Self Limb Counter

edited May 2014 in North of Thera

I have finished polishing off a limb counter for your own limb damage, with several relatively unheardof features, that I think many people might be interested in.

There were four design goals, all of which have been met:

  1. Catch torso breaks and inform curing system of them, to be cured in correct sequence.
  2. Keep you updated on the status of your limb damage, and warn when each limb is prepped to break.
  3. Display this output in a very easily read, non-spammy format.
  4. Work against all forms of limb damage.

Here are some features of the system:

  1. Multiple output format options, all of which can be used in prompt, on a newline, or in a separate window.  (See examples 4 and 5)
  2. Informs both server curing and/or SVO that your torso is broken.  Does NOT simply manual torso salves.
  3. Adapts to a fight - assumes a known value for each type of attack, but adapts by not only correcting previous data, but retroactively catching otherwise uncaught torso breaks.  (See examples 4 and 5)
  4. Output can be completely disabled if desired, while still retaining Limb prep warning and/or Torso break recognition operability.

I would like to offer this up for distribution for donations of ~50 credits.  It did take me quite some time to perfect, and I think it's going to positively impact combat for a -lot- of people.  Of course, I will be continuously tweaking the script and providing free updates indefinitely, including any potential suggestions for improvements or bug fixes.

Here are some demonstrations of the system in action:

Example 1 - Normal example of catching a torso break from Rend
Example 2 - Normal example of catching a torso break from Smite
Example 3 - Normal example of catching a torso break from DSL
Example 4  - Retroactive catch of torso break from Paladin (long format)
Example 5 - Retroactive catch of torso break from Paladin (short format)

Example 6 - Catching torso breaks from monk.***
Example 7 - Catching torso break in a Tekura combo. ***

*** I'm still working on a more reliable damage calculation for blademaster, and am in the process of tweaking the monk damage tracker for increased accuracy (Knuckles/armbands/stances make things tricky).  Currently reasonably functional for monk, not to worry.



  • edited May 2014

    I'll generate a readme with instructions, but in the meantime, here's the gist of it:

    c              - displays your current limb damage (default is long format)
    cres         - resets your limb damage and attack types to default values
    cset <attack> <#>  - set an attack type (like DSL) to take # hits to break.
    Example: cset rend 5       cset dsl 17

    important functions:
    SLC_init()   - run this on login - or it won't work
    SLC_reset()  - this has all the default values in it, such as attack types, and display format option (long|short)
        - requires a cres (reset) after changes are made

    Everything is open source - feel free to provide feedback or change things (like the aliases) as much as you like - but remember, if you make changes, they'll get overwritten by updates.

  • Also, you can use the @slc tag to add the short output format to your SVO custom prompt.

  • I'm not a big fan of settings files and UI's.  The system settings are all found in the Variables function (under Functions tab, in the Self Limb Counter folder).

    I'm adding more and more as feedback comes in.  Both Server curing and SVO interfaces are enabled by default, but can be adjusted in the Variables function.

  • Here's another log, with all display options simply disabled, but still functioning in the background. (catching torso breaks automatically)

  • edited May 2014
    Just for clarification, that green (0/0/0/0/0/9) is my offensive limb counter for Tekura.  SLC is entirely invisible in this mode.

  • edited May 2014

    Up to about 10 people using so far, with a few good updates coming in the next few days. (including using damage as a check for illusions)

    Regarding the credit price / donation - it is more or less optional for lowbie players.  If you're an artied fighter, it's more than worth 50cr, if you're just getting into combat, just talk to me in game or PM me.

  • edited May 2014

    Damage checking is now working fine, meaning any and all illusions of limb damage are completely ignored. (Thornrend and Dragon Rend being the main concerns here).

  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga
    edited May 2014
    Would pay 15cr at most. Not because its not good or anything, but because I can find a programmer willing to do it for about that price. Just have to request it and wait.

    It's sounds awesome though so excellent work making it man.

