 1-3 kts. You could also increase the damage of wardiscs and make them something that a ship can use to deter pirates.

7. Fix dodging. Anybody with a reasonable amount of skill in Seafaring will dodge every shot, making wardisc envenoming useless and adding nothing to the star-shot/chain-shot fired. This would help ships of all sizes if the crew is actually being hurt by wardiscs fired around the place. Giving it something comparable to worldburn dmg. If a pirate crew is being shot up by wardiscs and hurting, they aren't going to be able to pursue a vessel without risk.

Kinilan

Could change warxiacs to be more of a dot like effect. if it "hits" it does reasonable damage over time and/or causes a slow down in crew handling. your ship turns slower moves slower repairs slower or something similar. a debilitating effect similar to spidershot but still unique.

Tohran

Kerria said:

for the love of all things holy, please no MORE pirates. 

I'll deal with the ones currently, but seriously not everyone wants ship combat.

As opposed to not MORE pirates, perhaps an improvement to faction with seafaring. We already have player created organisations (Pirates, and Mariner's Guild) so why not create an official standing with them? One could avoid MOST pirate attacks by flying a particular flag. Where as flying another flag, indicates you are willing and able to participate in a pirate attack. 

This does work in @Sarapis‌' thought a while back about a PvP flag. Though I'm sure he didn't mean it to be interpreted so literally. A particular trigger, or flag being flown would also allow for NPC pirate attacks, or perhaps NPC pirates could simply exist flat-out, with no permission from the player being needed. 

tl;dr: Make allegiance with seafaring an official thing like city or house, make NPC pirates, PvP flags should exist.

Bonko

NO PLEASE DON'T TAKE AWAY MY SAFEROOM! HOW WILL I SURVIVE?

Edit: Unless this change is making way for me to get my own city with unlimited gold/credits so I can put guards in every room and make every room non-prism.

Edit edit: In all seriousness though, I'm not sure why people being safe on ships is on your hit list. The cost of a ship is equivalent to buying a non-prism room. With the changes to ranged abilities, the only class that can even mess with you/has a chance of killing you in a non-prism house is monks. Are you going to delete non-prism rooms too then?

Lilian

yeah that's kind of my only problem with making ships not safe in harbour. I bought my ship orginaly cause it can double over as a house, on top of being able to do sea stuff. So I don't even own a plot of land or room/door credit, and any credits spent on that I'd rather well spend on expanding my cabin.

Blujixapug

If people want to afk, they'll afk. If they can't do it on a ship, they'll do it in a prism-proofed sub house, or go back to doing it in the newsroom or a journal.

Accipiter

Things I would like to see changed:

Remove the general wear and tear on hulls/sails, it does nothing when you just ship repair all every 5 minutes, give a cost in commodities like wood to repairing combat damage, possibly giving attacking ships the ability to pick up floatsam for damage done.

Give more crew commands so you don't feel like a total chump going out alone when there is any possibility of pirates. Having to climb mast to clear them removes the ability to use shipmeld abilities which means that 2 people on a ship is far more effective than twice a single person, having mates able to clear them at a significantly reduces rate would mean that you could atleast try to fight back when attacked on your lonesome. Ditto for firing weapons at much slower speeds.

Wind is an important thing, don't get rid of it, it adds so much flavour and strategy to the system, weather otherwise doesn't seem to do much besides increase hull wear so that could be scrapped IMO.

Ship return should have a couple of hour long cooldown on it, because legitimate uses of it should be covered by the endurance/willpower drain of tokens but Gare avoids that completely.

Helmsmen need the ability to order the crew to row, making the captain do it serves no purpose as far as I can see and is just an irritation when the helmsman is trying to sail in chops/into a harbour against the wind.

Flags should change the colour of a ship on the map, so that they have a real use rather than relying on shipwarning/scan to tell you about it.

Something needs to be done about the speed it takes to get anywhere, increasing rowing speed might help for the places against the wind but even with a 15kt wind at your back it takes forever to get anywhere.

