Momentum vs. Prep Classes

Nellaundra

Really, I just hate knight combat cause it flat out requires the tedium of forging to get something not-shit.  No other class has it that bad. :-/

Anedhel

Check and check. I promise it's accurate (I can get you timestamps of my ab, traits list, and dsl with timestamps tomorrow, if you want).

Wunjo/nairat's okay for attacking a parried limb, but with no reliable method of forcing movement, you have to count on your enemy being a good sport and following you around.

Tree tattoo makes freezing pretty unreliable for bypassing parry (apply epteth to arms, touch tree, touch shield, problem solved).

I really don't know what knights you've been fighting, I've never seen anyone fast enough to keep you perma-curare'd. Yes, I fought Salik with his silly-goose rapiers. Was perma-clumsy, but not paralysed.

Nairat's proc rate isn't really high enough to make it viable, it's super unpredictable.

Isaz, without stacking some kind of break, is useless, unless by some miracle you're on balance, they're off balance having just used something long-balance-ish. Again, unreliable, isaz' procs aren't fixed, from what I remember.

Not to mention, all of this is predicated on all of this happening without rebounding coming up at an inconvenient time.

Look, I'm not saying it's impossible, people make it work. You just make it sound like it's this sure-fire thing that works, and it's really more about luck and your enemy being a dunce than anything else atm. The stuff you've mentioned is random and circumstantial, and that's a terrible anchor to center an argument around a class being effective or not.

ETA: There's a reason a lot more knights go for damage than DSB, from what I've observed.

Dunn

@Mizik

Tell Anedhel how to bypass parry without even needing runeblades, please.

Cooper

Anedhel's lack of knowledge about his class is kind of funny.

Antonius

Bypassing parry is nowhere near impossible, it's often not even difficult, but it can be tedious and take almost forever depending on the opponent.

Hopefully the weaponry and forging changes will solve the issues Nellaundra brought up, having to obtain the highest quality forged goods is a major turn off. It's one of the things making me really question Runewarden as a viable option after multi-class right now.

Iakimen

Hrm.

I agree with wunjo/nairat in that it's not a parry bypass that one can use regularly - it is however an alternate method of parry bypass, which is important in itself.

Freezing is amazing, actually. As you'll be doing it with epteth spam, tree tat bal tends to be taken up rather quickly prior to any actual nairat procs due to fast arm cripples (I'm talking sub 2s dsls, which should be any Runewarden which is a serious combatant, frankly. I find it rather silly for Knights to fight with subpar weapons and then apply their findings to combat at large). Certainly, you'll have a bit more trouble with it if the other has a tree tattoo as opposed to without - but it's still completely viable. Can always take an arm, too. Many options.

Er, you don't need to have him perma-curared to bypass limb parry - you just need him paralyzed for 2s. and repeat that method. Again, a few ways you can do this. Any knight can do it, really. Runies do have that speed boost, though, which helps.

Touching shield on an arm break is relevant, but as Jovolo mentioned, you can break both arms rather easily against most classes after they use balance. Similar to how a BM would quadbreak.

Didn't really explain everything, but Runies was easy parry bypass. Not as good as Monks (lol) but easy. Except Priests, with double passive curing. Thank god it's nerfed now. Even though I'm not a Runie.

Fucking Priests.

Jovolo

@Anedhel

"Curare method" that Rom was referring to - Sticking asthma and hitting with curare/gecko when they're off herb balance results in an eat kelp to smoke valerian or an eat bloodroot to cure paralysis. The former results in an 100% attempt at bypassing parry on next balance. The latter a 50% chance. (You can also pick expert diagnoser instead of sawbones to make sure you only ever capitalize on it and not waste it). 

Freeze prevents parry. Two crippled arms prevent parry. Freeze also makes balance recovery slower. I don't know what you class as being a useless proc rate for Nairat, but considering it gives two levels of freeze every single time it does proc, and we can assume it'll hit an average of once every one or two rebounding cycles, it's a lot more significant than you like to give it credit for. Especially if you've already made a large headway on salves up until that point.

Thurisaz against shielding on a two-arm is a "crutch", sure, but being able to see it a "mile-off" is hardly a bad factor. It's sort of like using a staff of illusion to imitate frenzy any time you want your opponent to crap themselves. Eventually, they'll get reckless, and then you use it for real. The same thing with Hugalaz on disembowel attempts. 

The point of including web was to provide an additional factor of preventing parry. Not the only factor; and therefore not by any means something you have to "rely on". 

Oh, and the reason more Knights go for damage than DSB is because it's bloody easier and more people fall over to it. Those people go for the effective option that requires little skill over the effective option that requires skill. - lastly, we're just saying that Runewarden has it easiest when it comes to parry bypass. It's not a comment on the rest of the class (Which is still easy as - anyway).

pretty much everyone has already had their say at this point anyway. Dead horse.

Exelethril

Just adding in to the theory, level 2 freeze is needed to bypass parry.

Mizik

Dunn said:

@Mizik

Tell Anedhel how to bypass parry without even needing runeblades, please.

There are no secrets in this game. Looks like all has been covered, anyways.

Runewarden has it much easier than all others, if the goal is to bypass parry.