Minor Traits

Eld

Nyboe said:

Eld said:

Nyboe said:

Sylvance said:

Sasiya said:

You could add a few flavour traits for all classes and put them in their own category. Like... you get a class trait slot at level 40 and you could have your herb-things or totem-things or shin-things there or whatnot.

No. Shin. Buffs.

Fine, then give BM accuracy buff.

It's called Thyr.

I still can't hit avoidance serpents. Not even just serpents, I am missing against any artied dex spec avoidance classes like about 20 percent of the time. And I don't use Thyr stance, shin gain after every infusion only nets to 3 which is slow. I guess I should stop infusing on every attack, which is a dumb concept if I do have to turn to that.

Infusions are a tradeoff. I don't see why it's dumb to have to decide whether the benefit you get from an infusion is worth the shin it costs you. Not infusing on every attack is no more dumb than only ever using one of your five stances (which I gather is what you're doing, if your complaint about thyr is shin gain).

Shirszae

Nyboe said:

Eld said:

Nyboe said:

Sylvance said:

Sasiya said:

You could add a few flavour traits for all classes and put them in their own category. Like... you get a class trait slot at level 40 and you could have your herb-things or totem-things or shin-things there or whatnot.

No. Shin. Buffs.

Fine, then give BM accuracy buff.

It's called Thyr.

I still can't hit avoidance serpents. Not even just serpents, I am missing against any artied dex spec avoidance classes like about 20 percent of the time. And I don't use Thyr stance, shin gain after every infusion only nets to 3 which is slow. I guess I should stop infusing on every attack, which is a dumb concept if I do have to turn to that.

I think thats the point of avoidance and dex.

Sylvance

Honestly, I always look forward to anything Nyboe posts about Blademasters.

Traxtin

Nyboe said:

Eld said:

Nyboe said:

Sylvance said:

Sasiya said:

You could add a few flavour traits for all classes and put them in their own category. Like... you get a class trait slot at level 40 and you could have your herb-things or totem-things or shin-things there or whatnot.

No. Shin. Buffs.

Fine, then give BM accuracy buff.

It's called Thyr.

I still can't hit avoidance serpents. Not even just serpents, I am missing against any artied dex spec avoidance classes like about 20 percent of the time. And I don't use Thyr stance, shin gain after every infusion only nets to 3 which is slow. I guess I should stop infusing on every attack, which is a dumb concept if I do have to turn to that.

So what I read here was:
"when people spec for dexterity and avoidance I can still hit them 80% of the time!"

In which case what I say to you is:
"You think missing 20% of the time is not a fair trade when fighting against someone who has decreased their strength and constitution for increased dexterity and has spent at LEAST 500 credits on an artefact? What?"

Iocun

Also consider that if you say "avoidance serpents", you must mean "avoidance serpents with weaving up", because that's the one thing that would boost a serpent's avoidance. Weaving drains willpower. Blademasters are good at draining willpower. So use that to your advantage.

Personally, I do not use weaving against opponents where I must expect the fight to last a long time, because in the long run, all fights become willpower fights. And if you are good defensively, you can almost always turn fights into long fights, so the person with the better willpower management (or the class better at draining/conserving willpower) wins.

Eld

Iocun said:

Also consider that if you say "avoidance serpents", you must mean "avoidance serpents with weaving up", because that's the one thing that would boost a serpent's avoidance. Weaving drains willpower. Blademasters are good at draining willpower. So use that to your advantage.

Personally, I do not use weaving against opponents where I must expect the fight to last a long time, because in the long run, all fights become willpower fights. And if you are good defensively, you can almost always turn fights into long fights, so the person with the better willpower management (or the class better at draining/conserving willpower) wins gets to cry when the other guy runs back to the gatehouse/barracks/battlements/wherever to meditate.

Iocun

A win is a win! I don't really care if they die or run in abject terror!

Borran

Iocun said:

Also consider that if you say "avoidance serpents", you must mean "avoidance serpents with weaving up", because that's the one thing that would boost a serpent's avoidance. Weaving drains willpower. Blademasters are good at draining willpower. So use that to your advantage.

Personally, I do not use weaving against opponents where I must expect the fight to last a long time, because in the long run, all fights become willpower fights. And if you are good defensively, you can almost always turn fights into long fights, so the person with the better willpower management (or the class better at draining/conserving willpower) wins.

personally I think that endurance/willpower drain should not be a legit kill strategy. Mana drain, sure. Achaea is moving towards more offensive combat. Slow and steady guaranteed wins like this causes players to flee or turtle to try to regen resources.

And for raid defense, it forces the person into a 'stand by and watch or die and come back' situation. Even if they are conservative.

Strata

Borran said:

Also consider that if you say "avoidance serpents", you must mean "avoidance serpents with weaving up", because that's the one thing that would boost a serpent's avoidance. Weaving drains willpower. Blademasters are good at draining willpower. So use that to your advantage.

Personally, I do not use weaving against opponents where I must expect the fight to last a long time, because in the long run, all fights become willpower fights. And if you are good defensively, you can almost always turn fights into long fights, so the person with the better willpower management (or the class better at draining/conserving willpower) wins.

personally I think that endurance/willpower drain should not be a legit kill strategy. Mana drain, sure. Achaea is moving towards more offensive combat. Slow and steady guaranteed wins like this causes players to flee or turtle to try to regen resources. And for raid defense, it forces the person into a 'stand by and watch or die and come back' situation. Even if they are conservative.

re: endurance/willpower drain not being a legit kill strategy:

Iocun said:

A win is a win! I don't really care if they die or run in abject terror!

re: for raid defense, it forces the person to 'stand by and watch or die and come back' situation. Even if they are conservative.