    Edit: I'm also a cheap bastard.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • edited May 2014

    The trigger coding to handle reflections, various affliction lines, parrying/guarding, illusions, etc makes it far more complex than it would seem at face value.  Anybody can count to 4, but it does -far- more than that.

    But, like any system, it doesn't do anything that a really talented person couldn't do.  It just does it much faster, and with significantly less chance of error.

    I like to think of it as a: "Gem of [You can see torso breaks now]" artefact.  Or sawbones, that can be used on yourself, that doesn't have annoying damage ranges, and doesn't eat up a trait.   :#

  • edited May 2014
    Implemented optional "hits" mode - which displays number of hits (vadi-counter style) instead of damage percentages.  I don't prefer it, but someone might.

  • In all of your examples except the Paladin one, your complex self limb counter that applies restoration for you would have gotten you killed in a real fight. Auto-applying restoration to torso is a terrible, terrible idea that people can abuse very easily.

    Also, you're charging 10 times too much for it. You think your stuff is complex? You can get all of SVO for 60cr, or 30 if you already have one version. Vadi has put in hundreds of hours into that.

  • edited May 2014

    I was wondering how long it'd take you, Cooper.  

    Also, Just updated to differentiate between Tekura punches/kicks correctly, as promised.  Works like a charm.

    Also, Cooper is wrong.  To elaborate -  my system -never- forces any cures whatsoever.  It simply tells your system (SVO/Server) that you have a broken torso.  It may then decide to do what it likes with that information.  If you die due to poor curing priorities / logic, that's on you and your system.  Simply knowing that you have a broken torso does not "kill" you in any scenario.  (I was not in any of those scenarios in any of the examples)

    Regarding SVO price : Vadi has also sold his system to hundreds of people, thus making the price he can charge much lower.  And I am not "charging" anything, I have given it out to quite a few people already, and simply asked for a donation of 25-50cr if they feel that it is worth it.  So far everyone feels that it is worth it.


    If it isn't too much trouble, could you just not talk to or about me, ever?  You have never, ever said anything to me that isn't blatantly derogatory and completely subjective, to the point of coming off as rather silly.  I don't need you chasing me around trying to blast me every chance you get.  If you (or anyone) feels that my system isn't worth what I charge (which is nothing) then simply don't ask for it.  Thank you.    [also, for the record, I make well over $40 an hour.  I am amused that you'd put my coding at about ~2.5 cents per hour (5 credits for this system)]

  • edited May 2014
    Cooper said:

    In all of your examples except the Paladin one, your complex self limb counter that applies restoration for you would have gotten you killed in a real fight. Auto-applying restoration to torso is a terrible, terrible idea that people can abuse very easily.

    I've always had my system's counter auto apply on torso and I haven't yet been in a single fight where the opponent actually abused that in any way. You're probably giving the limb breakers out there too much credit here.

    Plus, it's really not that easy to abuse if your defence against limb breakers is good in the first place.

    On the other hand, I've lost count of how often I've seen people get stuck with a broken torso for ages, never detecting it, and it becoming the cause of their death.

    If you are alert enough to always detect torso breaks on your own and react to them in a timely fashion - great! For everyone else (which is the vast majority of people), I highly recommend tracking your own limb damage and letting it predict torso breaks.

  • edited May 2014

    Any experts on BM Limb damage relative to artefacts, strength, and stance, willing to sit down and play for a while?  So far its the only thing I'm having issues tracking.

    Regarding Cooper's "insight", if you'd ever like to disable curing of torso (or any other affliction) due to a strategic need to wait for it, then simply use vignore (or the associated function) or server curing's 26th priority.

    To rephrase myself: All SLC does is track limb damage and invisible torso breaks.  It at no point issues any commands other than the one to inform server curing that you have a broken torso (there is an option provided to disable this feature).  Cooper is suggesting that the best way to counter a torso break abuse strategy is to simply pretend that you don't have it.  My method is to know as much as possible, and make the best decision using that information.  Both work, if set up right, but ignoring it leaves you far more vulnerable, far more often, and is far less easy to work into a curing priority/sequence without major losses or overlaps due to manual curing.  This was actually one of the motivations for me creating SLC in the first place.

