Bashing ratings

Riplakish

So I was wondering if you where to list each of the classes bashing skills by order of most damaging to least what would it look like? my estimate is something like this but I need help filling in the blanks.

1. Monk (sdk;ucp;ucp)

.....

8. Sumac

9. Punch

Sena

I don't have good data for most bashing attacks.

SDK/UCP/UCP: Varies greatly depending on stance. At 14 strength (the only data point I have), unstanced damage is 278+138+138=554, scorpion stance is 361+148+148=657. Dragon stance is somewhat random (maybe other stances, but I've only seen variation in dragon), sdk doing either 334 or 276 and ucp doing 148, 159, or 179. I can't find any notes on balance times in various stances, so someone else will have to provide that.

DSL: Depends on weapon stats. Assuming trans weaponry+chivalry, damage (before strength modifier) is 100+DamageStat (per weapon), balance (before nimble) is 6.9-SpeedStat/50. So DSL with unruned Soulpiercers (90 damage, 228 speed) would have about 162.4 DPS. I'm not sure exactly how balance is calculated when the two weapons are different, but using the average is probably a close enough estimation.
Single weapon attack: Basically just half of a DSL, though if you only have trans weaponry and not trans chivalry, balance is 7-SpeedStat/50 (a tenth of a second slower).

Sumac: 100 damage, 3 seconds of balance (before nimble), so 33.3 DPS. Silver fangs increase the damage by 15%.
Camus: 400 damage, 3 seconds of balance (before nimble), so 133.33 DPS. silver fangs increase the damage by 15%.
Garrote: Depends on whip stats. Assuming trans subterfuge, damage is 300+3*DamageStat, balance (before nimble) is 7-SpeedStat/50. So with an unruned level 3 lash (65 damage, 225 speed), DPS is 198.

Scratch: 100 damage (before strength), 4s balance (before nimble), 25 DPS.
Bite: 200 damage (before strength), 4s balance (before nimble), 50 DPS.
Claw: 300 damage (before strength), 4s balance (before nimble), 75 DPS. Wolverine morph can use reflexes with scratch, reducing the balance to 3s, for 100 DPS.
Maul: 500 damage (before strength), 4s balance (before nimble), 125 DPS. With reflexes, balance is 3s, for 166.7 DPS.

Educe iron (alchemist bashing attack): 545 damage (with trans alchemy, before intelligence), 4s equilibrium (before quick-witted), 136.25 DPS.

Staffcast: 460 damage (before intelligence), 4s equilibrium (before quick-witted), 115 DPS.

Drawslash: Damage (before strength) is 427+23x, with x being, respectively, -3, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3 for Thyr, Mir, Unstanced, Sanya, Doya, Arash. Artefact bands add +1 per level to that. Balance (before nimble) is 2.5 seconds unstanced, with Thyr, Arash, Mir, and Doya modifying balance by -10%, -5%, +20%, +20%. Bands reduce the balance cost by 5% per level. So drawslash in Arash with a level 3 band would do 565 damage at about 2 seconds of balance, for 282.5 DPS.

Dragons
Blast: 1000 damage, unaffected by stats. Not sure on balance.
Incantation: 951 damage at 18 intelligence (default dragon intelligence). Not 100% sure on equilibrium, but around 4s.
Gut: 1034 damage at 18 strength (default dragon strength). Not 100% sure on balance, but somewhere around 3s.

Sylvance

I appreciate that this isn't a direct answer to your question (I don't know the answer, sorry!) but I've seen @Tecton say in another thread that in terms of straight dps the classes are fairly balanced. Depending on why you're asking this question, that may or may not be helpful.

Cynlael

If Imperian / Aetolia is anything to go by. Then unartied, for straight damage and not DPS (no crits at all), it's Staffcast > Maul > Monk combo, then the rest are pretty close. (DSL slot depends on what weapons you use)

Riplakish

wow really!? the maul of a hyena is better than a sidekick+2xuppercuts? I'm a monk and thought they were by far the best for bashing. Thanks for the info

wait Maul first happens later hyena has CLAW. Sry. When does maul become an option and is it really better?