People don't tend to run out of willpower in a raid defense party (unless maybe they are of a class that uses a lot of it for offense)

Raids rarely last long enough for it to matter - or you get killed before you run out. 

Antonius

@Borran: Raid defense isn't really a concern. Most people (i.e. non-Marks) can die in city at zero cost, and either be resurrected or simply embrace death. Raid defense also doesn't generally last so long that running out of endurance or willpower is an issue (except for a few specific classes which need to have willpower costs addressed).

For single combat I think there needs to be something that imposes a limit on the duration of any particular fight, since right now it's relatively easy for two people to push a fight to an hour or more. At that point resource management should be a concern, and there should be an advantage for the fighter who is better at conserving their own or forcing their opponent to use theirs.

And, depending on the classes involved, fighting with very low willpower isn't immediately a loss. It's not possible against a Blademaster, as a Priest or Occultist (and likely several other classes), but there are still some class combinations where the fight can continue after one or both of them runs out of willpower.

Hasar

Or just go magi and there are only a few possibilities that rapidly develop, in far under an hour.

1.) They die in retardation.

2.) You die in retardation.

3.) You both die.

4.) And on occasion; You play RPS. (in retardation).

Fitz

Hasar said:

Or just go magi and there are only a few possibilities that rapidly develop, in far under an hour.

1.) They die in retardation.

2.) You die in retardation.

3.) You both die.

4.) And on occasion; You play RPS. (in retardation).

You're leaving out something:

5.) Your allies you didn't ask to help you come and help you.

6.) Hasar gets mad an calls you a coward.

7.) You yell at your allies and they don't get why your mad, cause it's not like you were sparring or anything.

Iocun

Borran said:

Also consider that if you say "avoidance serpents", you must mean "avoidance serpents with weaving up", because that's the one thing that would boost a serpent's avoidance. Weaving drains willpower. Blademasters are good at draining willpower. So use that to your advantage.

Personally, I do not use weaving against opponents where I must expect the fight to last a long time, because in the long run, all fights become willpower fights. And if you are good defensively, you can almost always turn fights into long fights, so the person with the better willpower management (or the class better at draining/conserving willpower) wins.

personally I think that endurance/willpower drain should not be a legit kill strategy. Mana drain, sure. Achaea is moving towards more offensive combat. Slow and steady guaranteed wins like this causes players to flee or turtle to try to regen resources. And for raid defense, it forces the person into a 'stand by and watch or die and come back' situation. Even if they are conservative.

I don't think anybody enjoys using willpower drain as a kill strategy. It's pretty much always a somewhat frustrating situation for both parties. Yet, sometimes, it's just the only strategy that can lead to success. Achaea may be moving towards more offensive and momentum-based combat, but it still has a long way to go. As it stands, turtling is still very well possible and very much done.

So no matter how much I may dislike willpower-based strategies, in the end I'm often still forced to decide between simply giving up and allowing myself to be killed, or using a willpower advantage to get a kill myself. I like winning, so I tend to choose the latter. I do consider this "legit", and it will continue being a part of my repertoire until all classes are sufficiently changed to make them vulnerable enough defensively that I do not require such tactics.

Hasar said:

Or just go magi and there are only a few possibilities that rapidly develop, in far under an hour.

1.) They die in retardation.

2.) You die in retardation.

3.) You both die.

4.) And on occasion; You play RPS. (in retardation).

This is precisely why magi is one of my favourite classes to fight against. Although... even against some magi, fights can last for a long time. Most notably when they don't prep you for their retardation at all, yet also leave you no time to prep them.

Achilles

Antonius said:

@Borran: Raid defense isn't really a concern. Most people (i.e. non-Marks) can die in city at zero cost, and either be resurrected or simply embrace death. Raid defense also doesn't generally last so long that running out of endurance or willpower is an issue (except for a few specific classes which need to have willpower costs addressed).

That's not always true.  Willpower is used for world burn (to displace entrenched raid groups) and to keep totem defs on.  

Iocun

Yeah, but then you run out of willpower because of that, and not because somebody decided to drain your willpower. I doubt willpower drain is a very viable strategy in any sort of large group fights.

Worldburn is also not inherently a raid defence. Some theocratic cities can use it as such, but to most, it's simply not an available option.

Achilles

Ask Ruth about world burn and willpower draining.

Arditi

Achilles said:

Ask Xadzia about world burn and willpower draining.

Fixed.

Mishgul

never had a problem with willpower and spamming worldburn, you guys are all newbs at worldburning.

Hasar

..@Carmain.

We set up to fight w/e City was raiding.

OKAY I'LL GO IN AND FOCUS YOU BURN AT THE SAME TIME.

Ready..

go!

*focus in

*death

Carmain: Oh, sorry. Was on 49% WP.

I WILL NEVER FORGET YOU BASTARD.

Mishgul

i wasn't really I just wanted you to die

Trayu

Kyrra said:

Blademaster and Shaman need That Time Of The Month: increases bleeding and reduces clotting.

Oh god I can't function now. Too good. Too good