Combat Logs

Cooper

The resist all has never made sense to me either.

Knights are forced to build momentum up against the best momentum classes in order to kill them???

The damage doesn't need to come from anywhere else, the ability (disembowel OR the Psion resist all) needs changed so that Psion isn't immune to a class finisher.

We agree with the solution at least!

Proficy

No @cooper you have to not only build up momentum to finish... you have to somehow build up momentum AND still as a runewarden sketch for additional damage to help assist your extended prep going around aura and parry.

I mean just hope and pray they do not pre apply, have any sort of passive or active heal and pause there curing to somehow let DwC softlock you (which they can not)... THEN have to sit there and watch you sketch runes which take 2-4 seconds depending on the rune you do, while NOT sipping health in between that because you still need momentum damage or afflictions as well to even TRY and finish.

But wait, you still need fully maximized offense with all the artefacts before you consider this route. I dont know why i didnt think about this or see it before. I forget im such a newb some times.

oh and for more giggles. I guess you dont even need to be fully defensively maxed out to survive it. Just need the class.

https://ada-young.com/pastebin/W784xd_p

Kog

Don't worry they're in a water room, your thurisaz won't work. It'll be fine!

Mizik

Agree that resist all in class skills is an unhealthy mechanic.

Adrik

I'm honestly a little unsure why Serpents get decentish armour and a resist all-- ontop of being able to dodge. Sure, they can't dodge most of the new classes... Or even parry them. But resist all makes a LOT of things very wonky.

For reference: Psion's have about an 18% resist all. Making them actually more resistant to Sentinel's freeze pound and skullbash than dragons, and every other class in the game (Since those are static damage numbers not affected by armour).

It's kind of insane.

Atalkez

Yeah the reasoning for psion having such a high resist all is that they don't get to wear armour. Not a fan of that, either, myself. Let them wear leather/ringmail and reduce the resist all.

Eryl

I agree that resist all is silly.

Kog

I think the issue is more in how resistall resolves. Currently, 'all' includes 'unblockable'. I think if you changed that, then you could leave the resists in place exactly as they are, but finishers would work properly. And if there's a case where resistall is blocking a kill in that scheme, then the damage type or formula of the kill itself probably needs to be evaluated, so it gives the desired effect.

Shecks

@Kog not sure I personally agree on that one. I think resistall, especially BIG ones like on Psion, is bad in general - it's just more apparent with finishers as it's a very binary thing (killing or not). Personally I don't think that any class should be able to indefinitely tank a full L3 artied Knight with just typical sip/moss/regen.

I also don't understand at all why you'd make a class "no armor" then give them 18% resist all (assuming above is correct). That's MUCH BETTER than just having good armor. They made the class weaker because of it's many strengths, but because it has a weakness they gave it a massive strength, making it one of the tankiest classes? The logic doesn't check out.

(and no bias here either, I don't play damage classes outside of raids).

Iaxus

I just wanna throw this comment in the ring for consideration also: Psion has an 18% resistall and (as stated above) is pretty strong offensively. What's psion's downside?

Shecks

Psion is super strong in 1v1 offensively, super strong in teamfights offensively, is completely immune to venomlocks in 1v1 combat, and has the highest damage resist in the game, defensively, especially considering they can still wear clotharmour with SoA and 2 other resists + cauldron etc. It also has a hindrance that works while they're out of room (which is an insanely strong defensive advantage, noting the classlead to fix this was rejected), and can for the most part ignore Mind Lock / telepathy. Throw in a class-specific instant global fast travel ability that works multiple times. The also get an on-demand entangle that afaik doesn't have a RNG element to fail like with reworked Hangedman, which is something we already removed from the game for balance reasons, then apparently added it back in for Psion for some reason?

tl;dr is that they're pretty decent offensively (not top 3 but still quite strong) but could definitely make a top-3 list for strongest defensive classes in the game, IMO.

The whole class is pretty ridiculous if you ask this old dude. Reading the abilities on the wiki just makes me think the design process was "Let's just put every OP ability in the game on one character and see what happens?". They even get crit bonus + Plane-razing crits as a class ability, because why not throw in a ridiculous advantage to PvE while we're at it, on top of being insanely tanky vs all enemies and the unique ability to scale with two different main stats.

