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Relics

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  • ShiroShiro Member Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I am not convinced that raiding to force them to bring out the artifacts would result in what you want. 


    If anything I figure it will make people more stubborn.

    Tohran
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    maybe!  hence, I made this topic.

    But it's all we've got :)

    image
  • SeragornSeragorn Member Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I agree, they should definitely reset on a relatively quick timer once you qq so they remain in circulation.  People will be a lot less likely to care about hoarding them if they're forced to be in harms way.

    Ashtan has barely used them in the group combat situations and if you look at the way they work they may be powerful but very hard to use.  As Jhui mentioned to use Earthshaker without crippling your own group you must be disconnected from them, and thus at high risk of being picked off and losing it.  The lifegiver relic defense (not sure if this is a bug or not) only works if you are in possession of the relic, thus giving a single person an additional starburst, hardly fearsome.

    As with all changes, once people fully understand the limitations and adapt to them, I cant imagine these things being the game changers that everyone is making them out to be.

    Just to clarify, we expected when Austere qq'd that the relic would reset, we intentionally gave it to him to test the theory, it was in no way a ploy to keep it.

    JhuiTohranKayeilValaria
  • TohranTohran Everywhere you don't want to be. I'm the anti-Visa!Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited July 2014
    Seragorn said:

    I agree, they should definitely reset on a relatively quick timer once you qq so they remain in circulation.  People will be a lot less likely to care about hoarding them if they're forced to be in harms way.

    Ashtan has barely used them in the group combat situations and if you look at the way they work they may be powerful but very hard to use.  As Jhui mentioned to use Earthshaker without crippling your own group you must be disconnected from them, and thus at high risk of being picked off and losing it.  The lifegiver relic defense (not sure if this is a bug or not) only works if you are in possession of the relic, thus giving a single person an additional starburst, hardly fearsome.

    As with all changes, once people fully understand the limitations and adapt to them, I cant imagine these things being the game changers that everyone is making them out to be.

    Just to clarify, we expected when Austere qq'd that the relic would reset, we intentionally gave it to him to test the theory, it was in no way a ploy to keep it.

    What kind of output does that braid have?

    I think taking the Open PK away, and adding a hard reset of 2-3 hours would make the relics a lot more enjoyable. Noone is going to want to walk around with these items while @Rangor‌ ; and the "goon squad" or @Jhui‌ and his "A-Team" are running around. Meaning they'll just sit in a city, not being used, just being hoarded away. 

    Pretty sure we're supposed to use these things, not just keep them to ourselves, because noone wants Ashtan to have MORE power. I have no interest in any of these things, except the Golden Braid thing, but that's because I'm saving up gold for LMS and credits to finally get a pair of bracelets.


    Bluef
  • MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I have yet to be to these dig sites yet. I know you access them from the wilderness, but do the dig sites count towards exploration?



    Bluef
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,798 Achaean staff

    They do not, no.
    Kayeil
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,397 Achaean staff

    I agree, Paincatcher is like.... 


    well I'd take my SoA over it any day. They're like mini-arties for people without arties.  

    Hmm, it's supposed to have the same damage-absorbing effect as an SoA PLUS the damage-reflecting property.

    KayeilValaria
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,397 Achaean staff
    Makarios said:

    They do not, no.

    However, the rooms you get to past the digsite do, as do the rooms at the start of the digsite. That's only 2 rooms total per digsite though.

  • MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarapis said:
    Makarios said:
    They do not, no.

    However, the rooms you get to past the digsite do, as do the rooms at the start of the digsite. That's only 2 rooms total per digsite though.

    Still rooms I need to get to eventually. Now I know I won't be dying in vain!



    SarapisYaeTohranAinia
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Rogues are so completely out of the loop on all of this. What digsites? What relics? Bleh, there goes a little more of my exploration ranking. :(

    Aluciana
  • MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Bluef said:

    Rogues are so completely out of the loop on all of this. What digsites? What relics? Bleh, there goes a little more of my exploration ranking. :(

    Just need to sneak over there when action is happening elsewhere!