  • Can "reverse engineer" Dorn's limbcounter here, it's decently accurate for a good starting point. Then I suppose you can track their stance and otherwise assume Thyr. Seems fun!

    Also, strength doesn't effect limb damage but I think you already knew that and I'm misunderstanding.

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  • @Rom that's an awesome resource, thank you.

    Will update BM damage within the next day or two.

  • You weren't killed in the examples because you were just testing with people. I guarantee that a normal person applying to torso as a dragon or infernal breaks your leg will get you killed, and it will against monks as well.

    I never said ignore torso damage as you quoted me saying, I said auto applying is not good. When you apply to torso you need to be behind shield or have your opponent in the defensive or hindered.

    This is definitely useful, but it is also very dangerous for most people. For the people who can't track torso already it's probably just going to get them killed. The all around self limb tracking is great, though.

  • edited May 2014
    It doesn't auto-apply, nor does my curing system.

    It only appears to auto-apply, because in that given scenario, it made perfect sense to do cure the broken limbs in the way there were cured.

    If anything, having a table that tells you what limbs are prepped (which SLC does for you) is incredibly useful for making the determination of how to set your priorities.  (It opens the door for easily swapping priorities when prepped for sylvan/monk/vivi kill setups, only when you meet the prep criteria)

    And for the third time, information never killed anyone.  If you automatically prio torso of everything else, in every scenario, that can backfire (like any affliction can), but SLC in no way limits you to this.  All it does is inform you that our torso is in fact broken.  @Cooper I feel like you're either consciously or sub-conciously ignoring this fact.  Please feel free to post an example of a combat scenario, and I'll illustrate exactly how this is put into practice.
  • edited May 2014


    All six of your limbs are prepped (worst case scenario).

    You can easily create a trigger/function to check SLC's limb prep table to check for any form of criteria, which in this hypothetical case is 2 prepped legs, 2 prepped arms, and prepped head.

    Upon reaching that criteria, your system could simply set server curing priority for mildtrauma to 26, temporarily overriding the curing if it, to prevent the hypothetical kill setup (in this case, leading with a torso break to use up your salve balance).  Upon no longer meeting the criteria, you it could simply be replaced into your priority list where it belongs, and server curing/SVO will cure it based on your priorities.  Something like this is pretty obviously a good idea for vivisection protection. (Must be used carefully to avoid backfiring into a DSB)

    The same principals apply to SVO.  You may simply place any affliction at any time on the ignore list, including mildtrauma.  SVO simply knowing that your torso is broken does not "force" it to cure it first, or at all.  That determination is solely up to your system and the priorities/scenarios you tell it to use.

    All SLC does is give you and your system more information to work from.  In fact, this type of tool is the -only- way to consistently survive the "guaranteed" infernal vivisect setup that has been spreading around, as well as heartseed, without difficult to time and wholly unreliable typed in overrides.

    There is no possible way to kill me from "Torso prepped + 1 leg prepped" scenario, so I have no such overrides in place for this case.  Thus, it is completely safe to cure in the way that I did (and in fact would be unsafe not to).

  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga

    Cooper has a point about abusing people who apply to torso right away. It's not super easy, but you if noticed we can use it agianst you. Is there a way for it not to tell svo that I have torso damage and just tell me that I'm prepped then broke? I haven't been able to look at examples because my phone is lame. Also how does it account for rapier damages being so different? Does it just count and then if you break it sets some kind of break point?

    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • Another simple example is vs. monks when legs/arms/torso is prepped.

    On double arm break:

    if both_legs_are_prepped( ) then
         flee( ) end
         send("taunt "

  • edited May 2014
    Wessux said:

    Cooper has a point about abusing people who apply to torso right away. It's not super easy, but you if noticed we can use it agianst you. Is there a way for it not to tell svo that I have torso damage and just tell me that I'm prepped then broke? I haven't been able to look at examples because my phone is lame. Also how does it account for rapier damages being so different? Does it just count and then if you break it sets some kind of break point?