Bearings should be in the main skill tree and maps be non-decay, atleast to some of the smaller islands out in the featureless ocean. Without going to a specific point and sailing straight from there I find it next to impossible to find clockwork for instance, and several others I can only find by recognizing chop patterns. While this is nice and realistic, bearings is vague enough that it won't make someone who doesn't know where they are going much closer to someone who does, it just means less time pacing the ocean trying to find those 20 squares out of 40 million you are looking for.

Something needs to be done with ship trades, I personally would like to see commodity shops removed/reduced and the ports be given them, with ports only selling to landsmen when they have a glut of commodities and selling to ship traders otherwise, but that is a very poorly thought out idea.

I always feel like I am doing something wrong leaving my boat unattended while diving, and taking someone along to man it while I go diving seems like a very selfish thing to do, but I have no real ideas concerning that.

Kinilan

There is already a comms cost to repair weapon damage from misfires and enemy fire. There isn't a need to add to the cost of ship combat. Ammo, tears, comms for repairs. They all add up. Something that needs to be said about ship speeds and winds is that cutters the most popular ship type get less speed from the wind. That is part of the trade off for better turning and a lower price. In a strider you move much faster with the wind and galleys are freaking crazy fast.

Will

My thoughts on things;

• Don't delete wavecall. For some of the lesser skilled sailors, it is helpful in trying to weave around pirates. Majority of pirates I come up against are already either in dragonform or lv99+, so they have a large pool of endurance to suck from anyway. Instead of deleting it, like Hirst said just add a third person message, "A huge wave appears and CTN Inspiration is carried off to the northwest". Having it 5 rooms with perhaps a 30 second cooldown would be okay, because it really is a lifesaver, not just a spammed ability to get away. For example, my last encounter with Hirst, I must have come up against a trigger or something spammed because I'd disengage from grapple and then instantly get grappled again. Only way I escaped this was to chain SHIP DISENGAGE; INVOKE WAVECALL SOUTH 5, i'd just get grappled and then get sunk otherwise.

• The crew experience curve is incredibly slow. I've had a windcutter ship for about say 3 IG years, and been sailing pretty much every day when I can, and i'm still only at like ...the 3rd level. But then I guess this could tie in with these new proposed trade systems, would be useful to have increased rewards for the crew for completing, not just the captain.

• Wind needs to stay. When you're travelling south of Sea Lion Cove, and heading east, and use the wind to your advantage by going south a little more than just hugging the coast, little things like that are really useful. And when you're trying to escape a strider, the first thing you're taught about is to try and sail close into the wind as much as possible. Yes, the wind is annoying in those huge chop mazes but unfortunately that's something we gotta deal with. Most people I've seen have to take it slow throug there anyway, either cutting sails or just lowering the usage of them. I wouldn't be against cutting a bit of a more easier path through them, especially north of Umbrin to Ilyrean. Worst place ever.

• As for the need to change things for ships to be easier to use, I don't really see the need for this. Windcutters are easy to be managed solo, they get you from A to B quickly, but there's always that risk of pirates and so you're not gonna be able to clear the rigging and meld at the same time. Striders are designed to be crewed at all times by at least 3 people, and i think that kinda works as intended. I'd never take the Targossas strider out without others for example.  And on that note, I wouldn't really see the point of adding in more ships either, each city most likely has more than one windcutter, Targ has too many, most are drydocked right now. If people really wanted to get into seafaring, just go to your maritime minister, say you want in, and i'm sure they'd be excited to have someone who's genuinely interested. Bring in rubber dinghies or yachts and it makes it even more of a single player game, which we're trying to avoid here. 

• In terms of making ships less of an invulnerable fortress whilst docked, how would commscreen come into this? Docked and commscreen up, you're completely off the radar, so would this act as some kind of a gem of cloaking if docked ships are defined as being in the area? I can understand the idea of them being need to be changed, not quite sure what would work though. A random idea - get rid of boarding perms, so anyone can board, but only captains or crewed people can actually use the ship. People are gonna leave the gangplank down when they go off to do w/e but leave the gangplank up if they need to go AFK. Adds a little bit of danger to your ship, as you can't leave the ship without lowering the gangplank. Well...other than tokens and PTV, but potentially make them not usable whilst docked? Dunno, just an idea.  -

Actually ...nvm, terrible idea, I imagine people camping in other peoples ships and all that nonsense, yeah, no thanks

Jhaeli

While I'm not much of a sailor, an idea occurred to me while reading about changing specialisations and I thought I'd toss it out there for the more knowledgeable to discuss.

