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Jester Reskins

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  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    With a sly grin, you scatter the ground with a handful of tiny metal spheres.

    With a sly grin, Synbios scatters the ground with a handful of tiny metal spheres.

  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For the last time, hocus pocus was changed like 6 months ago. It has no message now.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    AveriBoosteya
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,030 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    There's just so much 'wrong' and 'wtf' in this post..im not sure where to begin, but i'll try to get it all.
    Aktillum said:

    My god this thread is full of conjecture and over-exaggerated opinion. I'm fine with re-flavouring some of the sillier messages (ie hooting like a monkey for peels) but these "total Jester reboot" threads always spiral into a debate between a small handful of people who absolutely detest silliness in Achaea and would love to see Bopalopia + Pandora + CIJ Estate deleted, and another handful of people who are fine with it.


    1. You may need to take a statistics class, but from what is seen, it is MUCH of the playerbase always arguing that Jester should be changed, against 3 to 4 jester-silly-'i like being a hooting buffoon' players that are arguing that "If you dont like it, pick another class" (Because apparently you seem insistent on not seeing the -actual- point being made over and over).
    Aktillum said:



    "Jack_in_the_box I dont see much of a problem with this, but it could be changed that the jester uses their fireworks and attaches them to a target, which will then explode off with the person."

    It was called Puppet Obliterate and it got deleted for being OP because obtaining a full puppet and lighting a firecracker was pretty easy.

    2. Changing how an ability looks does NOT mean changing the way it works. I was suggesting another way that the kill would occur, not a new mechanic to try and place. Puppet Obliterate was an -entirely- different kill mechanic compared to JITB, and had its own reasons for getting deleted.
    Aktillum said:



    "- Badjoke can be replaced by casting an illusion over yourself that makes you seem like a monster, and the target charges at you in shock."

    (Attempt at comedy with meme)

    3. If you are attempting to ask as to how this makes sense, then look at the ability Bodywarp in occultism for an example. The person warps their body to become some foul looking thing and people run in 'fear'. Also take into account Disfigure in Necromancy. The person places the appearance of a rotting corpse upon another, and their loyal pets attack. This idea isnt really a stretch, it shouldnt be -that- hard to figure out.
    Aktillum said:



    "If you are looking at 'Achaea Jesterdom" then you should consider the true elements. 1. Achaea is in a general medieval era, not modern"

    I don't get your point. When I pointed out that Jesters could use marottes as a weapon because they were a historical prop associated with medieval Jesters, several people pointed out that Achaea is a fantasy universe where the IRL concept of a Jester doesn't necessarily have to apply, thus allowing Achaea to define its own version of what is and isn't "Jesterdom". Which means in Achaea, Jesterism is historically associated with silliness, Erisian / Pandoran principles, and buffoonery.

    4. Achaea may be in its own fantasy universe but, as was said previously, it takes elements from the real world and history that make sense with the general theme of Achaea. Balloon animals is not something that generally makes sense frankly and as most (yes most, please dont say a small group again) of the playerbase has pointed out, that code really needs to go and die in a fire.

    As for 'Jesterism' and its association, note that Eris, though very 'odd' was not the incarnation of 'silly'. Her teachings did not associate with balloon animals and slippery bananas (I know that the general idea of chaos could encompass these elements, but im speaking at a core level, so let's not get into -that- discussion). Jesters were not the heralds of Erisian definition, that was much more the Occultists' venue.
    Aktillum said:



    "because the class: ... frankly is just a bad image of a class design."

    This is coming from the guy who just suggested that Jesters carry around a pocketful of ants to throw on opponents.

    5. Did you even read my post properly...? I stated the 'prank' of making one assuming ants are crawling all over them, thus constantly being pushed off balanced as they are attempting to brush them off. Where did you get the idea of carrying ants in their pockets..?



