Monthly Promotions

Eld

Tarkanian said:

heck, i'm fine with just bringing back 1cr/comment in ironrealms.com.

Please no. Page upon page of "Yes.", "I agree", "+1", "Credit please" adds nothing to anything.

Sarapis

Jarrod said:

While I also relish the idea of IRE tying a team of coders down to crack out multiple events each month, I don't think it's happening.

Yeah, that's right, cool though the suggestion was!

Sarapis

Sylvance said:

I personally think that it comes down to what the 'point' is in promotions, from IRE's POV. There are some promotions that will increase artefact sales (such as the current, or any other which is about getting people to try out artefacts). There are some promotions that will increase interest and buy-in to Achaea's mythos/lore/RP (such as the Stian one). There are some that will increase credit sales (such as discounts and freebies).

I don't have a problem with any of these per se. My favourite are probably the 'daily log-in' promotions, but that's from an entirely selfish point of view. As has been said, those who want to buy credits should buy credits. Those who don't shouldn't. Everyone should remember that this is a game and a business.

Well, the promotions are intended to stimulate purchases ultimately, but things like daily log-in bonuses and the like are perhaps a separate type of 'event' that we should be running on top of those sometimes. Will give it some thought!

Jovolo

Eld said:

Tarkanian said:

heck, i'm fine with just bringing back 1cr/comment in ironrealms.com.

Please no. Page upon page of "Yes.", "I agree", "+1", "Credit please" adds nothing to anything.

It adds lessons to my character >(

Sarapis

(Oh, and we are in no way considering actually selling level 2 veils. The reason the promotional items last such a short time is largely to ensure that they can only be used at key times for that player, or they'll quickly be gone.)

Eld

Sarapis said:

(Oh, and we are in no way considering actually selling level 2 wings. The reason the promotional items last such a short time is largely to ensure that they can only be used at key times for that player, or they'll quickly be gone.)

I assume this is meant to say level 2 veils, as level 2 wings are available?

Sarapis

@Eld Correct. Fixed!

Sarapis

Eld said:

Tarkanian said:

heck, i'm fine with just bringing back 1cr/comment in ironrealms.com.

Please no. Page upon page of "Yes.", "I agree", "+1", "Credit please" adds nothing to anything.

No chance of it coming back. We did it for a specific purpose (SEO), and it was ineffective, so we stopped.

Jarrod

I think we just need to embrace veil stacking for the month of June. Forget 'the temporary veil will increase you veil level if you already own one.' Instead, let's go with 'each temporary veil will increase your veil level by 1, indefinitely.' I want to see a veil level contest.

Imagine the rage when Ashtan raids Targossas with an army of level 9 veiled raiders?

Imagine the grief of exterminating with a level 20 veil wherever you want?

In addition, trying to sense someone who has a veil more than 3 levels higher than yours will strip mindseye, apply blindness, and you can neither cure blindness or touch mindseye until the targets veil wears off, or you apply a veil to bring you within 3 levels of theirs.

Don't tone it back, ramp it up!

Sasiya

I have some questions for @Sarapis as long as we're discussing the promotions anyway:

Will the alter ego promotion ever come back? It was great for just making a new character.

Also, there are some pretty huge differences as far as how generous some promotions are between the IRE games (giftbags, the shifting globes, and the wheel to mention a few). I don't think they should necessarily be identical, but there's somewhat of an issue when you compare the games: in Achaea, I got perhaps 230-240 giftbags in total and earned a few hundred credits in total, whereas in Aetolia I got 600 giftbags and they contained somewhere along the lines of 10,000-12,000 credits after all artifacts had been traded in. The extra benefit is immense to the point where I can't justify spending money on Achaea during those months (same with the shifting globes, really).

Tarkanian

Sarapis said:

Eld said:

Tarkanian said:

heck, i'm fine with just bringing back 1cr/comment in ironrealms.com.

Please no. Page upon page of "Yes.", "I agree", "+1", "Credit please" adds nothing to anything.

No chance of it coming back. We did it for a specific purpose (SEO), and it was ineffective, so we stopped.

ok then. hoping for the other things i mentioned instead.

Sarapis

Sasiya said:

I have some questions for @Sarapis as long as we're discussing the promotions anyway:

Will the alter ego promotion ever come back? It was great for just making a new character.

