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Combat Logs

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  • Cooper
    Cooper Member Posts: 5,800 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    The resist all has never made sense to me either.


    Knights are forced to build momentum up against the best momentum classes in order to kill them???


    The damage doesn't need to come from anywhere else, the ability (disembowel OR the Psion resist all) needs changed so that Psion isn't immune to a class finisher.


    We agree with the solution at least!


  • Proficy
    Proficy Member Posts: 443 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    No @cooper you have to not only build up momentum to finish... you have to somehow build up momentum AND still as a runewarden sketch for additional damage to help assist your extended prep going around aura and parry.

    I mean just hope and pray they do not pre apply, have any sort of passive or active heal and pause there curing to somehow let DwC softlock you (which they can not)... THEN have to sit there and watch you sketch runes which take 2-4 seconds depending on the rune you do, while NOT sipping health in between that because you still need momentum damage or afflictions as well to even TRY and finish.

    But wait, you still need fully maximized offense with all the artefacts before you consider this route. I dont know why i didnt think about this or see it before. I forget im such a newb some times.


    oh and for more giggles. I guess you dont even need to be fully defensively maxed out to survive it. Just need the class.

    https://ada-young.com/pastebin/W784xd_p

  • Kog
    Kog Member Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Don't worry they're in a water room, your thurisaz won't work. It'll be fine!

  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,260 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Agree that resist all in class skills is an unhealthy mechanic.

    image
  • Adrik
    Adrik Member Posts: 739 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I'm honestly a little unsure why Serpents get decentish armour and a resist all-- ontop of being able to dodge. Sure, they can't dodge most of the new classes... Or even parry them. But resist all makes a LOT of things very wonky.


    For reference: Psion's have about an 18% resist all. Making them actually more resistant to Sentinel's freeze pound and skullbash than dragons, and every other class in the game (Since those are static damage numbers not affected by armour).


    It's kind of insane.

  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Yeah the reasoning for psion having such a high resist all is that they don't get to wear armour. Not a fan of that, either, myself. Let them wear leather/ringmail and reduce the resist all.





    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • Eryl
    Eryl Member Posts: 352 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I agree that resist all is silly.

  • Kog
    Kog Member Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I think the issue is more in how resistall resolves. Currently, 'all' includes 'unblockable'. I think if you changed that, then you could leave the resists in place exactly as they are, but finishers would work properly. And if there's a case where resistall is blocking a kill in that scheme, then the damage type or formula of the kill itself probably needs to be evaluated, so it gives the desired effect.

    DochithaCooper
  • Shecks
    Shecks Member Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 31

    @Kog not sure I personally agree on that one. I think resistall, especially BIG ones like on Psion, is bad in general - it's just more apparent with finishers as it's a very binary thing (killing or not). Personally I don't think that any class should be able to indefinitely tank a full L3 artied Knight with just typical sip/moss/regen.

    I also don't understand at all why you'd make a class "no armor" then give them 18% resist all (assuming above is correct). That's MUCH BETTER than just having good armor. They made the class weaker because of it's many strengths, but because it has a weakness they gave it a massive strength, making it one of the tankiest classes? The logic doesn't check out.

    (and no bias here either, I don't play damage classes outside of raids).

  • Iaxus
    Iaxus Member Posts: 367 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I just wanna throw this comment in the ring for consideration also: Psion has an 18% resistall and (as stated above) is pretty strong offensively. What's psion's downside?


    Jumpy said:
    The membership is already such a good deal that there is no way we can reduce the cost. 

  • Shecks
    Shecks Member Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 31

    Psion is super strong in 1v1 offensively, super strong in teamfights offensively, is completely immune to venomlocks in 1v1 combat, and has the highest damage resist in the game, defensively, especially considering they can still wear clotharmour with SoA and 2 other resists + cauldron etc. It also has a hindrance that works while they're out of room (which is an insanely strong defensive advantage, noting the classlead to fix this was rejected), and can for the most part ignore Mind Lock / telepathy. Throw in a class-specific instant global fast travel ability that works multiple times. The also get an on-demand entangle that afaik doesn't have a RNG element to fail like with reworked Hangedman, which is something we already removed from the game for balance reasons, then apparently added it back in for Psion for some reason?

    tl;dr is that they're pretty decent offensively (not top 3 but still quite strong) but could definitely make a top-3 list for strongest defensive classes in the game, IMO.

    The whole class is pretty ridiculous if you ask this old dude. Reading the abilities on the wiki just makes me think the design process was "Let's just put every OP ability in the game on one character and see what happens?". They even get crit bonus + Plane-razing crits as a class ability, because why not throw in a ridiculous advantage to PvE while we're at it, on top of being insanely tanky vs all enemies and the unique ability to scale with two different main stats.

