Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

Being a raid (defense/offense) leader.

DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited May 2013 in The Matsuhama Arena
With the war ongoing between multiple cities, people posting about leading raids, and Dunn/Sabiru posts in another thread, I figured that I'd post this for discussion and make things interesting for everyone and not continue in the wrong thread.  Just a few things from a raid leader:
A: it gets boring being one of a small collective of people that lead raids.  I like to participate in raids when I'm not the leader too and I usually have way more fun this way.
B: even though I put off in-game that I don't care about killing people, especially Mhaldorians, I still hate it when people follow me when I'm doing stupid shit and die as a result.  When I say don't follow me you should really listen.
C: Again, quit following me unless I tell you to
D: BLOCK AND UNBLOCK.  GOOD LORD
E: CALL YOUR DAMN SHOTS

I think that list could go on but you can see the anger is pointed in the general direction of the Naga, failures of Mhaldor.  I hope we ban them soon or atleast give them to Targossas. We'd win constantly after they keep flubbing up Targossas' operations.

Mhaldorians and non-Mhaldorians alike constantly quake at the thought of leading any kind of raid party, which I never understood. They may not literally quake in their boots but no one will ever step up fast in order to take the reigns.  This isn't just a Mhaldor-centric issue either as I have seen it other places and see it daily when the same people lead over and over again.

I think I will start by telling you I am not a top tier fighter.  I would say I'm top of the non-top tiers and when I'm lucky the low end on top tier, but if I have to tell you this then I'm not top tier.  I panic all the time and I have great ganksense (it tingles when Targ gets near) but my Miziksense (this is a real term) needs work.  I happen to understand the subtleties of Apostate well enough and Dragon is supremely easy-mode that I do well.  In teams Apostate is ridiculously deadly, but not in the general kill-em-with-damage sense.

I said that to say this: leading a raiding party whether offense or defense has little to do with how good you are as a fighter, given they do go hand in hand a bit in terms of knowledge about the classes but that's it. Some people just execute well in 1v1 situations.  Being a good raid leader has more to do with how well you know your enemies, their abilities, what they can and can't do, and your own partners likewise.  This doesn't just mean you know that priests can do this so you'll be good.  No, it means in a combat situation you know how a priest can act given any set of circumstances and how you will respond.  This actually blurs more when you get larger and larger parties as efforts turn from how to be creative to how to destroy them faster and faster because they're going to do it to us.  You've seen massive choke-squads, massive bite-squads, etc.  These are all setups to eliminate people immediately.  You have to think about how each class meshes with your group and against your group in the raid setting to move forward, which is what will make you shine as a raid leader.  Also, don't forget if you're defending a city all the nifty little tools you have at your disposal courtesy of city funds.  This alone has helped me shut down raids numerous times as I'm sure others will attest to if anyone even posts here.

You can lead your raid party from afar, as a pansy, and you can do so after you died if you don't care about textperience, which you shouldn't if you really think you can lead.  If you care about your textperience then raiding or combat really isn't for you.  Seriously, just jump in leading a raid and if you die you can deal with the two consequences of it after you're done.  I will give anyone a shot that wants to lead raids as long as they're willing and I will silence douchebags that talk shit afterwards (usually because they're not willing to step up and or suck).  See the next paragraph about this point.

There are two issues after the actual raiding situation you will have to deal with: yourself and naysayers, especially when you first start.  You can deal with yourself by learning and talking to other people but it's the idiots that either talk behind your back or outright belittle your attempt at raid defense/offense often times on PT.  When I started, and even still, people get mad when they die and or you fail horribly.  I laugh when I fail and or beat myself up for forgetting something small that gets 30 people killed, which makes me in turn laugh.  The funnest times are the horrendously epic fails and they make great logfiles to keep separately and read later.  The ultimate example has been me walking a huge legion of Mhaldorians into guards.  Yes, hilarity ensued and god people were pissed and no, we weren't trying to kill guards and got demolished.  Anyone truly trying to learn how to lead raiding parties or defenses should have people teaching them that will show them what to do as well as handle the aftermath.  My common response to naysayers is to hand them the reigns.  I've done this a few times and they will usually backpedal immediately or after they realize they didn't want to do it.

It really isn't much harder then this and I honestly believe 1v1 is harder then raiding.  FYI: I die all the time, probably more then anyone except Carmain, and yet I'm one of the handful of people that leads the raids and defenses outside the australian/oceanic night time crews.

There is one thing that I didn't include that I should have: having competent people to do their jobs assigned will mean the world.  Very small groups of raiders can destroy huge defender groups, or vice versa, because of how well your group operates and the more time you spend together the better things will go, especially at anticipating each others moves.

One quick note: if a raid leader says we got this you've a 90% chance of death.  This is all.
-----------------------------
@DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


JacenHawekSilasMishgulVadimusesCesarinaAlcinaeWysteriaSherazadSaibelAntidasAradorMediHalosHhaosFrizticDarrothJesparHasarIsaiah
«1345

Comments

  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    The fact that you forgot that was Tanris way of telling us we're going to die means he's been gone too long.
    Dunn said:
    Don't be afraid to die at all. Being leader means you're likely to be focused and blown the f- up.

    Thick skin. People will shit on you for what they feel are poor decisions. Tough shit, you're the leader.