    Lastly @Aktillum, you are one of the few (yes only 4) people that have been frothing at the mouth debating that the current incarnation of Jesters is just fine, well let me give you another point of view to look at it. Consider the game as a whole, Achaea is a game with strong elements and flavor to it, each class giving the game an image of fantasy and depth. Do you believe if a new player was researching the game to see what role would suit him, and comes across the current incarnation of jester, that they would most likely be impressed? It's a walking joke (Not in a good sense) and deters people away from the class rather than take it up. There are few jesters for a reason, and usually those that do later take the class up do it only for either boredom/curiosity or to help produce bombs for their city. Very few people will look at the current kit and think "This would make my character's story fit in wonderfully in the game".

    Also consider that no one can be taken seriously with the class as is, and people are always pushed away by that idea. The class has no room for self-growth, unlike the other classes. You may now bring up that "Priests and Apostates are only Good and Evil heralds and can do nothing else", but that is their class role, to push their respective alignments. A jester's main role is -not- to push silliness incarnate, but to be a showman and prankster. One can be a prankster without needing to hoot like a monkey. as @Synbios recently stated, simply making it seem like they are being sly as they drop some metal spheres, is a much better example of this.


    Edit: Was Synbios that mentioned metal spheres, not Xith, fixed.
    Katzchen
  • AlstonAlston ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 43 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's not much of the player base. It is people who care to post on the forums. Typically it's the same 8 or 9 people arguing for changing or against changing.


  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,538 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Judging from what I see in game, of the many people I talk to, my personal experience is that only one or two people are okay with Jesters being forced to be as silly as they are. This can be easily solved by just taming some of the class messages. If the class were more tame, the CIJ could maintain its current role while others are free to pursue other forms of jesterdom. Compare the Ty Beirdd, who are bards that are all about the arts, almost to he exclusion of everything else, which other city's versions of bards do not necessarily do (though may, if they so choose). This same level of freedom should be given to the Jester class.
    AsmodronKatzchenAveri
  • KaieKaie ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    Really, I tend to liken this whole argument about Jester needing a text change to a toddler saying "thirsty!" and when asked what it wants to drink only replying with "thirsty!" again. Say what you want changed and what with, or just don't say anything. 

    I don't even know what to say. Reading this argument between Aktillum and Asmodron.. I'm really hung up on this idea of carrying ants (in or out of pockets). It just seems really unpleasant and I fail to see how a person can argue that Jesters are simply too damn silly, yet suggest we replace itch powder with live ants. This is not the movie Defendor, you are not Woody Harrelson, and we do not enslave live insects to do our bidding. However, small animals are quite acceptable, but insects have rights. As was pointed out, this is achaea not real life history. So, we don't need to conform to what you or anyone believes is "historically accurate." Also, who says all jesters carried these head-sticks? Where in history do we see Jesters murdering other people or animals with them? Where do we even see in history animals dropping gold coins when dying for that matter? Point is, it's not really about being historically accurate because this is achaea, it's about being the image you conjured in your mind. @Beya pointed out, there have been some changes made already and I agree some skills are kinda stupid, however I'm content with this as it is until some one really presents an idea that's actually better, and no, ants are not a good solution. Good day.
    Post edited by Kaie on
    AveriBluefBoosteya
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If the jester wants to carry illusionary ants around in their pocket, then they can do so. However this is hardly necessary, or a good argument against it as a change.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I totally love the idea of jesters getting ants in their pants, handfuls of which they throw at their enemies.
    image
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,238 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Katzchen said:
    If the jester wants to carry illusionary ants around in their pocket, then they can do so. However this is hardly necessary, or a good argument against it as a change.
    What is a good argument for it as a change? It's no better than itching powder.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    Jesters can already illusion throwing (p)ants at people. It just has no PvP or PvE effect.
    Marax
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    Katzchen said:
    If the jester wants to carry illusionary ants around in their pocket, then they can do so. However this is hardly necessary, or a good argument against it as a change.
    What is a good argument for it as a change? It's no better than itching powder.
    ^ Agreed. And it is a far cry from the calls for "moving away from silly," which most people seem to want to see the class do.
  • BoosteyaBoosteya ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    I happen to LIKE silly. And Silly (by which I mean @Sillias).

