Knight Skillsets

Jacen

You've veered away entirely from your initial argument though. You claimed that as long as the new skills didn't use an independent balance, they couldn't affect the balance of combat. Now you're saying that the new skills will need to be designed to be balanced with the other class skills in order to maintain combat balance, which is an obvious statement.

Silas

Stop arguing class balance with Xith. Didn't you see his hilariously terrible ideas for magi buffs?

Xith

Jacen said:

You've veered away entirely from your initial argument though. You claimed that as long as the new skills didn't use an independent balance, they couldn't affect the balance of combat. Now you're saying that the new skills will need to be designed to be balanced with the other class skills in order to maintain combat balance, which is an obvious statement.

That's because someone before me said "You can't add a 3rd combat skill and keep it balanced". All I did was disagree on the basis we've just covered. How does a 15 post argument happen just because people can't read what I originally responded to?

These forums sometimes...

Cooper

Your disagreeing was wrong. You have absolutely no concept of combat or balance and have proven it with your 5000 posts in these threads with absolutely ridiculous ideas that will never, ever get implemented because they are incredibly broken. Seriously, just give it up, everyone is tired of reading your shit.

Valden

Cooper said:

Your disagreeing was wrong. You have absolutely no concept of combat or balance and have proven it with your 5000 posts in these threads with absolutely ridiculous ideas that will never, ever get implemented because they are incredibly broken. Seriously, just give it up, everyone is tired of reading your shit.

But he has pretty hair, that's got to count for something:

Nim

I agree with @Xith, give Blademasters absolve. It won't be unbalanced at all, I swear!

Naisar

Hey @Tecton, the faster you push out these changes the fewer of these threads you have to read.

Shecks

The faster they push them, the more holes they're going to have to read about, and fix.  And in the meantime, we'll have to deal with them.  I say take your time.

Nim

Shecks said:

The faster they push them, the more holes they're going to have to read about, and fix.  And in the meantime, we'll have to deal with them.  I say take your time.

Beta testing!

Xith

Cooper said:

Your disagreeing was wrong. You have absolutely no concept of combat or balance and have proven it with your 5000 posts in these threads with absolutely ridiculous ideas that will never, ever get implemented because they are incredibly broken. Seriously, just give it up, everyone is tired of reading your shit.

Cooper thinks knights can't have a 3rd combat skill. Better take notes, Nostradamus.

Dorn

Xith said:

Your disagreeing was wrong. You have absolutely no concept of combat or balance and have proven it with your 5000 posts in these threads with absolutely ridiculous ideas that will never, ever get implemented because they are incredibly broken. Seriously, just give it up, everyone is tired of reading your shit.

Cooper thinks knights can't have a 3rd combat skill. Better take notes, Nostradamus.

Actually, based on what he's actually typing and not the words you're putting in his mouth (at his fingers? IDFK), he thinks that you shouldn't be writing combat proposals.

Whether or not I agree with him (I kind of don't, but more because bad ideas can be refined, you can't refine a lack of ideas), it's Not Cool(tm) to twist people's words, m'kay?

(Words twisted in hilarious ways in five, four, three...)

Anedhel

With an impending weaponry change, and the re-work of forging as a trade skill, it's really not a great idea to be discussing extra knight skills anyways. It's frustrating, but you're probably better off waiting and seeing what the admins introduce, before writing up threads about things that are probably going to change soonish anyways. Specially since you're talking about a whole skill (which I doubt anyone could come up with in a way that wouldn't require hours of looking-at and finagling to get right, even if they -were- very familiar with every aspect of Achaean combat).

Xith

Person 1: knights can't have a 3rd combat skill and be balanced.
Xith: yes they can.
Cooper: Xith was wrong to disagree.

So yeah, pretty sure cooper's wrong. Or didn't understand what I was actually arguing. But still wrong. Which is okay to admit. It happens even to "experts".

Jovolo

He disagreed with your premise for disagreeing with person 1. Not the sheer fact that you disagreed.

or hey, maybe he really does disagree that a 3rd combat skill for Knights would be imbalanced. That seems more unlikely though.

Xith

My comments were never wrong. I said that balance is easy to facilitate. Fakziel said something stupid about giving knights bbt and somehow everyone thought that's what I meant.

It's like arguing that adding puppetry would make jesters (who can kill with the first two skills also) unbalanced. That was all I implied.

Blujixapug

Anedhel said:

With an impending weaponry change, and the re-work of forging as a trade skill, it's really not a great idea to be discussing extra knight skills anyways. It's frustrating, but you're probably better off waiting and seeing what the admins introduce, before writing up threads about things that are probably going to change soonish anyways. Specially since you're talking about a whole skill (which I doubt anyone could come up with in a way that wouldn't require hours of looking-at and finagling to get right, even if they -were- very familiar with every aspect of Achaean combat).

I don't know. Worst case, people have fun discussing classes and throwing around some zany ideas, even if those ideas go nowhere. Best case, maybe the admins find some of those ideas usable, or take inspiration from them, or find the perspectives offered to be useful.

I guess the actual worst case would be a thread full of people bickering and posting nothing of substance, but that hardly bears mentioning.

Anedhel

Blujixapug said:

Anedhel said:

With an impending weaponry change, and the re-work of forging as a trade skill, it's really not a great idea to be discussing extra knight skills anyways. It's frustrating, but you're probably better off waiting and seeing what the admins introduce, before writing up threads about things that are probably going to change soonish anyways. Specially since you're talking about a whole skill (which I doubt anyone could come up with in a way that wouldn't require hours of looking-at and finagling to get right, even if they -were- very familiar with every aspect of Achaean combat).

