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Emoticons on public channels

AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
(Eleusis): Eminox says, "So... i am done... i got boar, shield, crystal and moss tattoo :D."

Emoticons for says should be made to work on channels so that the above would've been transformed into (Eleusis): Eminox laughingly says, "So... i am done... i got boar, shield, crystal and moss tattoo."

Then we won't have to instruct novices not to use emoticons on public channels.

TharvisTrillianaJulesMelodieAsmodronDaeirAlysseaAnaidianaJhaeliKuy
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Comments

  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    actually nevermind, this won't work because the :) and :( emoticons show up as "You smile/frown and say", and you can't see smiles or frowns on telepathic channels, thus destroying the point of this idea.

  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Could just make orgtells not work if you have unpaired parentheses?
    image
    Kyriella
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited April 2014
    @Aktillum You can't see smiles or frowns on channels right now only because we haven't coded it to allow it. I like the idea overall, though I also have zero problem with emoticons. People are already speaking English, which is an OOC language. I don't see that emoticons are any more OOC.
    HasarSaevaMishgulCahinCaladbolgDraekarAnaidiana
  • OceanaOceana North SeaMember Posts: 893 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It would also not work for the *grin* and *cough* and such. @Aktillum
    Wysteria
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,264 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    People WTF'd  your post because it implied it is alright to speak like "Hi :D how are you? :)" an similarly on public channels. I mean, I honestly can't even believe you said that. Its stupid, and would only ever contribute in degenerating channels into ooc chats

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    TharvisKyriellaKazuNieelensarsEilona
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Sarapis: @Iocun covered it exceptionally well. I don't see anything wrong with emoticons either - my tabletop/freeform roleplaying uses shortcuts like that a lot! I'm a pretty minimalistic roleplayer though.

    However, emoticons do give a sort of OOC feeling, even if it's unwarranted. That's why the SAYS emoticons are so great - they remove that lolspeak aspect from the emoticon, while keeping the general spirit of its use. I think allowing them over channels would resolve the issue just as well.

    I think the smile/frown emoticons could be solved by replacing them with emotions, eg.

    (Eleusis) Penwize says cheerfully, "Almost about to break the world by leveling again!"
    (Ashtan) Dunn says grumpily, "stfu"

    But then that might go into the expressiveness thing, which could be cool too of course.
    Trilliana
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited April 2014
    @Shirszae Nobody is speaking like that. They're writing like that, and the characters are speaking to each other in an in-game language that we, the OOC players, wouldn't understand as we don't know those languages (just like the IC players don't speak English). 

    English, or emoticons, are translation layers between you, the OOC player, and the IC world which we can only touch through that translation layer. There's nothing special about English, or emoticons, or Filipino, or Mandarin, or any other symbols or languages you wanted to use to communicate. I mean, punctuation are symbols that add meaning to written text the same as emoticons do. Anything that communicates meaning does the job of translating, though I will grant that there may be more of the 'medium is the message' going on here than I'm giving credit for (insofar as the medium here I refer to is the language or symbology).

    In any case, more of a theoretical statement on my part. It's not part of the culture of Achaea, though it personally doesn't bother me nor do I think it has anything to do, in and of itself, with roleplaying. Don't worry, the policy isn't going to change.
  • JonathinJonathin Grand Rapids, MIMember Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    image

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

    SarapisSylvanceAnaidiana
  • SybillaSybilla LondonMember Posts: 503 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    @Shirszae Nobody is speaking like that. They're writing like that, and the characters are speaking to each other in an in-game language that we, the OOC players, wouldn't understand as we don't know those languages (just like the IC players don't speak English). 

    English, or emoticons, are translation layers between you, the OOC player, and the IC world which we can only touch through that translation layer. There's nothing special about English, or emoticons, or Filipino, or Mandarin, or any other symbols or languages you wanted to use to communicate. I mean, punctuation are symbols that add meaning to written text the same as emoticons do. Anything that communicates meaning does the job of translating, though I will grant that there may be more of the 'medium is the message' going on here than I'm giving credit for (insofar as the medium here I refer to is the language or symbology).

    In any case, more of a theoretical statement on my part. It's not part of the culture of Achaea, though it personally doesn't bother me nor do I think it has anything to do, in and of itself, with roleplaying. Don't worry, the policy isn't going to change.

    I understand what you're saying in regards to an OOC translation/transcription of what Achaeans would say in Achaean (a language that doesn't exist); but since we are transcribing it into (UK) English and the rules therein, doesn't it seem incongruous not to follow said conventions?

    If I were to read a historical fiction book to do with the Romans, how jarring would it be to see dialogue like this:

    Julius Caesar says to Mark Anthony, "We pwnd those Gauls lol."
    Mark Anthony says to Julius Caesar, "Yeh. Can't wait to see Pompey's face. D: can you imagine? *grin*"


    Oh, but it's written for a modern English audience (ooc)! They would obviously have said it in Latin (Achaean), which English readers (ooc players) don't understand. This just helps convey the message and meaning of what they (Achaeans) said to an modern English audience (ooc playerbase).

    It sounds ridiculous, frankly.


    Would support expressiveness on telepathic channels, so long as it's tone/mood only and not "smiles and says" or anything that would require you to be in that person's physical presence.
    SylvanceEilona
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited April 2014
    @Sybilla

    Funnily, the consistent use of English accents in films/tv portraying Romans is a pet peeve of mine, as it's so arbitrary, and is exactly as accurate as using a French or American Southern accent for them, and probably a lot less accurate than using a central Italian accent. I would have -loved- to have seen the (now a few years off the air) show Rome discard with some of the pointless and stale conventions around portraying Romans and given them a different accent (Caesar with an old-school Brooklyn accent would have been awesome). 