    I WOULD like to suggest a new Jester ability, which is silly:

    GOODJOKE: Room effect, Stuns for about 1.5 seconds, chance of proning. (It's hard to stay upright when you're REALLY amused!) Possibly blocked by deafness?

    Edit: I have pulled this off IRL many times.
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
    ShirszaeBlujixapug
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Deadly joke: anyone that hears it laughs UNTIL IT KILLS THEM. Suicide room-wide instakill. Gods can use a yelled version, and Pandora gets the shouted version.
    AveriBoosteyaBlujixapug
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
    ArditiEilonaYilkon
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Boosteya said:
    I happen to LIKE silly. And Silly (by which I mean @Sillias).

    I WOULD like to suggest a new Jester ability, which is silly:

    GOODJOKE: Room effect, Stuns for about 1.5 seconds, chance of proning. (It's hard to stay upright when you're REALLY amused!) Possibly blocked by deafness?

    Edit: I have pulled this off IRL many times.
    I have heard your IG jokes, and no you have not.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Boosteya
  • BoosteyaBoosteya ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Xith said:
    Boosteya said:
    I happen to LIKE silly. And Silly (by which I mean @Sillias).

    I WOULD like to suggest a new Jester ability, which is silly:

    GOODJOKE: Room effect, Stuns for about 1.5 seconds, chance of proning. (It's hard to stay upright when you're REALLY amused!) Possibly blocked by deafness?

    Edit: I have pulled this off IRL many times.
    I have heard your IG jokes, and no you have not.
    @Xith: You have also not met my IRL audiences. ;)
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    Xith said:
    Boosteya said:
    I happen to LIKE silly. And Silly (by which I mean @Sillias).

    I WOULD like to suggest a new Jester ability, which is silly:

    GOODJOKE: Room effect, Stuns for about 1.5 seconds, chance of proning. (It's hard to stay upright when you're REALLY amused!) Possibly blocked by deafness?

    Edit: I have pulled this off IRL many times.
    I have heard your IG jokes, and no you have not.

    Considering what you yourself think its funny, that you were not amused may actually be a good sign.  :P

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Boosteya
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    Jovolo said:
    Katzchen said:
    If the jester wants to carry illusionary ants around in their pocket, then they can do so. However this is hardly necessary, or a good argument against it as a change.
    What is a good argument for it as a change? It's no better than itching powder.
    I wasn't the one saying it should be changed. That was a completely facetious post pointing out the idiocy of people who see 'illusionary ants' and translate it to 'must be real ants that I carry around in my pocket.' For the record I didn't even list itchpowder as one of the skills I think needs changing, though illusions are cool, so I don't really see the harm in it either.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Boosteya said:

    Xith said:
    Boosteya said:
    I happen to LIKE silly. And Silly (by which I mean @Sillias).

    I WOULD like to suggest a new Jester ability, which is silly:

    GOODJOKE: Room effect, Stuns for about 1.5 seconds, chance of proning. (It's hard to stay upright when you're REALLY amused!) Possibly blocked by deafness?

    Edit: I have pulled this off IRL many times.
    I have heard your IG jokes, and no you have not.
    @Xith: You have also not met my IRL audiences. ;)
    No, but I've met other stoners. ;)
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Marax
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,030 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I dont get how people keep confusing my idea of "hallucinating ants are crawling all over them", to "Carrying ants in their pockets"... O.o
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    They don't have lifevision/clarity.
    AsmodronAveri
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,030 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    As an addition, I particularly enjoy the idea of Jesters utilizing the art of illusions in new and fascinating ways, and i'll explain why.

    In the current world of Achaea, I find the current jester class has a hard time getting its theme across as it simply doesnt fit in with the 'medieval' era. Achaea isnt in a very 'modern time' in comparison to RL history. It still has carriages and horses to get around, occult groups and sects in the shadows, high levels of devotion and zealotry to 'greater powers/beings', usage of forage-created weapons for warfare, etc . Now add in a splash of magical involvement and you have Achaea's era. I feel the current theme of jester is ahead of this era, especially with its current skills, and tends to just seem like a waste of 'code'.

