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  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eiredhel said:
    Lyndee said:
    Gotta be honest, I consider myself a oretty optimistic person. But...giving the Achaean community the ability to band together to WTF someone's posts into deletion sounds like a truly TERRIBLE idea that will only foster a more toxic environment, not less.

    I was referencing only when the administrators decide to delete posts for people who go to far. Instead of all of them it'd be only the abused and wtf'd ones. Sarapis says it isn't an option so it's fine to me. 

    I was merely suggesting that the wtf and a use options be used as a deletion guideline. 


    But yes, the options are limited. And people can be buttheads. :)

    I thought the point was for admins to have to do less work not more. They do have a game to run.

  • FrizticFriztic Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    If the problem is so bad that the admins are literally getting together and having a pow-wow about it, then some things have gotten out of hand. Just like you can be ex-commed in game, which I have never had a problem with, you can lose your forum privileges by screwing over your "faction". In this case, the faction is everyone, counting anyone, including admins. Personally, I care a lot more about their hurt feelings than somebody who is wondering why this thread started getting wonky (in the case of posts being retroactively deleted). In fact, I'd go so far as to say that deleting all of somebody's posts because they stepped over the line is perfectly acceptable. You get what you pay for, folks, and nobody here owes you anything, especially the admins.

    The line is there, and it is in pretty clear black and white. Try not to act like the admins are any less a part of our community, and realize that the rules are for everyone, not just so THEY can keep YOU in line. They don't have to notify you that they've done it, either, nor should they, because that is saying that this toxic person who has stepped on the feelings of others deserves some kind of privilege that they have, by the rules, left at the wayside when they decided to be an asshole. This isn't a court of law, folks, and nobody deserves a trial before punishment here. There's only one golden rule: Don't be a jerk. It mystifies me how people can misconstrue that, much less jump to the defense of the careless when they do.

    SarapisShirszaeSherazadHavynKorbenSylvance
  • EiredhelEiredhel CaliforniaMember Posts: 602
    Achimrst said:
    Eiredhel said:
    Lyndee said:
    Gotta be honest, I consider myself a oretty optimistic person. But...giving the Achaean community the ability to band together to WTF someone's posts into deletion sounds like a truly TERRIBLE idea that will only foster a more toxic environment, not less.

    I was referencing only when the administrators decide to delete posts for people who go to far. Instead of all of them it'd be only the abused and wtf'd ones. Sarapis says it isn't an option so it's fine to me. 

    I was merely suggesting that the wtf and a use options be used as a deletion guideline. 


    But yes, the options are limited. And people can be buttheads. :)

    I thought the point was for admins to have to do less work not more. They do have a game to run.

    If the forums had the capability it'd be as simple as matching posts that meet a certain criteria and they would show up on the docket to allow the mod in question to simply select all or merely tick off say ten of twenty and click delete. 

    Different forums do different things. Though the forums I moderated were developed by individuals by hand, so we had a lot more options in terms of adding features as the need arises. I've never worked with Vanilla which is why I made the suggestion.  

    And @Cooper switching isn't an easy choice to make as transferring things correctly and making sure all the stuff the general public can't see stays that way.. It takes time. All forums and community portals have pros and cons and widely varying price ranges. It'd probably be easier for you to look up potential alternatives and suggest them if you haven't already. 


    Just my two cents and spare change.  

    Meow, meow, etc. 
    Eiredhel's Family Tree

    Achimrst
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Sarapis said:
    Those aren't options. The option is to either go one by one and remove posts or just hit one command and troll someone. Given that old posts are rarely actually read, it's pretty easy to see what the right choice is in terms of admin time.

    I read old posts -constantly- but generally there old formulas on damage/breaking that have been posted on the forums that people generally don't want anyone else to know about.

    NimAchimrst
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff

    Cooper said:

    Or you could just ban them from posting, and remove any truly bad post that caused the ban. No need to remove every post ever.


    The "that isn't possible" reason is getting old - if this forum host is truly so bad that you can't automatically remove negative posts (they are already auto-buried), or stop someone from posting without removing their posts, or just remove posts from a certain time then we're long past due for a forum host switch.

    You really don't like to post things with a good signal to noise ratio do you?