What about changing the specialisations to ROLES, and the ability to assume a role depends on your skill level in Seafaring? So, just as an example, you would need skilled for CAPTAIN and mythical for WEAPONS or whatever. Then, when you and your friend board the ship, you would have to ASSUME ROLE CAPTAIN to take on the command options while your friend could, say, ASSUME ROLE WEAPONS, etc. The role could then be "locked in" as long as the ship is sailing and you could only switch when you're either a) in a harbour or, optionally, b) when you're at a standstill.

This wouldn't mean you'd be cut off from necessary abilities, which should be moved to Seafaring regardless, and perhaps, after a reaching a high skill level, you could assume a secondary role as well, but it would keep the idea of the Specialisations (which is a great idea in and of itself, especially if you can get a group working together) without the limitations inherent in, say, Jules' situation where she's made it so she can't captain her own ship. This would allow people to both solo and group sail.

Kinilan

Kerria said:

for the love of all things holy, please no MORE pirates. 

I'll deal with the ones currently, but seriously not everyone wants ship combat.

You know there are only 4 active captains in the PoM? and two aren't all that active either. Almot has been said about the PoM being all over the place and how people are worried about being attacked but i is just Hirst and I plus crew out there in all the wide water. The chances of running into anyone let alone a pirate ship is pretty low right now.

Taraus

I find it mildly interesting the amount of reluctance that seems to exist for sailing because of pirating. Why? Because when you take into consideration the two largest factors -- 1) the "actual" cost of loss via sinking vs. the "perceived" cost, 2) the size of the threat itself (there are maybe four captains total right now who pirate, and two of them have been busy with other crap lately, myself among them), it really doesn't make sense. Nut up and go sailing;  you might be surprised at how okay you really are out there!

Regarding ship weapons: the arm definitely needs to be looked at. Right now, the major functionalities are a method of shooting the boarding deck, and acting as a flare gun -- because wardiscs are garbage (I don't have one on my 'strider, because cost doesn't justify it). If forceboarding gets reworked/deleted, that'd dimish the usefulness to a huge degree.

Regarding general ship equipment: increase the ability of and broaden the scope of what the sextant does and how it functions. Also, the beacon of Iocolas...? Wat? (Yes, I have one, and I'm STILL not even certain I know what it does.)

Oh, and swashbucklers. The annoyance and noise factor of that wandering group of guards has kept me from hiring any. Do... SOMETHING with these guys, because 4 swashies storming into a room huffing and grunting and then storming out is sort of, um, disruptive.

Dragonknight

The beacon of Iocolas changes the the room name of the harbour, on fleetsense, to the area of the harbour itself.

Edit: Which is useless because I just have a table with all the room names to change them to harbour names and echo it back anyways.

Kinilan

Dragonknight said:

The beacon of Iocolas changes the the room name of the harbour, on fleetsense, to the area of the harbour itself.

Edit: Which is useless because I just have a table with all the room names to change them to harbour names and echo it back anyways.

If you are on shore and use fleetsense a ship with a beacon will show you where that ship is relative to the nearest harbour instead of just telling you what sea or ocean it is on. But only if you are not on a ship when you use fleetsense.

Kerria

Kinilan said:

Kerria said:

for the love of all things holy, please no MORE pirates. 

I'll deal with the ones currently, but seriously not everyone wants ship combat.

You know there are only 4 active captains in the PoM? and two aren't all that active either. Almot has been said about the PoM being all over the place and how people are worried about being attacked but i is just Hirst and I plus crew out there in all the wide water. The chances of running into anyone let alone a pirate ship is pretty low right now.

Right now, yes, week from now... Maybe not so much. 