    Most of this is subjective, however the "can't be venomlocked thing" isn't at all, this is just a basic fact (assuming the psion plays even remotely competently). It's a problem I can't believe has been allowed to exist, considering that there are a few classes that don't function at all if you take away the threat of venomlocks (serpent ofc is completely neutered but other classes lose their fork which allows the psion to purely focus on preventing their other killpath since the fork to venomlock isn't an option).


    Will say this: I added an API check alias in Mudlet specifically to check to see if people are in Psion, becuase as a serpent main, if my opponent is in Psion, it's 100% pointless to fight them. Literally impossible to win even against a midbie assuming they have their copy/pasted curing system configured correctly. That's pretty lame.

    I know this conversation is about resists, not Expunge, but I think that having BOTH ridiculous damage resist and Expunge (and also lightbinding + tumble) at the same time is exponentially worse, as there's no plan B available really. With other classes that are super hard to lock, I can always pivot to another class. With Psion it's like..... yeah I'll try again later when they're not in Psion I guess. They even gave psion a way to farsee specifically through Phase, because apparently being immune to venomlocks wasn't enough of a class matchup nutpunch.

  • Namino
    Namino Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Psion doesn't have a downside afaik. A lot is being made of its resistall, but in reality it also has the by far best active aff cure for healing our of lock attempts and several defensive moves (two separate gtfo teleports with projections and waves, as well as two health boosts, one of which works prone). They are unparriable and break limbs Hella quick with good hinder and a movement hinder that operates out of room, and their forking with unweaves is brutal.

    There's a reason so many psions were represented in the nameless tournament, and why both Farrah and Penwize chose it for that.

    image

  • Gallida
    Gallida Member Posts: 223 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 31

    Psion is easily one of the top three classes in the game unartied and it stays very competitive as arties get added to the equation. It doesn't even suffer for group fights to make up for being great at one-on-one.

    Basically, Psion is good enough at everything that you need a reason **not** to use it. It needs actual downsides and weaknesses, not "Well, they have a small affliction pool and they need to time their limb breaks with their afflictions...".

  • Romaen
    Romaen LondonMember Posts: 46

    Psion is crazy

  • Shecks
    Shecks Member Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    In principle I agree that the class (having been setting it up and exploring it in a bit more depth for the last 2 days) is pretty unique and really cool, however I still don't understand why such an offensively strong class needs to be so defensively powerful. Expunge and Manipulate in particulare stand out as pretty absurdly strong abilities on a class with outstanding slow prep, and a prone mana restore on a class that doesn't use mana is pretty damn strong too.

    I'm all for some matchups being harder than others but sure feels like Psion just absolutely trounces about half the classes in the game purely because of it's immunity to several major categories of killpaths (when used correctly).

  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,260 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    It's good for classes to be strong. Strong classes sell. It's always bad for classes to be weak.

    Your sentiments above @Shecks are the reason I play Serpent, as well. I don't have to worry about dying to half the classes because of Evade, damage finishers don't matter because I have a resist all in Scales and for the rest I have Shrugging.

    I have Runewarden SNB because it boosts all my other classes with Runebinding, and it's mostly almost impossible to kill while one shotting any opponent indiscriminately. It's super boring and hardly worth playing, but Runebinding saves me 2250cr just in Jera.

    Then I have Apostate. Apostate is the dream.


    I typically have zero problem surviving or killing Psion other than in Serpent, obviously, who they're intended to counter. Serpent should never lose to Psion, however.

    image
    Dochitha
  • Caelan
    Caelan Member Posts: 2,791 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 1

    I chose Sentinel because it was the weakest (circa 1998)


    Now everyone says it is OP so I made it look weak again. I win 😄


  • Romaen
    Romaen LondonMember Posts: 46

    damage finishers don't matter because I have a resist all in Scales


    one shotting any opponent indiscriminately


    Which is it, @Mizik. Which is it.

  • Mizik
    Mizik Member Posts: 2,260 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    The second one is more true than the first.

    image
    Romaen
  • Kog
    Kog Member Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Atalkez survived a l1 torso dsb once and I spent hours searching to figure out what that "medal of heroism" thing was that let him tank it. Stupid serpents.

  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    So many people ask about that amulet, it's lovely. Mind games, baby.





    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • Iaxus
    Iaxus Member Posts: 367 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    That's because you have the damn thing set to touch it every other sip or some shit. Issuing for spam.


    Jumpy said:
    The membership is already such a good deal that there is no way we can reduce the cost. 

    MizikDochithaRomaen
  • Atalkez
    Atalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    4th actually, ho





    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    DochithaRomaenCaelanIaxus
  • Estinien
    Estinien Member Posts: 15

    Anyone got any hot DW logs? Search didn't find anything and I really don't want to sift through 300 pages of talk to find one log.

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