Also, there are some pretty huge differences as far as how generous some promotions are between the IRE games (giftbags, the shifting globes, and the wheel to mention a few). I don't think they should necessarily be identical, but there's somewhat of an issue when you compare the games: in Achaea, I got perhaps 230-240 giftbags in total and earned a few hundred credits in total, whereas in Aetolia I got 600 giftbags and they contained somewhere along the lines of 10,000-12,000 credits after all artifacts had been traded in. The extra benefit is immense to the point where I can't justify spending money on Achaea during those months (same with the shifting globes, really).

----------------------------------------------------------

Um. If you really spent around 2400 credits and somehow got between 10 and 12k credits equivalent value on Aetolia you either got extremely lucky (certainly possibly), there's a bug, or I need to have a talk with Razmael.

Hataru

@Sarapis I got similar luck. Not that extreme but the payout from my end was about 3 times greater on Aetolia than on Achaea. Its been discussed plenty of times on various clans of mine that most people notice it as well - that the payout from things like the Wheel on the other games are intensely better than on Achaea.

Jarrod

One thing to note on the wheel in particular.

Other games had negative effects you could roll as well, ranging from instant-death to long-lasting negative effects. On average, all the wheels were probably similar.

Hataru

@Jarrod yeah I mean overall I prefer our wheel (I'd much rather get less pay out then possibly lose skills or levels, which I've had happen on Aetolia) but I was merely pointing out that the payout is consistently better in my experience, not just a one person getting lucky thing.

Sasiya

Sarapis said:

Um. If you really spent around 2400 credits and somehow got between 10 and 12k credits equivalent value on Aetolia you either got extremely lucky (certainly possibly), there's a bug, or I need to have a talk with Razmael.

If you look at my post, you'll notice that the 2400 credits were for Achaea and earned artifacts that traded in for a few hundred credits. In Aetolia, I got 600 giftbags (6,000 credits) and pretty much got 200% additional credits as tradeins.

Someone said:

53 secure brass keyrings, 50 tokens of discount, 56 silver chalices, 48 beating phoenix hearts, 53 red bull's eyes, 48 heavily-etched silver tokens, 52 grimstim pills, 17 mint chocolates, 5 tourmaline vials, 10 ruby vials, 11 jade vials, 8 elegant diamond vials, 11 crystal divining skulls, 14 goggles of whitesight of whitesight, a Banner of Dominance, 2 sulfurous amulets, 11 caramel chocolates, 15 bejeweled signet rings, 15 Lleisian crystals necklace of rebirth, 15 hazelnut chocolates, 6 peridot vials, 2 emerald vials, 5 moonstone vials, 6 garnet vials, 8 strawberry chocolates, 2 wands of portals, 3 sapphire crystal vials, an Ocular of the Havens, a wooden ring of vigour, 2 pairs of boots of the spider, 2 bracers of devastation, a girdle of fortitude, 2 pairs of wings of the eagle, and 3644304 gold sovereigns.

53 keyrings á 32 credits = 1696 bound credits
50 tokens of discount (33% reduced artifact prices) = zero tradein value but still quite profitable
56 silver chalices (double experience for 24 hours) = zero tradein value but still quite useful (alternatively sell them to other players)
48 heavily-etched silver tokens á 12 iron coins = 576 bound iron coins (iron coins trade for one credit per coin)
56 artifact vials á 26 credits = 1456 bound credits
11 divining skulls á 40 iron coins = 440 bound iron coins
14 goggles of whitesight á 100 credits = 1400 bound credits
1 banner of dominance = 133 bound credits
2 sulfurous amulets á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
15 bejeweled signet rings á 12 iron coins = 300 bound iron coins
15 Lleisan crystal necklaces of rebirth á 67 credits = 1005 bound credits
2 wands of portals á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
1 ocular of the havens = 133 bound credits
1 wooden ring of vigour = 332 bound credits
2 boots of the spiders á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
2 bracers of devastation á 200 credits = 400 bound credits
1 girdle of fortitude = 332 bound credits
2 wings of the eagle á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits

3,644,303 gold sovereigns (at current average sale price) = 1077 unbound credits

I also didn't include the mass of customisation certificates I received because I made that post before I realized those could be traded in for 6 iron coins each. There were also normal iron coins in the bags (unbound) but they didn't show up in inventory so they weren't included either. I think I got about 300-400 or so and they're worth one credit each.