  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Masaryk said:
    Bluef said:

    Rogues are so completely out of the loop on all of this. What digsites? What relics? Bleh, there goes a little more of my exploration ranking. :(

    Just need to sneak over there when action is happening elsewhere!

    Sneak over where? The problem for me is that other than the Events posting, which makes a vague reference to magma wyverns and cave ins, there is no IC information that would lead Bluef (or any rogue) toward knowing where this was, etc.

    It isn't like cities are giving up information easily either, so unless you want to metagame there's no way to access anything IC for some people. I think the relics themselves are cool but I'm disappointed that this is another city v. city thing lessening my opportunities for exploration.

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,798 Achaean staff

    Its probably worth noting that only two cities were told where any of the digsites were (the two that caused Yudhishthira to win the Reckoning). Everyone else is in exactly the same position as the rogues, completely on their own. The digsites also will stick around, so you will find them eventually, even if you have no part of the current stuff at all (intentionally or otherwise).
    MelodieYaeSherazadValariaBluef
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,603 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    PK is not tedium. It's the lifeblood of the game. Being able to find ans horde relics without danger or consequence would be lame. Pk free dig sites ensure that anyone who wants to participate needs to be on their toes, and that's hardly a bad thing. The body may be made stronger through conflict!

    ShirszaeAlrenaStrataVeldrinTohranAlucianaGreysSuladanValariaAlstonLucineNimHayte
  • VortokVortok Member Posts: 9 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited July 2014
    Bluef said:
    Masaryk said:
    Bluef said:

    Rogues are so completely out of the loop on all of this. What digsites? What relics? Bleh, there goes a little more of my exploration ranking. :(

    Just need to sneak over there when action is happening elsewhere!

    Sneak over where? The problem for me is that other than the Events posting, which makes a vague reference to magma wyverns and cave ins, there is no IC information that would lead Bluef (or any rogue) toward knowing where this was, etc.

    It isn't like cities are giving up information easily either, so unless you want to metagame there's no way to access anything IC for some people. I think the relics themselves are cool but I'm disappointed that this is another city v. city thing lessening my opportunities for exploration.

    I would suggest that this may be an effect of the explorer rankings often being a competition of who can get the highest rank and many deciding to be a bit antisocial about it and trying to hoard secret info (least that's how it seemed at high ranks back in the day).

    If it was closer to being a fellowship (as the ingame name might suggest) of people who simply want to see more of the world as it unfolds piece by piece, and thus share with each other, then the concern about lack of info would likely resolve itself naturally.

    So I feel that it's a player problem (that players can solve) rather than an issue of org membership.

    That's how I see it, anyway.

    Bluef
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Aegoth said:

    PK is not tedium. It's the lifeblood of the game. Being able to find ans horde relics without danger or consequence would be lame. Pk free dig sites ensure that anyone who wants to participate needs to be on their toes, and that's hardly a bad thing. The body may be made stronger through conflict!

    Clearly you haven't been fighting in the digsites. Merely holding a relic makes you free pk, so where are you coming from with "no danger or consequence"? Pk free dig sites are horrible because of how easy it is to camp the entrance with a totem, how easy it is to radiance people, and how easy it is to just get entrenched. Yes, you could say that's rectified when the tunnels collapse and everyone has to leave or die, but that's still a very tedious way to do it.

    Sometimes, non-pk competitions can be fun too as it gives everyone a fair chance. Marks can still kill each other and the infamous, and you're still free pk as soon as you pick up the relic.

    As a sidenote, it would have been nice to give us a heads up beyond "bring allies" that it'd be free pk. An announce post while we're already digging meant we got wiped without knowing what the heck was going on.

    image
  • DunnDunn The great Buffalo tundraMember, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,062 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Sites being open PK is fine and fun. An added layer of 'holy fuck' in the already liberally glazed realm of 'holy shit' occupied by those cave ins.