Antonius

Important parts to pick out from Cynlael's post:

"Imperian / Aetolia" - it may not be the same on Achaea, though it's likely to be reasonably close.
"Straight damage and not DPS" - DPS is the important factor, even ignoring crits.
"(no crits at all)" - you will eventually start getting critical hits, and can potentially get a quite high crit chance, classes with a multiple hit bashing attack (monk combo or doubleslash, for example) benefit more from this.

At high level, Monk outstrips pretty much everything for bashing. At low level there are potentially better options, I'm not sure, but if you're currently a monk and you're interested primarily in bashing, I wouldn't suggest switching.

Eld

Riplakish said:

wow really!? the maul of a hyena is better than a sidekick+2xuppercuts? I'm a monk and thought they were by far the best for bashing. Thanks for the info

wait Maul first happens later hyena has CLAW. Sry. When does maul become an option and is it really better?

It really depends on what you mean by better. Maul (which is jaguar, not hyena, by the way) may do more damage, but still be a worse bashing attack when you take into account the balance. If you're just talking about efficiency for bashing, you want to be looking at damage per second (DPS), as well is balance in itself (faster attacks are better at constant DPS), and possibly things like endurance/willpower drain.

Riplakish

PS are any druids available to induct me since I am too old for certimene to do so?

Iocun

Lothiac bashes me just fine with staffcast.

Riplakish

Daeir said:

Staffcast doesn't feel quite so amazing as everyone makes it out to be. Would love to see solid stats on bashing damage.

I summon @Sena!

That's exactly what I am looking for too! Thanks @Daeir

Riplakish

Lets see some solid stats for bashing dmg.

Sena

I forgot about brawling. Interestingly, brawling attacks scale to the max health of the denizen, meaning that they deal insane damage against stronger denizens. That's not actually useful though, since you'll have a hard time ever hitting strong denizens with them.

Punch: 50+MaxHealth/20 damage (before strength), 3.5s balance (before nimble).
Kick: 70+MaxHealth/25 damage (before strength), 4.3s balance (before nimble).
Headslam: 70+MaxHealth/25 damage (before strength), 4.2s balance (before nimble). Also stuns you for 0.1s.

Teghaine

No love for accenato?
Aww...

Seftin

Any ideas on shaman bleed?

Sena

Seftin said:

Any ideas on shaman bleed?

Some discussion on it here, but the numbers I have are a bit outdated, I'm not sure exactly what it's like now.

Seftin

Thanks @sena. If you need any testinglet me know.

Borran

So does this mean Sanya does not alter balance time?

Trevize

Borran said:

So does this mean Sanya does not alter balance time?

Correct. My notes on BM were as follows: (and mesh with Sena's)

Thyr  - 10% faster, -3 damage

Mir   - 20% slower, -1 damage, +defense

Sanya -             +1 damage

Arash -  5% faster, +3 damage, -defense

Doya  - 20% slower, +2 damage

Note that +#damage is not actually +1 or +2, but a rank of +damage, higher number is more/less respectively.

Also, if I remember right, unstanced is actually better than thyr for hunting. Sanya is best. Even taking crits into account. (crits/overkill does make thyr closer to sanya than straight dps indicates, but sanya still wins - more so on larger health enemies)

Eld

Borran said:

So does this mean Sanya does not alter balance time?

Not measurably, from what I've seen.

Rangor

@sena what do you use to see the damage your bashing attacks to do denizens? Do you have some super secret trick, or is it still falcons that's the popular testing reference.

Sena

Rangor said:

@sena what do you use to see the damage your bashing attacks to do denizens? Do you have some super secret trick, or is it still falcons that's the popular testing reference.

Still falcons. I think baalzadeens would also work, but knights are much easier to find than apostates.

Eld

Just use a falcon. Even if there is some better way out there (which I don't think there is), the little f---ers deserve the abuse.

Sidonia

Slight necro, but I just tested Bard damage.
With a 66 damage 235 speed rapier and 12 strength/intelligence, I got 266 damage on jab, 252 on accentato for 518 total.
225 DPS before nimble/canticle, which would put Bards close to the top in terms of bashing damage output.