Self Limb Counter

Wessux

Also, please don't think I'm criticizing your work. From what little I can see it looks fantastic. It's just a feature I wouldn't want and I'm explaining what Cooper's point was about auto applying to torso. Reverse limb counters are the shit, and it's the last missing piece to my defense so this is a great thing. 

Mithridates

I'm thinking that you don't understand what he's saying.  It doesn't just trigger to apply restoration when it counts to a certain number, it adds it to SVO's affliction list, and gets cured according to the priority it has on your list. 

Iocun

Wessux said:

I won't break down the strategies, but in short, torso is not a "need to fix at every chance" break. You fix it when you have an opportunity. Torso damage doesn't hinder you and doesn't help them until they go for certain setups.

The same is usually true for head damage as well, and in many situations even arm damage. I'd say that in average, torso is a more critical break than head.

In fact, most afflictions are relatively harmless on their own in most circumstances (of course there's no doubt that losing restoration balance is generally a bigger deal than losing herb/smoke/focus balance).

Wessux

I fully understand that, but I'm not arguing the point anymore. It's all good, I said my peace, I backed up @Cooper, I'm good. System looks great and if it can be taken apart then I may go hunting and earn some credits @Enram. I'll shoot you a message if I do. 

Ernam

I just put in a simple 'chelp' command to make things easier when starting out.  (don't be intimidated, it's an extremely simple system to use)

Here's what it looks like as of now.

I've had a lot of people give me feedback that they really like simply turning off the output and leaving on the torso break recognition and prep warning capability.  To do this, simply set "display" setting to "off".  Everything else still works normally.  Keep in mind you can add the @slc tag to your SVO custom prompt if you like.

For coders / GUI enthusiasts, both display format functions work by returning a string (cecho format), which could easily be echoed to a mini window or sub window.

@Wessux you guys seem to be arguing against prioritizing torso over other limbs and/or the practice of immediately curing torso when it breaks.  I am in no way saying that this is always the best way to do things, and SLC does not in any way cause you to cure any different than you would if you diagnosed after a limb break with your current system setup.  The only difference is that you now do not have to diagnose.

Furthermore, there is a lot of functionality to the system than just torso breaks.  It also allows you to reference SLC's limb damage table to determine at any given moment if you should swap priorities or use a defensive ability (like shield) based on your current prep status.  Used properly, this system would make it essentially impossible to vivisect, DSB, BBT, bladetwist, Heartseed, or AXK you for a kill.

Keep in mind, all it does is track.  YOUR system does the curing.

Cooper

> @Mithridates said:
> I'm thinking that you don't understand what he's saying.  It doesn't just trigger to apply restoration when it counts to a certain number, it adds it to SVO's affliction list, and gets cured according to the priority it has on your list. 
I understand perfectly what he's saying, you just doesn't understand me.

Let's say on fighting someone as a monk. I prep Al their limbs but break torso really. Ernams counter catches that after a second and starts to cure it because you have no other salve afflictions. Now I'm free to break your legs and I'm going to get an extra bbt off that guarantees your death.

After he clarified that you could configure it not to tell svo your torso broke it was fine, but that wasn't outlined at first and his logs show the exact opposite of what he was saying at first.

Ernam

@Cooper in the scenario in the log I posted, I only had one leg prepped.

Are you saying you could kill me with a single leg/torso prep, if I cured torso first??

I posted about a page ago a very similar example.  I think you should read it.

Cooper said:

Let's say on fighting someone as a monk. I prep Al their limbs but break torso really. Ernams counter catches that after a second and starts to cure it because you have no other salve afflictions. 

My counter is a counter, not a curing system.  All my counter (optionally*) does is tell your system that your torso is broken.  ** yes, I said optionally.  You can simply turn this off if you want.

Here's a simple example I made on the fly of what I'm saying:

if slc.percentages["right leg"] > 90 and slc.percentages["left leg"] > 90 then
     send("curing priority mildtrauma 26")
     flag = true
end


if slc.percentages["right leg"] <80 and slc.percentages["left leg"] <80 and flag == true then
    send("curing priority mildtrauma ###")
    flag = false
end

Iocun

* mutters something about non-torso breaks being quite the same once more *

Mithridates

Cooper said:

> @Mithridates said:
> I'm thinking that you don't understand what he's saying.  It doesn't just trigger to apply restoration when it counts to a certain number, it adds it to SVO's affliction list, and gets cured according to the priority it has on your list. 
I understand perfectly what he's saying, you just doesn't understand me.

Let's say on fighting someone as a monk. I prep Al their limbs but break torso really. Ernams counter catches that after a second and starts to cure it because you have no other salve afflictions. Now I'm free to break your legs and I'm going to get an extra bbt off that guarantees your death.

After he clarified that you could configure it not to tell svo your torso broke it was fine, but that wasn't outlined at first and his logs show the exact opposite of what he was saying at first.

Tumble (direction) can help that. 

Ernam

@Cooper is right that applying to torso first is a bad move in many cases.  He's wrong that my system makes you do this, at all.  However, it will (if enabled) cause you to cure torso first if you don't set up YOUR system to do otherwise, and it happens to be the first limb to break.  This is -not- the case without a tracker.