    Are they part of the religious pushes in the world? No. Are they hardened warriors/knights slicing down those that oppose their Factions? No. Are they craftsmen or alchemists (Not the class in this case) that are forging goods for their community? Sadly again, no. So then what are Jesters? They are performers for the people? Well their current makeup does not illustrate that. Their current skill-set would make one assume they are a walking joke that is going around to annoy people...also they are just not funny. Im sorry but if anyone ever laughed at someone tossing banana peels around and hooting, then I worry for your comical standards.

    So where could Jesters fit in? Firstly their skillset could be toned down to become more inclined with Achaea's current era. No more random banana peels (Frankly that joke was in the 1980s-1990s), Balloon giraffes (why do they even have balloons?), brainwashed mice (Not going to even get into this).

    THUS this is where my idea of taking illusions a step-further came from. Illusions are associated to the 'magical' pool of Achaea, and with it, Jesters could transfix and bewilder those around them with crafty images and conjurations.

    Sparks shooting around the room?
    Floor falling from beneath their foe?
    Jester disappearing in a puff of smoke? (old gimmick, I know)
    Jester creating an entire pavilion from lights that they can showcase their art to the public?

    The ideas can go on, AND would fit into Achaea's theme. As a sidenote, the Jester class can then be taken into new avenues of play, rather than being forced down the "practical prankster" route. A Jester could now be taken seriously as a zealot, as a warrior, even as a performer.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Asmo, just go add to my Mime class again.


    I think some of our ideas are just too cartoony for Achaea.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • SoulfyrianiSoulfyriani ✭✭ - Stalwart Member Posts: 18 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I think @Blujixapug‌ had an idea with merit. In Celtic/Germanic mythology dating back to the earliest of their spoken histories, the faery realm had an immense impact on their day-to-day, and the beings from that realm were known for their generally mischievous nature. Also, the sheer massiveness of the amount of fae creatures across the general scale of good/evil would allow a large measure of RP correctness between say a CIJ jester and a Mhaldorian trickster/murderer. Fae creatures were sometimes despicably evil, other times interloping pranksters, and still other times legitimately good beings. And it wouldn't make Jesters 'fae summoners' because they shouldn't be able to 'bind' or 'summon' them, just petition for help. It could even open a new way to separate house specific animal mounts based on the type of fae critter an evil Jester would petition as opposed to a good one (Brownies/Pixies for example, mind the change needed because there are pixies in Minia).
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2014
    Soulfyriani said: I think @Blujixapug‌ had an idea with merit. In Celtic/Germanic mythology dating back to the earliest of their spoken histories, the faery realm had an immense impact on their day-to-day, and the beings from that realm were known for their generally mischievous nature. Also, the sheer massiveness of the amount of fae creatures across the general scale of good/evil would allow a large measure of RP correctness between say a CIJ jester and a Mhaldorian trickster/murderer. Fae creatures were sometimes despicably evil, other times interloping pranksters, and still other times legitimately good beings. And it wouldn't make Jesters 'fae summoners' because they shouldn't be able to 'bind' or 'summon' them, just petition for help. It could even open a new way to separate house specific animal mounts based on the type of fae critter an evil Jester would petition as opposed to a good one (Brownies/Pixies for example, mind the change needed because there are pixies in Minia).
    I've played Lusternia where fae summoning is built into classes like Wiccan, where one class can summon all the above and without them being inherently good or evil (just factionalized into one territory). Maybe it's that roleplay experience that prevents me from getting on board with the fae suddenly having some inherent connection to jesters, but I could definitely see a neat series of roleplay events that could help bring that into being naturally due to the fairies, sprites, etc. of Annwyn being those who are known to play puckish games on the inhabitants of Sapience. It's certainly more in line with anything else I've read here recently about jester reskins. 

    What about neutral jesters who aren't good or evil though; for example the CIJ or those individual players who choose to be inherently neutral in their roleplay?
    Soulfyriani
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