    Of course, smaller groups are easier to manage. I know from experience that a small group of well-organized individuals can, as Dontarion mentioned, absolutely obliterate any sized opposing force with quality leadership.

    Never say never. Say "We got that."
    The fact that you forgot that was Tanris way of telling us we're going to die means he's been gone too long.
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


    Jespar
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,198 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Statistically speaking, that phrase lead to more successes than failures. We just liked to poke fun at him for it. It's more an expression of confidence in your group than a true strategic assessment of the situation at hand.


  • SothantosSothantos Member Posts: 459 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Wtf is Miziksense.

    Edit: Oh, fighting-fu. I missed that one like an idiot.
    Militis
  • TaggTagg Member Posts: 387 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    No, that was Tanris' way of telling us shit was about to get fun.
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,198 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    "Okay, guys, we have to dive that group of 43 Shallamese and Cyrenians and Eleusians on a totem in Shallam with a guard stack. No, Dunn, they're the big guards. We have to get Cooper out of that group and steal the sword. No, Sohl, Babel said to. We got that, guys."



    I still have the log.


    CooperHawekHalosIsaiah
  • LiancaLianca Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 428
    That was an epic day.

    And the clocktower destruction.
    The sweltering heat of the forge spills out across the land as the rumbling voice of Phaestus booms, "I want you to know, the Garden reaction to that one is: What?"
    The voice of Melantha, Goddess of the Seasons, echoes amid the rustle of leaves, "That's the censored version."
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,198 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Never say never. Say "we got that."

    ^tattoo that shit on your inner thigh.


    SilasHawekMizik
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,544 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    D cracked me up so bad.

  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I remember that sword business, I think.  Didn't I try to hypno-steal it from him?
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,198 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It was way after Mhaldor-Ashtan split.


  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hrm.  I may have still tried to hypno-steal it.  haha.
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


    Antidas
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,061 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Even I admitted that was the most beautiful piece of coordination ever.

  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I forgot to mention: there are probably few feelings that come from this game better then when some really weird setup involving a few people goes perfect and lets you destroy a huge group at 5:1 or worse odds.  I may see if I can't find a log of the time Mizik was sentinel and I was magi inside Eleusis.  That feeling of just utter "it worked" is really awesome.
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


    Mizik
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,096 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Retardation Voyria Darts + Reflexes Concussion BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMB
    image
    SimolnCahin
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2013
    On the other side, demolishing groups of people who don't know what they're doing and are dragged into conflict by necessity over and over, and then boasting about it isn't so great. This side of things many people don't speak up about so I thought I'd throw it out there.

    Also, raid participant: please pay attention. If you feel like you need to take a break, wiggle out. Attentionless (this means not just afk but browsing youtube or watching your tv, fyi) people are always a major PITA to raid leaders - you either lose them and they die, they block and don't unblock, or don't block to begin with...
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,198 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or they use SVO autoblock and piss me off just as much.

    :)


  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    ... or you get alertness-beckoned by lame-o's who trigger that!

    (fyi, you can stop autoblock with vignore block. Or just learn to type ub to stop blocking. Or know how to use your own system).
    MilitisIsaiah
  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'm pretty sure I've been getting alertness beckoned lately with the sub-1s beckons.  I can't tell if someone is just that fast or not, but I doubt it.
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    would totally make a toggleable auto-beckon if i had it, no shame in that
    image
    ZeonRangorIsaiah
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,096 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vadimuses said:
    ... or you get alertness-beckoned by lame-o's who trigger that!

    If you're gonna name and shame Niks while he's not here to defend himself, be a man about it and call it out.


    I got your back, @Niks.
    image
    SherazadKatzchenHalos
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2013
    No, it was made during Qashar and Ovid times.

    I like and agree with automated offensives being looked down upon and shamed. That just becomes a case of a ping war and cheap tricks.
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Seemed a bit obvious before the edit, did it?
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    Sherazad
  • XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
    edited May 2013
    Cahin's ping and tramplesect. I miss it now D:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jarrod said:
    Seemed a bit obvious before the edit, did it?
    I'm not sure, but I think you should respect the games rules and concepts. That's all I'll say!
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,919 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Niks does not autobeckon, you leave my favorite priest alone. He just has a trigger to beckon and I send him a tell to beckon on alertness.

    no i am not serious (but he really does not autobeckon, or we would get way more kills!)

    Thank you for posting this Dontarion. :) 

     i'm a rebel

  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Lol I failed p. bad twice now.  Fun times.  I hate raiding new cities that I'm not familiar with the guards.
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


  • DontarionDontarion Member Posts: 154 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited May 2013
    Make that thrice.

    Killed enough Mhaldorians tonight so I can sleep like a baby.
    Post edited by Dontarion on
    -----------------------------
    @DontarionDrakor for twitter boredom.


    GoggoSimoln
  • HhaosHhaos Cortland, OhioMember Posts: 301 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Take nothing personally. If You're the best known combatant in your group you are going to get hit so hard and fast your head will spin. Take a few deep breaths and smoke, it will be okay. Just whatever you do, remember it is a game. If it gets too much to handle make sure you have people you can trust to lead the group, if not then well, makes for good times later laughing it over on OOC clans.
    Arador
Sign In to Comment.