    CooperJhuiAntidasNellaundraErnamShirszaeTohranKresslackSantarSylvance
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,125 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Sarapis Could I suggest simply old-school banning people? I know that trolling them sounds appealing but... It seems to me that by simply banning them everyone wins, as it is not a particularly lengthy process, while simultanously whatever good posts the person might have had in the past are preserved.


    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    EiredhelSherazad
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,978 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    That's fine, the admin in charge of the 'no trolling, people are going to get harsh bans' is free to insult and troll people instead of respond to the points brought up.


    SantarSylvance
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I'm also constantly reading old threads. There's a lot of very valuable and helpful information, and many of those insightful, helpful, on-topic posts were posted by people who I could easily see getting banned/troll-flagged someday. Especially if I was looking for combat logs.

    ShirszaeSherazadFirien
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    And Cooper has just earned himself the ban he's been requesting! Not terribly surprising, including to himself I'd imagine.

    AntidasTohranJovoloKresslackKuruvarSantarFendoSylvance
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff

    Caladbolg said:

    Sarapis said:
    Those aren't options. The option is to either go one by one and remove posts or just hit one command and troll someone. Given that old posts are rarely actually read, it's pretty easy to see what the right choice is in terms of admin time.

    I read old posts -constantly- but generally there old formulas on damage/breaking that have been posted on the forums that people generally don't want anyone else to know about.

    You might, but it is very rare. The numbers don't really lie there. 

  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,542 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2014
    Kafziel said:

    In light of this thread I wanted to formally apologise to Relos and Vesence, the only two people I have been a jerk to, ever.

    Would never apologise to Relos.

    ETA: I don't see a need for deleting old posts at all, honestly. Delete them as they happen, sure, but there's no need to retroactively go through and fix what happened in the past. It's enough that people won't be able to post in the future - nobody in Achaea should be so sensitive as to not want to be exposed to somebody's insults from last week.

    It was really jarring catching up on a thread after a few days with half the content removed indiscriminately, though.


    SherazadShirszaeTrilliana
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Those aren't options. The option is to either go one by one and remove posts or just hit one command and troll someone. Given that old posts are rarely actually read, it's pretty easy to see what the right choice is in terms of admin time.

    I assume it's the one where you don't troll people, because trolling people is kind of a jerk move, and this entire topic is about trying to get people to not be jerks.

    I humbly request a silver, blue, or green star rather than a gold star. Red is also OK I guess. Nothing against gold stars, I just like pretty colors and variety. :3

  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean

    AchimrstRomSylvance
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Why do people keep using the word "indiscriminately"?  Nobody is doing anything indiscriminately here.  Sure, a person's old posts disappear (temporarily), but only if they make it clear they're interested in repeatedly breaking forum rule #1.  I would not call that indiscriminate, at all.

    The approach that the admins are using is being used for several reasons which have all been thoroughly explained, and seem entirely reasonable.  I don't think people are thoroughly considering the implications of some of the suggested alternatives (even though they were described by @Sarapis and others).

    And at the end of the day, I think Sarapis' goal here is to to not have to ban anybody, anyways.  He, and probably many other people, just want to see the forums go in a less griefy direction than it has been going for a long time, and are staging an intervention.  Once people get it through their heads that insults and attacks are no longer acceptable, and stop doing it, it will cease to be an issue.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        CaladbolgShirszaeJovoloSherazadFrizticHaldonFlorentinoSilasJhaeli
      1. JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        It would be so nice if people realized that insults, attacks, and blatant lies to defame weren't acceptable.

        image
        Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

        MithridatesAntidasCaladbolgShirszaeDraqoomErnamJovoloKyrraDaeirJacenFrizticFlorentinoSilasDaslinHasar
      2. MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean

        Mirror

      3. JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Quotes or goats Mithridates, quotes or goats.

        image
        Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

        Draqoom
      4. MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
        edited June 2014
        ^ You're a pretty big bullshitter, liar, etc. You're just more popular, so you get away with it.  
        Unlike poor Ernam, who can post something legitimate and everyone dogpiles him. Essentially, these forums are a popularity contest/Frozen discussion group. 

        ShirszaeKyrraSherazadJacenRuthSaevaHaldonDaeirAntidasJhuiSylvance
      5. DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Fundamentally, we all have a choice as to whether we spend our time posting on these forums or not. At the end of the day, everyone has to make that choice as to whether the atmosphere here is suitable for them or not - both from a community perspective, and from a moderation perspective as well.