    Yes, I posted it above.

    SVO:  vignore mildtrauma
    SC:    curing priority mildtrauma 26

    Question 2:  It uses assumptions, but then adjusts as it gets more information during a fight.  See examples 4/5 for examples of not just correcting its number of DSLs need to break variable (intentionally set at 20 for the example), but also retroactively noticing that due to the new information, it now knows that torso was broken earlier on.

    There is nothing that it does not know that a person could know, without prior knowledge of weapon stats and artefacts. (however, you can use the cset command to set your break point for any attack type, at any time, if you do have this information)

  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga

    Well I don't want my system to ignore it, I just want the limb counter to not tell it.

    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • edited May 2014

    Yes, in settings, there is a "server_curing" option.  This disables Server Curing interaction .  (Not sure why you'd do this)

    I kill top tier fighters using simple setups all the time using pre-SWK torso breaks.  There are a lot of people (@Cooper) wondering about these fringe scenarios (which are in fact well covered), when what you should be worried about is a simple level 1 torso break SWK/leg/leg BBT, which almost everyone I fight dies to.

    However, keep in mind, it also covers all other classes, not just knight.  I'd assert that simply by installing this system with absolutely no catches for advanced Vivi/Heartseed setups, you'd prevent 9 deaths for every 1 that you incur.  And that 1 you incur is simply due to lack of use of information that is readily available. (and you probably would have died anyways - as escaping these essentially requires a limb tracker and/or a perfectly timed manual override)

  • I don't understand the argument. How is applying to torso any different to, say, applying to head, in that respect?

    If the argument is that auto-applying restoration to any body part is a risk, because people might make use of you going off salve balance, then that would be somewhat correct, but it has nothing to do with the way you detect said affliction, but with how you handle it. Yet I've never heard of people saying that one should always disable all restoration curing in ones curing system because of that. Rather, people will tell you that once you get a break and your system starts curing it, shielding may be a good idea, if you're able to.

    Saying that detecting torso breaks via counting your own limb damage is too risky is like saying that detecting a blackout from the prompt is risky, because it might lead to your system touching tree, which can be abused to lock you...

  • edited May 2014
    Iocun said:

    I don't understand the argument.  [and the rest of your post]

    I think he was just skimming and saw my name at the top, honestly.*  I'm for moving on if you are.

    * or, he doesn't yet realize how server curing works.  The command that SLC sends only tells server curing that I have a broken torso.  It does -NOT- force it to cure it in any way.  If I set torso to any lower priority or disable it, it will "know" that I have it, but do nothing, until I tell it to do so.  Much like using "vaff mildtrauma" while SVO is paused (or mildtrauma is on ignore list).

  • edited May 2014

    My next update is going to have an option to output a nice ugly warning when each limb is prepped.  As of now, if you use any of the output options, they're highlighted red when you're in breaking range. (default is set to 25% from break, which almost every class [except knights] is capable of breaking from with their normal attack  - you can easily change this to 20% or 15% if you like, for people with very large max health)

  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga

    I won't break down the strategies, but in short, torso is not a "need to fix at every chance" break. You fix it when you have an opportunity. Torso damage doesn't hinder you and doesn't help them until they go for certain setups. Also torso is not vital to a lot of setups persa. Don't mis understand me, yes you need it for bbt and dsb, but torso isn't taken into account when looking over your salve balance for the setup. So if you fix it every time it then becomes an easy 4 seconds you get to add to other setups. Makes vivi easier, damnation, makes enfeeble bbt axk. That kind of stuff. Really it just opens up a new avenue of tactics for limb classes that we didn't have before. But only really good opponents will take advantage of it. 

    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • Yeah, Infernals break torso all the time :neutral_face: 

    And if you have a good knowledge of HOW to overcome vivi, there's no way that abusing this will get you killed by it. 

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