Achaean languages and phonetics

Anedhel

Obviously, Achaean languages are a convoluted mix of criss-crossing real-life languages and made-up stuff, but there are, at least in some cases, pretty solid examples of what Achaean languages sound like- the most obvious example being the link between Arabic and Shallamese.

Of course, Tritonic states seem to all speak Greek, or something close to it.

What do you all suppose the major City-states' languages sound like? If there is even an approximation that makes sense. I always found it strange, for instance, that Cities would have random Chinese/Japanese-inspired Houses, that use words from those actual languages, despite the City's language not resembling either of those at all.

Racial languages obviously have their own roots and phonetic character, but I wonder if they had/have a part to play in the development of City-states' languages.

Thoughts?

Alcinae

I always held the belief that Hashani would be a mix of French, and maybe Italian (de Rothschild, de Valois, Sar'vet). That or Hungarian. Just because. EDIT: Or Esperanto!

Mhaldor, I'm guessing Russian or a Eastern language like Sanskrit or Pali judging from House names, especially the case with the Naga.

Anedhel

Interesting! Now that I think on it, Ashtan has a lot of Latin thrown in, doesn't it? City ranks are Latin, and while Archon is a Greek word, I'm pretty sure its equivalent was used in Latin-speaking places (Byzantium, for one).

ETA: If that is true, and Mhaldorian sounds like Russian, all those tells I get in Mhaldorian just got a whole lot funnier, when I read them in a Russian accent, in my head.

[Deleted User]

The Asian bits probably come because of the monk-classed houses. Which is kinda nice as opposed to having a token Asia-land city like they do in RPGs

Alcinae

As for Eleusis, I'm thinking Gaelic.

Anedhel

Yes. The Mojushai and the Ashura were the examples I was thinking of when I mentioned the Asian languages in the middle of Cities that are very obviously not Asian in any other respect.

Gaelic for Eleusis is excellent :O

Alcinae

As for Cyrene, something from a Nordic country, or Swedish. Maybe.

Anedhel

See, I always pictured Cyrene being Anglo-Germanic. Some language from that family (not quite Scandinavian languages, though).

Alcinae

Anedhel said:

See, I always pictured Cyrene being Anglo-Germanic. Some language from that family (not quite Scandinavian languages, though).

How about Dutch?

Anedhel

Would make sense! Something like that or Flemish, yeah.

Vastus

Cyrene, Dutch!? I refuse to be called a Cyrenian!

Silas

Cyrene is much more Roman than Ashtan. We all know Ashtan would speak American.

Hegua

Vastus said:

Cyrene, Dutch!? I refuse to be called a Cyrenian!

Eld

Yeah, hard to imagine Cyrene not speaking Latin.

Trevize

My mental images:

Ashtan - Latin

Hashan - Russian

Mhaldor - German

Cyrene - Dutch

Eleusis - Gaelic

Targossas/Shallam - French

Trevize

Trevize said:

My mental images:

Mhaldor - German

I had someone ask me about this. The reason is actually an old girlfriend of mine. She got so mad at someone she started shouting at him in German for almost five minutes straight.

I asked her what she said later that day, and it was actually a rather beautiful poem. It sounded incredibly harsh to someone unused to the roughness of German though, especially when shouted. I still don't think that guy has a clue what she really said.

I picture Mhaldorian being like that.

Iocun

Anedhel said:

Yes. The Mojushai and the Ashura were the examples I was thinking of when I mentioned the Asian languages in the middle of Cities that are very obviously not Asian in any other respect.

I agree in principle, and it has annoyed me for quite some time too. Just as much as, say, the use of Latin in people's mottos or other non-English words.

But for quite some time now I have accepted that it's going to stay and that going against that would take far more energy than it would be worth. Those things are simply so deeply engrained in tradition now that any change would take a huge effort to put into effect.

Silas

Spoken like a true Cyrenian.

Wysteria

Now I think of all Monk Houses as the city's local Chinatown, followed by the quote in my head, "Forget it, Marge, it's Chinatown".

Aepas

I always based the languages a bit more based on their beliefs or general appearance.

For instance, I pictured:
Shallam/targ-arabic: mainly due to the heavy influences of "good" religion that appears in the middle east, as well as a bit of architecture. Though if I remember correctly they could also be considered Russian. Didn't they have onion domes?

Mhaldor-Korean: Mainly due to the general appearance of Buddhism in Apollyon's order, as well as the oppressive atmosphere of mhaldor in general. makes a good mix for SE/Asia.

Hashan-American english: Can't really decide here, but it's generally chaotic and held the merchant guild, making me think of capitalism.

Cyrene: Dutch/German: while people usually give Germany flack for it's aggressive language, I think of it as food. This part of Europe has a large amount of pastries and meats, and have been generally kind despite the WW1/2 era.

Eleusis- Gaelic/Latin: assuming they are a foresty kind of "pretty" community, I'd only imagine eleusis to be something quite beautiful in perception.