So in total:
1077 credits from gold (although I actually bought some of mine higher)
9346 bound credits from artifact tradeins
1316 bound iron coins

+ more iron coins for customisation certificates and receiving unbound coins in the giftbags (I had enough to buy the 2,000 iron coin transportation tokens and give away/sell some all the extra ones)

I won't include the extra iron coins because I don't actually have them listed.

Looking at only these items (so not including all the iron coins, the chalices, the discount tokens, the chocolates, or the other consumables), I got 11,739 extra credits, or a bit less considering the credit market were higher when I spent the gold. A rough assumption would put the total worth much closer to 13,000 to 13,500, and much higher if you include the 33% discount from the artifact tokens. Although I purchased a large amount of giftbags, the overall payout was something like 200% in addition to my base purchase. In Achaea, my 2300 credits netted me maybe 20-30% (and this is most likely a wild exaggeration). There is a -huge- difference between the IRE games. People from Lusternia seem to have it pretty decently set up as well (particularly with the Wheel, from what I hear). The overall consensus when talking to fellow players amongst the IRE games is that Achaea's promotions give far, far less value for the money, which I sort of don't like.

Again, I don't expect promotions to offer identical rewards, but it would be nice if a giftbag promotion came around and I could feel that I wouldn't be wasting my money by getting credits in Achaea. Because it honestly felt like that after I realized how much better the other games' promotion were during the giftbag month. Obviously, free stuff is nice even in Achaea, but it does make me feel a bit bitter that I spent ~600$ in Achaea when I could have spent them in Aetolia and gotten so much more, and I really don't think that this distinction should exist within the IRE enterprises. Same goes for Wheel and shifting globes and Ironbeard and pretty much everything else.

This is by no means a serious complaint (I won't write you an angry email about it, Tecton)! Giftbags are way awesome so don't take this like whining or anything like that. I'm just trying to argue that Achaea could be on the same generosity level as the other games because that would be awesome.

^_^

Kresslack

The log-in per day(usually was 21 days of the month I think) were my favourite ones, as well as the globes. Starting out the globes had some pretty trash potentials, but you guys quickly adjusted that based on feedback which is awesome. If I'm going to buy credits, I'm going to buy them regardless of whether or not their's a promotion, but with the recent incentives, I'm more likely to just hang on to the temporary effect items and sell them at an extortionary rate later down the road if anything. 

Sarapis

Sasiya said:

Sarapis said:

Um. If you really spent around 2400 credits and somehow got between 10 and 12k credits equivalent value on Aetolia you either got extremely lucky (certainly possibly), there's a bug, or I need to have a talk with Razmael.

If you look at my post, you'll notice that the 2400 credits were for Achaea and earned artifacts that traded in for a few hundred credits. In Aetolia, I got 600 giftbags (6,000 credits) and pretty much got 200% additional credits as tradeins.

Someone said:

53 secure brass keyrings, 50 tokens of discount, 56 silver chalices, 48 beating phoenix hearts, 53 red bull's eyes, 48 heavily-etched silver tokens, 52 grimstim pills, 17 mint chocolates, 5 tourmaline vials, 10 ruby vials, 11 jade vials, 8 elegant diamond vials, 11 crystal divining skulls, 14 goggles of whitesight of whitesight, a Banner of Dominance, 2 sulfurous amulets, 11 caramel chocolates, 15 bejeweled signet rings, 15 Lleisian crystals necklace of rebirth, 15 hazelnut chocolates, 6 peridot vials, 2 emerald vials, 5 moonstone vials, 6 garnet vials, 8 strawberry chocolates, 2 wands of portals, 3 sapphire crystal vials, an Ocular of the Havens, a wooden ring of vigour, 2 pairs of boots of the spider, 2 bracers of devastation, a girdle of fortitude, 2 pairs of wings of the eagle, and 3644304 gold sovereigns.