Most of this is subjective, however the "can't be venomlocked thing" isn't at all, this is just a basic fact (assuming the psion plays even remotely competently). It's a problem I can't believe has been allowed to exist, considering that there are a few classes that don't function at all if you take away the threat of venomlocks (serpent ofc is completely neutered but other classes lose their fork which allows the psion to purely focus on preventing their other killpath since the fork to venomlock isn't an option).

Will say this: I added an API check alias in Mudlet specifically to check to see if people are in Psion, becuase as a serpent main, if my opponent is in Psion, it's 100% pointless to fight them. Literally impossible to win even against a midbie assuming they have their copy/pasted curing system configured correctly. That's pretty lame.

I know this conversation is about resists, not Expunge, but I think that having BOTH ridiculous damage resist and Expunge (and also lightbinding + tumble) at the same time is exponentially worse, as there's no plan B available really. With other classes that are super hard to lock, I can always pivot to another class. With Psion it's like..... yeah I'll try again later when they're not in Psion I guess. They even gave psion a way to farsee specifically through Phase, because apparently being immune to venomlocks wasn't enough of a class matchup nutpunch.

Namino

Psion doesn't have a downside afaik. A lot is being made of its resistall, but in reality it also has the by far best active aff cure for healing our of lock attempts and several defensive moves (two separate gtfo teleports with projections and waves, as well as two health boosts, one of which works prone). They are unparriable and break limbs Hella quick with good hinder and a movement hinder that operates out of room, and their forking with unweaves is brutal.

There's a reason so many psions were represented in the nameless tournament, and why both Farrah and Penwize chose it for that.

Gallida

Psion is easily one of the top three classes in the game unartied and it stays very competitive as arties get added to the equation. It doesn't even suffer for group fights to make up for being great at one-on-one.

Basically, Psion is good enough at everything that you need a reason **not** to use it. It needs actual downsides and weaknesses, not "Well, they have a small affliction pool and they need to time their limb breaks with their afflictions...".

Mizik

Every time I play Psion I find myself saying outloud how beautifully designed it is. It really is a gorgeous class. Top end jumping, decent 1v1, unique utility.

I'd love to see projects opened to bring the low performance/less played classes to a modern par, like we've done before with seasonal classleads. 2-3 classes at a time, on a schedule for the year. Flavour, utility, faction conflict (exterm etc) - I think we'd get productive outcomes if the player base focused at once.

Romaen

Psion is crazy

Shecks

In principle I agree that the class (having been setting it up and exploring it in a bit more depth for the last 2 days) is pretty unique and really cool, however I still don't understand why such an offensively strong class needs to be so defensively powerful. Expunge and Manipulate in particulare stand out as pretty absurdly strong abilities on a class with outstanding slow prep, and a prone mana restore on a class that doesn't use mana is pretty damn strong too.

I'm all for some matchups being harder than others but sure feels like Psion just absolutely trounces about half the classes in the game purely because of it's immunity to several major categories of killpaths (when used correctly).

Mizik

It's good for classes to be strong. Strong classes sell. It's always bad for classes to be weak.

Your sentiments above @Shecks are the reason I play Serpent, as well. I don't have to worry about dying to half the classes because of Evade, damage finishers don't matter because I have a resist all in Scales and for the rest I have Shrugging.

I have Runewarden SNB because it boosts all my other classes with Runebinding, and it's mostly almost impossible to kill while one shotting any opponent indiscriminately. It's super boring and hardly worth playing, but Runebinding saves me 2250cr just in Jera.

Then I have Apostate. Apostate is the dream.

I typically have zero problem surviving or killing Psion other than in Serpent, obviously, who they're intended to counter. Serpent should never lose to Psion, however.

Caelan

I chose Sentinel because it was the weakest (circa 1998)

Now everyone says it is OP so I made it look weak again. I win 😄

Romaen

damage finishers don't matter because I have a resist all in Scales

one shotting any opponent indiscriminately

Which is it, @Mizik. Which is it.

Mizik

The second one is more true than the first.