I can only stress that this is on the user to implement correctly.  However, even if it isn't, you'll survive thanks to the torso being cured far more often than you'll die (if ever) due to it being cured first.  You'll never die to it if you set your system up right.

Iocun

Or touch shield.

Kross

@Ernam

Well done on this. Just looking at it from the pictures you logged, it looks useful in the way Rangor mentioned, of knowing -roughly- how far along in the prepping process you are. 

As far as torso damage goes, there are much simpler ways of knowing when your torso breaks, as it's not completely hidden. I don't want to hand the information out, necessarily, but if anyone would like to learn of it in character, feel free to contact me. 

Not to detract from the work you've done, it's impressive. I agree, though, that 50cr is a bit silly price for something like this. 

Ernam

if [both legs are prepped] and [torso gets broken] and [fight monk] then

   [ icewall tumble | touch shield | move | reflect | hangedman(or whatever) | auto-earring to Jarrod who is AFK at ramparts]

end

bolded are two things that are only possible (automatically) with an accurate limb tracker. (like SLC!)

italicized is for approx. half of the citizens of Ashtan.

Ernam

@Kross I'm not "charging" 50cr.  I'm asking for 50cr donation because I think that's what my time is worth, and I think that is more than worth it compared to the relative value of some arties out there (350 to see through a portal ).  I've told every person the same thing: Try it out, give me what you think it's worth, once you see it work for you.

And yeah, there are several symptoms of mild (and severe) trauma.  I left two of them out to prevent illusion abuse, as so far, it does just fine just tracking attacks (it's pretty darn close to 100% accurate after first limb break).

People seem really happy so far.  Also, I wouldn't use the system myself if it wasn't hella awesome.

Jarrod

You really need to stop being so obsessed with me, it's pretty creepy.

Nice work on the counter though.

Mithridates

He's right though

Jarrod

I have either the least or the second least earrings of our group right now, I'm being a terrible artiewhore

Mithridates

For shame

Jovolo

If you have to pay fifty credits to get the program then it's not just a donation is it? That's charging people man! It's yours to dish out tho, charge whatever the fuck you like for it. Don't see why anyone would complain.

Show bleeding is an op command just to add

Iocun

Yeah, I always wondered why that even existed.

Ernam

Iocun said:

Yeah, I always wondered why that even existed.

Because before it existed, people were spamming Score/Stat. to check bleeding.

Kross

Ernam said:

Iocun said:

Yeah, I always wondered why that even existed.

Because before it existed, people were spamming Score/Stat. to check bleeding.

Nevermind, misread above.

Iocun

Ernam said:

Iocun said:

Yeah, I always wondered why that even existed.

Because before it existed, people were spamming Score/Stat. to check bleeding.

Well, to be precise my question isn't why that exact command exists (as a separate SHOW command exists for pretty much every part of score/stat), but rather why it's listed in STAT. I'm pretty sure that hasn't always been the case, but only started a few years ago, at most.

Antonius

No idea if SHOW BLEEDING existed back then, but bleeding was on STAT for as long as I can remember; the last seven or eight years, at the least.

Ernam

@Iocun I kinda figured that was what you meant, but you'd have to ask IRE.  I'm digging deep here, but I'm pretty sure showing bleeding in stat outdates limb damage causing bleeding in the first place, as well as "hidden" torso damage.  So using bleeding to diagnose trauma was kindof unintended.  Personally, I think they should have removed all way "free" bleeding checks when they removed the affliction line from torso damage, but at the time, I don't think anybody made the connection that it could be used for a symptom.  Would have made a nice classlead.

It's also not a very good check for trauma IMO because it's too easy to illusion bleeding after a torso hit to trick a tracker.  At the most I'd highlight it.  

edit:  On second thought, you could just check it twice at a time, as anti-illusion.  Implementing =P.

Antonius

I don't recall torso damage ever having an affliction line, it just wasn't good for all that much so you could essentially ignore it.

Ernam

On another note, big thanks to all of the people providing feedback (both on forums and for all the people using the system).

Iocun

Yeah, I don't remember it ever having an affliction line either (although that may have been the case "before my time"), nor a time when torso damage didn't cause bleeding. I think essentially, bleeding was all torso damage did for a really long time.

Seems I've been mistaken about the stat line in any case. Apparently I never looked at STAT thoroughly enough back then!

Aktillum

Never knew about SHOW BLEEDING, I always just used Diag to check for torso damage.

Great counter by Ernam for the record, if nobody has tried it yet. For my little netbook screen, putting it on my prompt makes things nice and tidy. Eventually I'll figure out how to put it in a box / window.

Ernam

Iocun said:

Yeah, I don't remember it ever having an affliction line either

Maybe it never did, but it doesn't really matter.  One more thing one my list of things to classlead next round (already up to about 25 things)

My suggestion (tentatively) is to get rid of show bleeding and bleeding in Stat, and make an ability in survival that uses 1 second eq to check bleeding (requires eq to use).  The primary reason for this suggested change is to get rid of the free check on torso breaks.  That's a discussion for a different thread though.