    TohranJhuiAlucianaShirszaeAlston
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Alrena said:
    Aegoth said:

    PK is not tedium. It's the lifeblood of the game. Being able to find ans horde relics without danger or consequence would be lame. Pk free dig sites ensure that anyone who wants to participate needs to be on their toes, and that's hardly a bad thing. The body may be made stronger through conflict!

    ...

    Sometimes, non-pk competitions can be fun too as it [gives us a chance to grab the relic, earring out of the dig site, and then quickly return to Barracks of the Eleusian Rangers and WRITE JOURNAL for 12 hours, because] you're still free pk as soon as you pick up the relic [- thus it's not fair there's a possibility we might get PK'd while trying to dig them up.]

    fixed.

    image
    AlrenaAegothShirszaeKyrra
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,825 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    to me it seems like this event is pushing for more grouping up and group coordination. The digsites and relic holders being open PK just make it so that you should have a fairly sizeable group if you want to get involved there. Sure the Braid is more of a solo item for bashing, but you'll still get ganged 3 or 4 deep for it (hi @Iakimen‌ )

    The direction is a good one, I think.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Aegoth
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Strata said:
    Alrena said:
    Aegoth said:

    PK is not tedium. It's the lifeblood of the game. Being able to find ans horde relics without danger or consequence would be lame. Pk free dig sites ensure that anyone who wants to participate needs to be on their toes, and that's hardly a bad thing. The body may be made stronger through conflict!

    ...

    Sometimes, non-pk competitions can be fun too as it [gives us a chance to grab the relic, earring out of the dig site, and then quickly return to Barracks of the Eleusian Rangers and WRITE JOURNAL for 12 hours, because] you're still free pk as soon as you pick up the relic [- thus it's not fair there's a possibility we might get PK'd while trying to dig them up.]

    fixed.

    It's funny that your 'fix' is full of mistakes. Digsite is a different plane, can't earring out of it, only if both are inside. 

    The objection with the digsite being open pk because it's very boring, frustrating conflict where one side can way too easily dig in. If I was afraid of being PK'd, I wouldn't have been out bashing and fighting back (and losing) when @Dunn and @Nemutaur came to get me. 

    image
    Exelethril
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
    Alrena said:

    The objection with the digsite being open pk because it's very boring, frustrating conflict where one side can way too easily dig in. 

    I get it.

    StrataSynbiosTohranKyrra
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,603 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    All this complaining about digsites being open pk just sounds like childish "waah but we want to WIN!!!!" whining. If you want to "win" then earn it. It's not like Eleusis completely lacks combatants.

    Also, hording relics on people who are QQing from the game just punctuates this point. First Alrena, now Melodie. Love you Mel, but you're better than that :/

    StrataAlrenaMelodieAlstonKyrra
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Yea I'm not trying to be factual here. It's all about having fun. If hoarding the relics and lobbying on forums for less PK and other subtle things that will allow you to more easily hoard them in the future is fun for you, then that's what matters.

    image
    Jhui
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    Aegoth said:

    All this complaining about digsites being open pk just sounds like childish "waah but we want to WIN!!!!" whining. If you want to "win" then earn it. It's not like Eleusis completely lacks combatants.

    Also, hording relics on people who are QQing from the game just punctuates this point. First Alrena, now Melodie. Love you Mel, but you're better than that :/

    This is the problem we had in rants. People assume things that are plain wrong out of some superiority complex. It's not about wanting to win, it's about having fun. Some people liked the mini-game of digging around, but if you seriously can't understand the problem of someone radiancing deep in an unmapped maze where every room is one of two possibilities.

    As for QQ'ing with them, the alternative is holding on to them and sitting on Gatehouse/Battlements all the time. We -have- been using the relics, but why the hell should we have someone sit on them the entire time and forcing them to stay put? 

    Eleusis "earned" the majority of those relics by killing the Ashtani holding them. They've changed hands plenty, and they'll continue to do so, so stop whining about us "hoarding" them when we're just holding them until we want to use them. You're making some big assumptions from someone who's not even remotely involved in this whole relic business.

    image
    AegothMelodie
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