Kog

@Atalkez survived a l1 torso dsb once and I spent hours searching to figure out what that "medal of heroism" thing was that let him tank it. Stupid serpents.

Atalkez

So many people ask about that amulet, it's lovely. Mind games, baby.

Iaxus

That's because you have the damn thing set to touch it every other sip or some shit. Issuing for spam.

Atalkez

4th actually, ho

Estinien

Anyone got any hot DW logs? Search didn't find anything and I really don't want to sift through 300 pages of talk to find one log.

Moroa

Ada's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.

Ada takes a long drag off an enamel bubble pipe.

In an uninterrupted motion, Ada slides a savage, Eleusian sword into an Eleusian ivy and thorn baldric.

Argent thorns dim across Ada's baldric, wire threads losing some lustre as ivy enshrouds them once more.

Ada starts to wield a runic totem in her hands.

Ada strains to hold a tall totem pole in an upright position.

Tesha has bled out, slain by the might of Guardian Vothaec in The Collosea en Duir.

Your enhanced senses inform you that Tesha has entered Spectator stands in the Collosea en Duir, to the west.

Vothaec steps triumphantly from the portal, the look of victory in his eyes.

Your enhanced senses inform you that Vothaec has entered Staging grounds for the Collosea en Duir at your location.

Vothaec's eyes uncloud as a wunjo rune heals his blindness.

Ethereal bonds flash forth to bind Vothaec as his gaze falls upon a nairat rune.

Vothaec's limbs lock up as his eyes meet an inguz rune on a totem.

Vothaec's eyes close suddenly as he falls asleep.

The Arena is once again open for combat.

Mizik

#mechanics

39) You told Mort: It's best to avoid sentinels in general as a momentum class.

40) Mort told You: Well that's no fun. There's not much I can do against them?

41) You told Mort: There is nothing you can do against noose and slow limb prep.

42) Mort told You: Okay.

43) You told Mort: Of course, in this world.

44) You told Mort: One must append 'currently' to any such statement.

45) You told Mort: Any broken thing such as that is a classlead away from being fixed.

46) Mort told You: Ah. Good to know.

47) Mort told You: Seems because I was parrying so poorly, He was prepping one limb after another,

until the final showdown.

48) You told Mort: Yes. He is a notorious slow prepper.

49) Mort told You: Is there anything I can do once I know a limb is prepped, except for running away

and not coming back?

50) You told Mort: Not really.

Saonji

What a shit combat log.

No timestamps, even.

Lyrin

In the interest of providing young and impressionable players with a diversity of views...

40) Mort told You: Well that's no fun. There's not much I can do against them?

41) You told Mort: There is nothing you can do against noose and slow limb prep.

• For noose, check AB SURVIVAL BLUNDER, any class skill which allows you to manipulate peoples' enemy lists, HELP ARTIFACTS SENTINEL (the miniature toolkit can be used by any class), LEGENDDECK SEARCH PARNI, TALISMAN SHOW SIRENSONG.
• For limb prep, static parry on leg + appropriate hemophilia priority allows you to avoid prep strategies that involve two broken legs. The single leg strategies are very susceptible to tumbling over wall, class healing abilities and shielding/hindering when the first break happens. Sentinel's attack which gives haemophilia (their parry bypass) is 2.5s when fully artied, so is extremely slow and easy to work around.

49) Mort told You: Is there anything I can do once I know a limb is prepped, except for running away and not coming back?

• You can create a set of client side scripts which recognise when your limbs are hit by enemy attacks, track the accumulated damage and warn you when you're close to a break. This is by no means simple, but makes a huge difference when fighting against limb damage classes like monk, knight, blademaster and sentinel.

Shecks

Hrm, I've never heard of Blunder until now. I'm struggling to think of a use case for this other than maybe people who might hold enemy until a critical moment to prevent you from pre-clearing ground runes/traps. Maybe you could use it in group fights to sacrifice a novice to clear out traps before rushing (seems both brutal and obscure...)?

For reference:

(ab survival blunder)

Regarding self-limb counting, SLC is pretty good for this but needs updated with new classes / recent changes. On my ToDo list for sure.