It is a threat, threats are silly like that. (Probably better words but lol painkillers) with the possibility and the occasional spike it makes those who spent lots of gold want to rage quit sailing. 

And for some reason this whole premise of "if there's no one to sink, maybe they'll stop"  seems to come up. 

I personally like having an option to get away, wave call has been dumbed down enough that unless you're really practiced, it's not going to help you much to get away from an experienced crew.

Leading to less people wanting to sail, and frankly less income generated for the game. (Theoretically, maybe they'll spend it in other areas) 

Fear is something that prevents people from doing things they might possibly like. You provide fear as pirates. 

I personally like the quiet alone time... And as much as I don't dislike other people, having a crew every time is hard (as you may be experiencing).

Upkeep is expensive, like the ship, and pirates.

I forgot where I was going with this.

Kinilan

By that logic Annwyn and UW shouldn't be open PK. No events should ever have a pk element and cities should be safe havens with the raid system removed. Ship vs ship mechanics pre-date seafaring as a skill. Anyone that bought a ship and invested lessons in seafaring only to be shocked to learn that they could be attacked has nobody to blame but themselves. The seas aren't safe. They were never meant to be.

Kazuya

Although to be fair, Annwyn and UW yield far better in terms of gold and experience than the seas.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet most ship owners bring in more gold from their normal mainland bashing routes (unless they find one of those sweet awesome ultra-rare trade deals that makes it actually worth your while).

I think perhaps the point coming across was that the risk/reward ratio doesn't seem favorable enough for the average sailor, and thus not as many ships sailing around.  Although most people can probably agree that ship combat could use some fixes and improvements in its own respect, there's likely a concern for the non-coms that these coming changes would benefit pirates too greatly, lowing that risk/reward ratio even further.  I'm all for changes for both sides but let's keep that in mind.

Side note: My ship log does work! Plz keep it working.

Sena

I agree that just the threat of pirates, even if there was only one active pirate in the entire game, can be reason enough to avoid seafaring entirely when you don't really lose much by avoiding seafaring. It's a tiny risk, but if there's not much to gain from facing that risk, a lot of people won't bother. The problem then isn't pirates, but the lack of rewards for seafaring that would give a good reason to deal with pirates.

Kinilan

One of the things we do in the Dread Navy is salvage ships. Not Ashtani ships that have been sunk, because nobody fucks with Ashtan, but old wrecks we find. We pull them up and look around to see what we can find. A sort of reverse diving system that works like salvaging could be interesting. Wrecks would be spawned randomly around the oceans giving a reason for people to look around in places off the the common routes. So you sail around you spot a wreck and raise it then you could board amd look for loot or fight mobs or tow it back to a harbour for some kind of payday or whatever. It would be something different to do and a reward for lookingxaround and under the current spec system a reason to be something other than command and watch or to sail with a crew that has abolitoes like salvage and forceboard and fireweapon along with an arm.

Oceana

That sort of salvaging (NPC wrecks) sounds interesting, but a salvage by a pirate after he/she sank a ship, simply to kill the crew again.... maybe that could be prevented. How about getting permission from the/a captain of the sunk ship to raise a ship from the depths?

Kross

Oceana said:

That sort of salvaging (NPC wrecks) sounds interesting, but a salvage by a pirate after he/she sank a ship, simply to kill the crew again.... maybe that could be prevented. How about getting permission from the/a captain of the sunk ship to raise a ship from the depths?

I'm not a pirate, but I will admit I've only ever seen someone sink a ship, raise it, then kill the crew maybe once - ever. If that's what they were doing, it's because they have a personal vendetta against you. Not just because they're a pirate. And ultimately, you have three pirates that truly "matter". (No offense). @Kinilan, @Taraus, and @Hirst are the only ones anyone is ever worried about.

When dealing with Ashtan's Dread navy specifically, we're not -allowed- to salvage/sink ships to kill off crew or what have you. I know a lot of people think Ashtan doesn't play by rules, but Kinilan runs a tight ship (lol, get it?).

Definitely think the NPC shipwreck idea is pretty sweet. Would endorse and love to see something like that implemented.