    Sounding ridiculous is a valid criticism of it, but isn't the same thing at all as it having anything to do with being RP or not. 
    TharvisJhaeli
  • NieelensarsNieelensars Southern, TexasMember Posts: 106 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarapis said:
    Asmodron said:
    (City): You say "Nish nok ta Sarapis kish qui lorie nok".


    No, I had nothing to do with the decrease in the brown rabbit population in the eastern Ithmia this year. Utheru gishrnaklistamopolis bnn! Makalakabee sillanmishza. Rotu. Heh.
    image
    image
    TrillianaTharvis
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    My disagreement with this is the thin line between OOC and IC when it comes to channels as they are now. If we assume channels are a bit like tells, and we're simply able to tap into them on a telepathic level, then (to me at least) it wouldn't make sense to have emotion conveyed via these channels. If someone uses them in Says, that's different. We're there with the person in the room, and we can reasonably witness and gauge [as a character] what emotion they are wanting us to see portrayed. It's sort of like the difference between conveying intent in real life between actual speech and through another form of communication such as email or text. 

    That our characters are speaking English essentially [when they speak on channels] doesn't really make sense to me. If I hear something come across Mhaldor's CT, I automatically register it as being in Mhaldorian. Any other IC channel associated with a clan, I consider they are simply speaking Common. So, that being said, not sure how I feel about the use of emoticons outside of their limited role right now in adding emphasis to Says. To me, I think moves away from better ways to convey how you feel if you're not face to face with someone, with using proper grammar, punctuation, and emphasis. Even while some of that is lost simply via text, it's usually easy enough to pick up on. 

    For instance, if you add '??' at the end of a say, it turns it into a question. If you add '!!' it turns it into an exclamation. If you want tips on how to convey emotion via a channel, listen to any city denizen in their final moments before they are killed.


  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    @Kresslack I think you're misunderstanding. Your characters are not speaking English. They're speaking, off in the realm of imagination, Achaean (or whatever language you have your character speaking). Your English communication is an OOC layer that lets you talk to other players, not to their characters directly. Part of the RP is the assumption that the characters are talking to each other, even though we all know we're talking to real people. 

  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    I could get behind this only if we limited it to emotions/expressions you can "hear". Culturally speaking, Achaean channels are typically telepathic. You don't hear smiles, frowns or scowls, but you can hear them express joy, sorrow, and anger. 

    I'm not a fan of this suggestion as the "no emoticon" rule in speech has really influenced how I play the game, and ultimately how I use chat programs like Skype (I emote there, but a whole lot less). My writing and grammar has improved, and I find the eloquence of a complete sentence to be far more attractive than chat speak. 
    ShirszaeKyriellaRipJhaeli
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I, and I suspect many others will automatically filter out emoticons in chat immediately if such a feature is ever added.

    I do however, support the notion of in-game features providing a method to convey emotion or tone similarly to how emoticons are handled at the end of says currently.
    SylvanceNieelensars
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,035 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Sarapis said:
    Asmodron said:
    (City): You say "Nish nok ta Sarapis kish qui lorie nok".


    No, I had nothing to do with the decrease in the brown rabbit population in the eastern Ithmia this year. Utheru gishrnaklistamopolis bnn! Makalakabee sillanmishza. Rotu. Heh.
    What'd you call my mother??!
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmodron said:
    Sarapis said:
    Asmodron said:
    (City): You say "Nish nok ta Sarapis kish qui lorie nok".


    No, I had nothing to do with the decrease in the brown rabbit population in the eastern Ithmia this year. Utheru gishrnaklistamopolis bnn! Makalakabee sillanmishza. Rotu. Heh.
    What'd you call my mother??!
    he was asking you if he should regale you with the tale of "How I met your mother"
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Asmodron
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    'Telepathic communication' is essentially just sharing thoughts with someone, though... Try thinking different emotions to yourself, and you'll see that the little voice inside your head stays the same, regardless of how loud/quiet/angry/happy/etc you try to be. I don't really see how it'd be any different if you were to push those thoughts into another's head.

  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Not sure why some of you WTF'd my post.

    . . .
    Were they all from Targossas? Don't let it get to you upset, happens to me all the time. :P
    image
    SylvanceBonkoWynedere
  • AnaidianaAnaidiana Member Posts: 833 @ - Epic Achaean
    I've always thought about the channels like speaking on a telephone. You aren't physically with the people you're speaking with, but you can hear emotions in their voice. If they cry, you hear it even if they're not saying anything, but sobbing violently. You can hear when someone is smiling as they speak, and if they laugh, you definitely hear that, or if they cough. We have the non-speak (I know I'm prone to responding with an ellipsis when someone says something particularly dumbfounding), so I feel that allowing an extra dimension to city tells (within reason) would only enhance the roleplay potential among the major orgs.


    image
    SylvanceKyriellaTrillianaGreys
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I have hated the no-emoticons on channels rule ever since it was implemented, simply because I use a lot of sarcasm and you can't get tone of voice right without completely ruining the line. Emoticons lets you keep the wording but show people you are also joking.

    Also didn't help that they put them in and just after I got used to using them decided they weren't for public channels.
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 2014
    My personal experience is that ANY emoting on channels is immersion-breaking. Sure, people can give me a hundred reasons as to why it shouldn't be, but for me it is. Period. 

    Quite possibly that's simply because I'm not used to it. My unease with this idea more boils down to my feelings as a writer/reader. When you can toss an emote or adverb at speech, you start to get lazy: 

    "Are you serious?" he asked incredulously. 
    vs.
    "I... You just can't possibly mean that... Right?"

    TL;DR: There are more (and better!) ways to be expressive than telling people that you're being expressive!
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
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