53 keyrings á 32 credits = 1696 bound credits
50 tokens of discount (33% reduced artifact prices) = zero tradein value but still quite profitable
56 silver chalices (double experience for 24 hours) = zero tradein value but still quite useful (alternatively sell them to other players)
48 heavily-etched silver tokens á 12 iron coins = 576 bound iron coins (iron coins trade for one credit per coin)
56 artifact vials á 26 credits = 1456 bound credits
11 divining skulls á 40 iron coins = 440 bound iron coins
14 goggles of whitesight á 100 credits = 1400 bound credits
1 banner of dominance = 133 bound credits
2 sulfurous amulets á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
15 bejeweled signet rings á 12 iron coins = 300 bound iron coins
15 Lleisan crystal necklaces of rebirth á 67 credits = 1005 bound credits
2 wands of portals á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
1 ocular of the havens = 133 bound credits
1 wooden ring of vigour = 332 bound credits
2 boots of the spiders á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits
2 bracers of devastation á 200 credits = 400 bound credits
1 girdle of fortitude = 332 bound credits
2 wings of the eagle á 532 credits = 1064 bound credits

3,644,303 gold sovereigns (at current average sale price) = 1077 unbound credits

I also didn't include the mass of customisation certificates I received because I made that post before I realized those could be traded in for 6 iron coins each. There were also normal iron coins in the bags (unbound) but they didn't show up in inventory so they weren't included either. I think I got about 300-400 or so and they're worth one credit each.

So in total:
1077 credits from gold (although I actually bought some of mine higher)
9346 bound credits from artifact tradeins
1316 bound iron coins

+ more iron coins for customisation certificates and receiving unbound coins in the giftbags (I had enough to buy the 2,000 iron coin transportation tokens and give away/sell some all the extra ones)

I won't include the extra iron coins because I don't actually have them listed.

Looking at only these items (so not including all the iron coins, the chalices, the discount tokens, the chocolates, or the other consumables), I got 11,739 extra credits, or a bit less considering the credit market were higher when I spent the gold. A rough assumption would put the total worth much closer to 13,000 to 13,500, and much higher if you include the 33% discount from the artifact tokens. Although I purchased a large amount of giftbags, the overall payout was something like 200% in addition to my base purchase. In Achaea, my 2300 credits netted me maybe 20-30% (and this is most likely a wild exaggeration). There is a -huge- difference between the IRE games. People from Lusternia seem to have it pretty decently set up as well (particularly with the Wheel, from what I hear). The overall consensus when talking to fellow players amongst the IRE games is that Achaea's promotions give far, far less value for the money, which I sort of don't like.

Again, I don't expect promotions to offer identical rewards, but it would be nice if a giftbag promotion came around and I could feel that I wouldn't be wasting my money by getting credits in Achaea. Because it honestly felt like that after I realized how much better the other games' promotion were during the giftbag month. Obviously, free stuff is nice even in Achaea, but it does make me feel a bit bitter that I spent ~600$ in Achaea when I could have spent them in Aetolia and gotten so much more, and I really don't think that this distinction should exist within the IRE enterprises. Same goes for Wheel and shifting globes and Ironbeard and pretty much everything else.

 Giftbags are way awesome so don't take this like whining or anything like that. I'm just trying to argue that Achaea could be on the same generosity level as the other games because that would be awesome.

^_^

Well, the problem you describe is one of the other games giving out far too much, unless you got lucky, though given that your winnings didn't come in one bunch, it's statistically unlikely that you're an outlier. 

Sarapis

Kresslack said:

 I'm more likely to just hang on to the temporary effect items and sell them at an extortionary rate later down the road if anything. 

Yep, that's what I'd do with them. Hold onto them until they're quite rare, and then sell.

Mizik

Lesson sales for class change addicts. ^___________________^

Sarapis

Lesson sales do really poorly actually.

Jovolo

I really liked the customisable artefact group sales. I don't know the official name of them, but there was a thread where you could suggest a combination of artefacts labeled beneath a title like 'Amateur Duelist' or whatever, for a decent discount as opposed to what it would cost to buy them all individually.

I didn't buy anything, but I totally would have spent a crazy amount of money had I been able to

Eld

Jovolo said:

I really liked the customisable artefact group sales. I don't know the official name of them, but there was a thread where you could suggest a combination of artefacts labeled beneath a title like 'Amateur Duelist' or whatever, for a decent discount as opposed to what it would cost to buy them all individually.