        Some people may be following Strata out the door, while others may be relieved that the administration are finally starting to crack down on this sort of thing.

        Take it or leave it is the term of the day, and I don't think that anything more on the issue really needs to be said.

        ErnamHeroseJhaeliSylvance
      6. DraqoomDraqoom CyreneMember Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

        You guys are hilarious. The people whining about the Admins banning people and slinging insults at them need to put things into a different perspective. This is their game, you are playing it. Think of them as your parents and you their children. If your mother/father said 'Stop hitting your god damned sibling!' and you was like 'But you hit them!' they'd backhand your ass back to Kindergarten. Same situation here. If you can't be civilized, you're going to get banned. It's not a hard concept to understand and likewise if you think it's a smart idea or lulzy or clever to throw insults at the people that run this game you're not doing anything for yourself but speeding up the process.

        image

        ErnamAchimrstTohranSylvance
      7. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

        Rule stipulation 1.03005 states:  "Being a jerk" does not count if one uses sarcasm, metaphor, or flimsy hypotheticals to mask jabs at people.


        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
            Achimrst
          1. JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean

            Alright, so while you enjoy attacking me for doing those things, you still provided zero quotes. I've provided multiple quotes in the past of Ernam blatantly lying about my character's actions and what I've said.

            You're pretty hilarious angry at me, which is fine, but lying about what I do is silly. Yes, I'm sarcastic regularly, but I also constantly provide ideas for conflict balance and suggestions to help improve morale for your team. In fact, the last time I posted a constructive "Way you can improve morale during raids" post, you were the target, and one of the people I was talking about who gets verbally crapped on by raid leadership thanked me.

            Maybe once you cool down (from what I don't know, I haven't even killed you today) you'll be able to be constructive.

            image
            Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

            ShirszaeBluefSherazadTharvis
          2. MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean

            Yes, my anger stems on your ability to lean on a snipe alias, lol. One thing you lied about right there, I'm not mad at you. I'm just saying that you're a BSer, you're generally negative, etc. I don't need to back myself up on that, because that's the way I perceive you. Not gonna spend my night digging through old forum posts, I've got better things to do. Like maybe take a shit, or clip my toenails. 

            Sylvance
          3. JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
            edited June 2014
            Draqoom said:
            Jarrod said:

            Alright, so while you enjoy attacking me for doing those things, you still provided zero quotes. I've provided multiple quotes in the past of Ernam blatantly lying about my character's actions and what I've said.

            You're pretty hilarious angry at me, which is fine, but lying about what I do is silly. Yes, I'm sarcastic regularly, but I also constantly provide ideas for conflict balance and suggestions to help improve morale for your team. In fact, the last time I posted a constructive "Way you can improve morale during raids" post, you were the target, and one of the people I was talking about who gets verbally crapped on by raid leadership thanked me.

            Maybe once you cool down (from what I don't know, I haven't even killed you today) you'll be able to be constructive.

            Hey Jarrod? Can you please post something different than 'Ernam is lying again'? It's getting pretty redundant and boring.

            I honestly think he should stop posting in general, outside of things like updates for SLC (which seems like a legitimately good system, I even said so in that thread). He regularly puts himself into situations where he's in the wrong, then accuses others of attacking him when they point out the issues with what he said. Even when Vastar posted with, "If you think this only applies to others, it may apply to you as well" (didn't look up direct quote), to which Ernam still ignored the fact that he's a culprit, and not a victim. If he stopped commenting in other threads and putting himself into those situations that he instigates, and continued providing a service to the community like his system, people would stop disliking him.

            Yes, my anger stems on your ability to lean on a snipe alias, lol. One thing you lied about right there, I'm not mad at you. I'm just saying that you're a BSer, you're generally negative, etc. I don't need to back myself up on that, because that's the way I perceive you. Not gonna spend my night digging through old forum posts, I've got better things to do. Like maybe take a shit, or clip my toenails. 

            You certainly seem mad when you posted purely to be overly insulting to me. If you're not mad, and that's just how you are, I'm not sure if that's worse or better. I know that's how you perceive me, so I don't really care about how you view me, it's not something I can change, I accept that. The point of asking for quotes was because I'm generally not negative at all, and you not being willing to provide any shows you don't care about whether it's true or not.


            image
            Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

            ShirszaeKresslack
          This discussion has been closed.