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Jester Reskins

JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
This is a thread to channel the diversion of changing the appearance of jester abilities from the original topic in "Replacing Blackjacks". While I can't control what you post; for the sake of coherency, please post your ideas in a sensible format. Of course not everybody knows the messages for the various abilities in contention for change, so for example:

'Balloon Giraffe - I propose that the ability will instead function with the initial creation of the animal with a wished-for balloon, but the balloon then forms into the actual depicted animal, however ethereal - this further helps explain the mechanics of being able to somersault and backflip from the mount, and the untargetable nature of the mount, while removing the silliness aspect of a Mhaldorian Jester charging into war on a pink balloon Giraffe. Furthermore, allow a variety of choice for the crafting of the balloon animal, with each variation providing unique benefits. For example, the "STEP INTO TREES" ability would be bestowed to the Giraffe variation, with "RUNAWAY" instead becoming a perk of the Cheetah variation. As a final note: the actual creatures mentioned are entirely subject to change (i.e. please change them) in accordance with Achaean Lore (creatures). '

or:

ORIGINAL ABILITY:

PROPOSED CHANGE:

REASON:

As this is something @Sarapis actually asked us to do, try not to derail too much.
AveriBoosteya
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Comments

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,056 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    They summon kelpies. FEAR.


    MelodieBoosteya
  • CathyCathy Member Posts: 377 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    An event that turns out proving that jesters derive their power from the fae and that they are descended from the same lineage as the Sidhe would be pretty cool. Giving them a whimsical twist would be a nice change to this.
    Achieved dragon on the 13th of Aeguary, 634 - aged 21 and 1 month and 21 days.

    Elder dragon on the 6th of Chronos 635 - aged 22 and 8 months and 14 days.
    Sylvance
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Had actually thought of Icarus-esque constructed wings that work because 'fuck you, I'm a Jester, I make it work'. (@Aurora can, instead of zap, cause the wax construction to melt, causing heathen Jesters to plummet to the seagroundmountains*THUD!*)

    BoosteyaSylvance
  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2014
    I personally have always hated the banana peel. I would prefer they scatter bearings/sharpened jacks across the floor making people fall. Just my 2 cents.
    SybillaEilonaBoosteyaJiraishin
  • VenserVenser Member Posts: 51 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jesters are supposed to be eccentric and humorous in some way, in definition and by design. I like how it currently works.

    Yae
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,043 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    I rather enjoy @Blujixapug 's concept and I think it can be molded well, however I admit I feel the idea would perhaps change them too much as well. They would no longer be Jesters, but more of fae-summoners.

    That aside, I'll post my idea on a separate post.
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,043 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think introducing more acrobatic and illusionary themes to jesters would fit well in replacing alot of the bad elements.

    Consider that they can weave light into colorful and fanatical ways in a form of showmanship.

    - Mickeys? Can be replaced be placing an illusionary herb upon the person, so that they 'think' they consumed something when they didnt.

    - Giraffes Frankly I feel we can just remove this, if not we could always make it that the 'animal' is an 'illusionary' construct. Please remove Giraffe though..make into some fantastical beast (Jesters are if anything showmen no?)

    - Hocuspocus is already in the right element of this theme, just needs it's muttering of "hocus pocus" removed, perhaps the option of saying what you choose with the illusion.

    - Badjoke can be replaced by casting an illusion over yourself that makes you seem like a monster, and the target charges at you in shock.

    - Graffiti is in the right place for this.

    - Bananas, I frankly find funny, but could be reformed to make the floor seem to disappear under the person, and they stumble and crash to the floor in shock.

    - Itchpowder could be changed to make it seem that ants are crawling over the person's entire body, and they attempt to brush them off in a fit. If not, could make it that the jester dazes the person with illusionary lights that tic every few seconds.

    - Jack_in_the_box I dont see much of a problem with this, but it could be changed that the jester uses their fireworks and attaches them to a target, which will then explode off with the person.


    Some other fun elements that can be introduced with this: The ability for the jester to conceal themselves in the room with illusions (a surprise entrance? :P). A 'fake death' ability, a form of dramatics where the next damage the jester takes will make it seem he has just been slain. That's all I have for now, hope you like.
    TharvisShirszaeAlcinaeBoosteya
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,043 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Venser said:

    Jesters are supposed to be eccentric and humorous in some way, in definition and by design. I like how it currently works.

    They are generally suppose to be showmen and performers. A jester can be a jester without the use of balloon giraffee mounts and blackjack nose bopping..it is just frankly far more annoying and embarassing, than humorous.
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Asmodron said:

    Venser said:

    Jesters are supposed to be eccentric and humorous in some way, in definition and by design. I like how it currently works.