I didn't buy anything, but I totally would have spent a crazy amount of money had I been able to

The artefact packages for those sales aren't really customisable, though, except insofar as the admin were cool about listening to forum suggestions for new ones.

Sasiya

I still really liked the Alter Ego promotion. Just hoping there'll be another sometime.

Kyrra

Yes to artifact package sales. >.>

Antonius

I'd prefer to just have another discount on artefact purchases, to be honest. The packages aren't great if you already own a large selection of artefacts.

Anaidiana

I'm with @antonius on this one. Or, run them back to back but TELL US so we can buy wisely. 

Hataru

I'm with @Anaidiana here on knowing beforehand. 

I know if I had say 400cr and without a sale I needed 750cr to buy something I'd probably just let my Elite keep ticking over til I got it, say with a sale I needed 600cr and I got my 100cr from elite (going with lowest number here possible for simplicity) meaning I only needed another 100cr to buy it I'd be way way more likely to try and come up with that cash to buy those extra 100cr that PREVIOUS month there was a credit sale to prepare for it, but I'd be much less inclined without the sale since I'd wager I'd get it eventually anyway with elite and I'd feel a bit cheated missing out on that 35% buying them right after the other sale ended. (This actually happened the summer I bought wings and I ended up -not- buying credits because of it and waiting the extra months for elite + IC credit gain.)

Summary: Knowing that we'd have an artie sale the month after a credit sale would increase my probability of buying credits, even if it didn't fit into the above example scenario.

But this may just be the wonky workings of an increasingly poor just-graduated-undergrad-starting-grad-school mind.

Antonius

Sarapis said:

Lesson sales do really poorly actually.

Perhaps consider, in addition to some other promotion, increasing the amount gained when converting credits to lessons as part of one of the monthly promotions instead of doing a lesson sale. Those who don't need/want lessons can still buy credits (and get something extra), while those who need lessons may be encouraged to buy credits they wouldn't have otherwise to convert. Also has the added bonus of being a nice additional thing even for those who can't/don't buy credits, which would no doubt be appreciated.

@Hataru: Knowing what the sales are in advance would be fantastic, but also likely reduce the overall number of credit sales. Your example is that if you know you'd only need 100 credits, then you'd buy them now rather than waiting a bit longer and buying none. On the other hand, I want to buy four arbitrary (but let's assume quite expensive) artefacts. I'll buy the credits for three of them and buy them then. The next month there's an artefact discount, so I'll buy more credits to pick up the last one. If I'd known there was a discount sale coming up, however, I would have saved the credits and simply bought all four at reduced rates.

Hataru

@Antonius If we're talking about arbitrary artefacts we're still talking mostly about the group who can afford them anyway, which isn't the group who would benefit from knowing. The biggest complaint about this month that I've seen/talked with people about (beside that its veils) is that a promo like this benefits only that class of people, my argument is for helping the other people who may want to but can't see the benefit beside just getting elite.

And my situation where I did actually buy credits (to get 3 items) during a sale I still only bought 200cr and got three very useful artefacts instead of only the one (which I put off getting since 3 > 1) I was waiting to get at once. I actually wanted to get a fourth and would have purchased more credits to get even closer to it instead of just relying on Elite, had there been a corresponding sale.

Sales benefit mostly the people who can't just shovel out the money anyway - there will ALWAYS be loss during a discount because the people who are going to buy in the way you're talking about, are still going to take advantage of the savings. However during a sale the people who don't normally spend outside of Elite are going to purchase/buy/whatever more.

Also my numbers are small because that's all I can personally afford so I won't speak for people who can shovel out the $ for 1k+ credits at once because I'm no where near that bracket of expendable income so I just don't have the mindset of that type of spending beyond that most people I know who buy OOC credits to pay for artefacts that expensive would do it regardless of a sale, they just love the sales since saving money still bitchin'.

TL;DR You're still talking about the group who can afford big purchases anyway who don't need the sales but take advantage of them anyway because who DOESN'T like to save money. The point many are making is that we want sales or promos that help everyone not just certain niches of the game and that can be beneficial both ICly and OOCly and with newbies and all tax brackets.