I don't know. Worst case, people have fun discussing classes and throwing around some zany ideas, even if those ideas go nowhere. Best case, maybe the admins find some of those ideas usable, or take inspiration from them, or find the perspectives offered to be useful.

I guess the actual worst case would be a thread full of people bickering and posting nothing of substance, but that hardly bears mentioning.

Would suck if we lived in a world like that, agreed.

Jacen

Xith said:

Shecks said:

Just saying, knights have always been a 2-skill class, just as dragoncraft is a 1-skill class.  A third skillset with literally anything that affected combat in it would be too much.

If it had its own balance, maybe, but if it was its own set of attacks that couldn't be  used simultaneously it has no effect on combat.

You used a very polarized statement as the basis of your disagreement with Sheck's polarized statement. You're both wrong, on opposite ends of the spectrum. Cooper isn't disagreeing with the fact that you disagreed, but the reasoning behind your disagreement.

Xith

Jacen, buddy. Simultaneously means at the same time, like humor + eq or voice + balance or even hypno while off balance. So yeah if you let knights entangle on its own balance, that would offbalance. Do you really think I was suggesting the admins would add something unbalanced like that? Because my post said it would not unbalance combat to add more skills that operate on eq and balance.

Again, how do we know this? Cause it's going to happen. Debating under the assumption that I'm talking about things I was never talking about, no matter how big your font size is, is inane.

Kuy

Xith said:

Jacen, buddy. Simultaneously means at the same time, like humor + eq or voice + balance or even hypno while off balance. So yeah if you let knights entangle on its own balance, that would offbalance. Do you really think I was suggesting the admins would add something unbalanced like that? Because my post said it would not unbalance combat to add more skills that operate on eq and balance.

Again, how do we know this? Cause it's going to happen. Debating under the assumption that I'm talking about things I was never talking about, no matter how big your font size is, is inane.

Okay, fine.

Let's replace Enchanting with Woodlore for Magi.  Since it's not unbalanced because Elementalism/Crystalism use Balance/EQ, and Woodlore uses Balance/EQ, and you can't use skills from either simultaneously, it won't be unbalanced at all!

This is your argument.  This is the kind of thing your argument can lead to.  This is a great example of why your argument is bad.

Before you go all crazy on form hate, yadda yadda, I have no opinion of you as a character or a person.

I do, however, have an opinion on your grievous misuse of logic.

Kafziel

Xith said:

My comments were never wrong. I said that balance is easy to facilitate. Fakziel said something stupid about giving knights bbt and somehow everyone thought that's what I meant. It's like arguing that adding puppetry would make jesters (who can kill with the first two skills also) unbalanced. That was all I implied.

a·nal·o·gy

əˈnaləjē/

noun

noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies

1.

a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"

You're welcome. Let me know if I can help you further.

Xith

Oh my gosh guys. So sorry I didn't specify that you shouldn't add stupid and unbalanced things in order to create a balanced 3rd skillset. Glad we cleared that up. All A are B but not all B are A. Just in case anyone thought Magi were getting Woodlore. Phew. Talk about a mass panic.

Eld

Xith said:

Jacen, buddy. Simultaneously means at the same time, like humor + eq or voice + balance or even hypno while off balance. So yeah if you let knights entangle on its own balance, that would offbalance. Do you really think I was suggesting the admins would add something unbalanced like that? Because my post said it would not unbalance combat to add more skills that operate on eq and balance.

Again, how do we know this? Cause it's going to happen. Debating under the assumption that I'm talking about things I was never talking about, no matter how big your font size is, is inane.

No one thinks you're suggesting that giving knights an entangle on its own balance would be fine. They're just pointing out that your statement that giving them new abilities that only use balance and equilibrium could not possibly affect combat balance is absurd.

Xith

Xith said:

Shecks said:

Just saying, knights have always been a 2-skill class, just as dragoncraft is a 1-skill class.  A third skillset with literally anything that affected combat in it would be too much.

If it had its own balance, maybe, but if it was its own set of attacks that couldn't be  used simultaneously it has no effect on combat. As long as those skills make sense to add.

ftfy. lol...

Anedhel

Not sure if trolling or you really don't get it. Either way, what a waste of time.

Jovolo

He just admitted he was wrong.

Nim

Does this mean blademasters aren't getting absolve?

Kuy

Yea.  I'm just gonna nope the fuck out of here before I lose any more hope that this conversation could turn into something meaningful in the slightest.

Lilian

Nim said:

Does this mean blademasters aren't getting absolve?

Shin Burst

At 100 shin and when the unlucky foe is at 0 mana, you release an overwhelming burst of shin capable of tearing apart your foe.

With a small smirk you gather your hands in front of your chest and begin to focus your shin energy between your hands, rapidly shaping  the energy into a sphere. Before Nim realizes what is dawning, a loud screech resounds through the air as the energy becomes increasingly violate. With a thrust of your palms you shove the sphere of shin into Nim's chest, the energy wreaking havoc her body as she is torn asunder by the violent energies.

Cmon we know Shin burst has been so useless and it NEEDS TO DO THIS..

noitdoesn't

Xith

Xith: swords are long.
People: no Xith, long swords are long. You know nothing about combat
Xith: k...?