Ashtan-Itallian: Anyone that's been to Italy for any extended time would make the connection.

Iocun

Aepas said:

Ashtan-Itallian: Anyone that's been to Italy for any extended time would make the connection.

Sorry, but Ashtan's kawhe doesn't qualify. And its leaders don't keep large enough harems.

Wysteria

Daeir said:

I actually always pictured Mhaldorian as very glottal and guttural in its sound - akin to Mongolian almost.

I was thinking it could be a bit like how I see Genji: somewhat Manchurian in regime and culture. Mongolia I think more of the Trading Posts out in the Tundra.

Kaden

Szareine said:

The Asian bits probably come because of the monk-classed houses. Which is kinda nice as opposed to having a token Asia-land city like they do in RPGs

You mean Kashar, home of the samu--blademasters? >.>

Aepas said:

I always based the languages a bit more based on their beliefs or general appearance.

For instance, I pictured:
Shallam/targ-arabic: mainly due to the heavy influences of "good" religion that appears in the middle east, as well as a bit of architecture. Though if I remember correctly they could also be considered Russian. Didn't they have onion domes?

Mhaldor-Korean: Mainly due to the general appearance of Buddhism in Apollyon's order, as well as the oppressive atmosphere of mhaldor in general. makes a good mix for SE/Asia.

Hashan-American english: Can't really decide here, but it's generally chaotic and held the merchant guild, making me think of capitalism.

Cyrene: Dutch/German: while people usually give Germany flack for it's aggressive language, I think of it as food. This part of Europe has a large amount of pastries and meats, and have been generally kind despite the WW1/2 era.

Eleusis- Gaelic/Latin: assuming they are a foresty kind of "pretty" community, I'd only imagine eleusis to be something quite beautiful in perception.

Ashtan-Italian: Anyone that's been to Italy for any extended time would make the connection.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeees...I can see it...

Ourania

Hashan is heavily based on Germany in architecture and some of its title use, with some French thrown in. 

Aepas

Daeir said:

I actually always pictured Mhaldorian as very glottal and guttural in its sound - akin to Mongolian almost.

I did have this mindset for a long time. However, the more I thought about it I do believe that SE asia languages fit better with it.

I believe this just comes from the whole idea that harsher languages are generally scary sounding. However I have never found mhaldor to be as "scary" as it is "cruel" which is why I believe the SE asia fits a bit better. Historically, I believe SE asia are some of the meanest mofos out there. No offense of course, it's a new era. Still, Asia has been a very powerful and cruel place for a long time.

Sarapis

Iocun said:

Anedhel said:

Yes. The Mojushai and the Ashura were the examples I was thinking of when I mentioned the Asian languages in the middle of Cities that are very obviously not Asian in any other respect.

I agree in principle, and it has annoyed me for quite some time too. Just as much as, say, the use of Latin in people's mottos or other non-English words.

But for quite some time now I have accepted that it's going to stay and that going against that would take far more energy than it would be worth. Those things are simply so deeply engrained in tradition now that any change would take a huge effort to put into effect.

Given how much inter-city interaction there is in Achaea, and how fluidly people move between cities, visit other cities, etc, what would be surprising would be -any- purity of naming in any city. I live in San Francisco, and I can go to places where I hear Italian, Chinese, English, French, Vietnamese, Russian, Japanese, etc spoken. Central sapience is a melting pot. 

Wysteria

Daeir said:

I have to admit, Cyrenian has always sounded like Simlish (the language used in the Sims games) in my head.

Waktarf garh noodle.

Or in Civ II with them randomly going, "Haberdashery".

Iocun

Sarapis said:

Iocun said:

Anedhel said:

Yes. The Mojushai and the Ashura were the examples I was thinking of when I mentioned the Asian languages in the middle of Cities that are very obviously not Asian in any other respect.

I agree in principle, and it has annoyed me for quite some time too. Just as much as, say, the use of Latin in people's mottos or other non-English words.

But for quite some time now I have accepted that it's going to stay and that going against that would take far more energy than it would be worth. Those things are simply so deeply engrained in tradition now that any change would take a huge effort to put into effect.

Given how much inter-city interaction there is in Achaea, and how fluidly people move between cities, visit other cities, etc, what would be surprising would be -any- purity of naming in any city. I live in San Francisco, and I can go to places where I hear Italian, Chinese, English, French, Vietnaese, Russian, Japanese, etc spoken. Central sapience is a melting pot. 

Yes, a melting pot between Achaean cultures. All Achaean languages are represented in English, to us.

Fitz

Of course Ashtan is an admixture of Romance languages. It's the original seat of western religion! It is the Rome to Shallam's Jerusalem and Targ's Byzantium!

Fen

Aepas said:

Ashtan-Itallian: Anyone that's been to Italy for any extended time would make the connection.

I lived in Italy for most of my childhood on into adolescence. I don't see it.