    They are generally suppose to be showmen and performers. A jester can be a jester without the use of balloon giraffee mounts and blackjack nose bopping..it is just frankly far more annoying and embarassing, than humorous.
    Pretty sure you are talking about Bards there. Jesters are supposed to be -comical-. The whole 'I want to play an evil clown but the mechanics make me look stupid' theme people have going on seems pretty off base. Even looking at the Joker, he uses flowers and windup teeth and joy buzzers in every incarnation besides the Heath Ledger one.

    Being funny has no place outside of Jesterdom in Achaea at the moment. Both Good and Evil hate jokes and Chaos where it used to be acceptable has become all world-endery. If you want to be a performer that isn't comical, be a bard. If you want to be Evil or Good, go Apostate or Priest, if you want to be funny Jester is the class for you. Might it be sidelined because of that? Sure. But there are other classes that are character-concept neutral to choose from, I don't see why you would want Jesters to lose their flavor so a couple of people can feel like badasses in the wrong class.
    VenserAktillumGamoneterikXith
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 3,043 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Accipiter said:

    Asmodron said:

    Venser said:

    Jesters are supposed to be eccentric and humorous in some way, in definition and by design. I like how it currently works.

    They are generally suppose to be showmen and performers. A jester can be a jester without the use of balloon giraffee mounts and blackjack nose bopping..it is just frankly far more annoying and embarassing, than humorous.
    Pretty sure you are talking about Bards there. Jesters are supposed to be -comical-. The whole 'I want to play an evil clown but the mechanics make me look stupid' theme people have going on seems pretty off base. Even looking at the Joker, he uses flowers and windup teeth and joy buzzers in every incarnation besides the Heath Ledger one.

    Being funny has no place outside of Jesterdom in Achaea at the moment. Both Good and Evil hate jokes and Chaos where it used to be acceptable has become all world-endery. If you want to be a performer that isn't comical, be a bard. If you want to be Evil or Good, go Apostate or Priest, if you want to be funny Jester is the class for you. Might it be sidelined because of that? Sure. But there are other classes that are character-concept neutral to choose from, I don't see why you would want Jesters to lose their flavor so a couple of people can feel like badasses in the wrong class.
    No, I am not. What you are thinking of is not Jesters, but of clowns. The modern concept of a clown is more related to a buffoon, which is 'funny stupidity'. A original concept of a Jester was much more than simple comedy, but had much in the thespian arts associated with it. They were always hired for great events and entertainment (not comical entertainment). Also to note, everyone is not complaining about Jesters because "they want to be an evil clown, rawr", they are complaining because the class: Doesnt fit in with Achaea, isnt very attractive to players, and frankly is just a bad image of a class design.

    If you are looking at 'Achaea Jesterdom" then you should consider the true elements. 1. Achaea is in a general medieval era, not modern, and the concept of a Jester would not and should not be associated with Mickeys, balloon giraffes and itchpowder. It should be associated with acrobatics, gimicks, showmanship, entertainment (no the current concept is everything but entertaining), and stunts.

    Lastly, Bards are a different form of entertainment. They speak lyrics and tell stories of wonder, and in Achaea's concept, are swashbuckling buccaneers. Far (But not too far) stretch from Jesters.
    KatzchenAveri
  • VenserVenser Member Posts: 51 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I've looked at different definitions of jesters, medieval and modern and they all mention and in the line of - silliness, humor, eccentric, comic, etc. (It was also written in HELP CLASS JESTERS.)

    If you don't want how the class is intended, change class or don't use those skills that are fine but wanted to be changed for your own definition of jester.

    PS: Also, what were your idea when you think of PRANKS? I don't think the skills mentioned are not out of line from that.

    Aktillum
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This is just rude.
    KuyBoosteya
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2014

    The Jester in its current incarnation cannot play anything but the fool.

    This agrees with you. Jesters cannot be serious I grant you, but that is the whole point of the class. There are 16 other classes you can choose if you want a serious character, 8 if you need a class that is alignment neutral. You may not be taken especially seriously as a jester, but that doesn't mean you can't find good RP opportunities within the irrelevant/fun loving sphere. If you want something else, QUIT CLASS is available at any time.

    Apparently I don't know how to use url tags on this board: "This" was supposed to link to http://thesaurus.com/browse/jester
    Xith
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Read the goddamn OP you lunatics.
    KuyJakiroAveriBoosteya
  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Balloon animal utility could be assimilated into chariot tarot ability, but other than that I like the idea of balloon animals taking the form of actual ethereal animals.

  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I feel some active jesters should give their opinions here after a decent time of playing. @Beya?
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Boosteya
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:

    Read the goddamn OP you lunatics.

    The OP is founded on a belief that the Jester class should be/needs to be changed, which evidently more than a handful of people disagree with. This seems like as good a place as any to discuss whether or not it should be.

    The problem seems to be that certain people want to have all of the mechanics of the Jester class without having to deal with the current nature of it. That's fine, but you have to consider all of the other people who chose the class specifically because of its nature, and they should take priority when making any decision.
    Aktillum
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:

    Jovolo said:

    Read the goddamn OP you lunatics.

    The OP is founded on a belief that the Jester class should be/needs to be changed, which evidently more than a handful of people disagree with. This seems like as good a place as any to discuss whether or not it should be.
    No. The OP is founded on:
    Sarapis said:

    Having said that, if someone wanted to do a thread listing out their view of the most problematic abilities in pranks in terms of flavor, that'd be helpful. Breaking it down into "the concept of the ability is too silly" and "the concept is fine, but the messages are too silly".

    And of course, people, especially existing Jesters, would be encouraged to give feedback.

    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    JovoloAveriJiraishin
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As Kuy said, the OP stated and is founded upon a request made by Sarapis, which heavily implies that the way certain Jester abilities appear (and consequently force the theme of the class) is intended to be changed, as apparently it's already being looked at.

    Any chance of that has now gone though, so if an admin could please rename the thread "Jester Theme" or close it, thanks.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not sure why silly jesters couldn't just add silly emotes/says to their ability usage. :-/

    It wouldn't even suffer from getting stale, since you could update any humor involved yourself!
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Asmodron said:



    If you are looking at 'Achaea Jesterdom" then you should consider the true elements. 1. Achaea is in a general medieval era, not modern, and the concept of a Jester would not

    I don't really buy this as an argument. First, Achaea is not the medieval era. It's it's own thing. Achaea has all sorts of things Earth in the medieval ages did not have, like magic (which would then invalidate every class in Achaea, since they all use magic), for instance. Or dragons. Or bras. Or widespread polytheism. This isn't a historical simulation of any sort, in other words.

    The classical era was just as big an influence on the creation/structure of Achaea. Warring city-states. Many Gods and their early interactions in the Mythos. The very name of the game (Achaea).

    And then we throw in all sorts of things from other eras and other parts of the world. Occultism is influenced as much by early 20th century Lovecraft as anything else. Targossas takes some design influence from 2000 BC Sumeria. Even individual abilities within the same class come from all over the place timeline wise. Reels (in Harmonics) are a dance no older than the 18th century while Haikus (Voicecraft) are from Japan, which had virtually no contact with medieval Europe. Blademasters are clearly influenced by Japan, while Tekura is rooted in Korean martial arts.
    XithAveri
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Jovolo said:

    As Kuy said, the OP stated and is founded upon a request made by Sarapis, which heavily implies that the way certain Jester abilities appear (and consequently force the theme of the class) is intended to be changed,

    Well, no, not really. As I said, we may at some point look at this seriously, but are just asking for feedback now.
    Jovolo
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Isn't that the point of asking for feedback on reskinning abilities? I think I misunderstood you
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    The point is asking for feedback on reskinning abilities, yes. That doesn't mean we're necessarily going to do anything with it, but if we decide to, it'll be helpful.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I'm struggling to come up with any replacement for balloon giraffes that isn't stupid. The only mount I can think of for jesters/clowns is a unicycle. And those are even more stupid. Plus I'm p sure Achaea doesn't have bicycles. And unicycles can't fly. (Balloon giraffes can fly, right? Or is that just Tarot chariots.)

    Want a unicycle so bad now. :(
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As someone who really enjoys pranks and humour, I would love to see a more neutral jester. This doesn't mean stripping them of their pranks and such, but just making them slightly more neutral/appealing/tasteful. There is more than one form of humour, and the jester is mechanically shoved into just one currently, that of turning yourself into a walking joke. Those who RP outside that are working against their skills, even if they're doing so with the concept of humour and a prankster in mind.

    I think the worst offender is peels. Hooting like a monkey? Bearings seem a good replacement, keeping with the pranks theme, while eliminating the complete absurdity and pidgeon holing the skill creates. Having an alternative or replacement to bop also seems like an important change. An illusionary giraffe seems like an interesting replacement for balloons. The hocus pocus thing on illusions actually detracts from performances, so removing that would be nice, perhaps have the jester waving their hand dramatically to summon the illusion? Jack-in-the-box I love, and wouldn't want to see changed. It's a really cool skill flavour wise I think, with just enough of the absurd to make it interesting, but not enough to force your RP, unless of course you want to play a pacifist jester... and then it shouldn't matter, since you won't be using your skills to kill people!

    @Accipiter good and evil hate jokes? Sure, they tend to be far lower key, and more tasteful, and kept private or between friends, but I can assure you not all of us do.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

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    NakariShirszae
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