Classlead Questions

Xith

Didn't see a topic anywhere obvious. Maybe previous classes didn't run into snags like this but here's question #1. Feel free to add on as subsequent classes get their changes.

Suicidemice.

Super excited that they're finally available. We've only had our trans pranks skill on the list for like four classlead rounds.

Here's my snag though. Xith is Ashtani. There are no houses in Ashtan that accept jesters anymore. Warlocks made it clear that we're not elemental enough (despite alchemists getting in), the Ashura is very obviously not suited, and I think the Occultist house is scheduled to start accepting jesters right after Babel and Pandora's wedding.

So being that I don't want to join the CIJ still, and my current house has no reason to buy a mouse thing for a class it won't have, here are the questions:

1) Why only 2 mice at a time?

2) How many can a reeducation center allow?

3) Why does such a roguish class need to rely on House membership to take full advantage of their trans skill? I'd hoped the long-awaited skill would be doing away with restriction.

So Option B, could we just get a public mouse center with some sort of cost to use it? (cause jesters aren't expensive enough yet)

Nemutaur

Xith said:

There are no houses in Ashtan that accept jesters anymore. Warlocks made it clear that we're not elemental enough (despite alchemists getting in),

Got to convince them that they are man, runes are earth elemental! So lets check it ummm, Tarot seems elemental. There's this Sun (fire), Hermit (probably earth), Tower (earth), Star (firey), Universe (geography = earth), Death (graves are in the earth!)... write a thesis on it, they'll love it.

Xith

I just loved the response that Alchemists' powers came from channeling the elements, when not one alchemist ability has anything to do with fire, water, air, or earth. It's ether and symbology and physiological humours. It's not even a stretch. There's just no connection.

But off-topic. No derails.

Rispok

Xith said:

stuff

So being that I don't want to join the CIJ still, and my current house has no reason to buy a mouse thing for a class it won't have, here are the questions:

1) Why only 2 mice at a time? Because?

2) How many can a reeducation center allow? 5 total, you don't have to train them there.

3) Why does such a roguish class need to rely on House membership to take full advantage of their trans skill? I'd hoped the long-awaited skill would be doing away with restriction. CIJ membership, not house membership. Only CIJ gets the 5

So Option B, could we just get a public mouse center with some sort of cost to use it? (cause jesters aren't expensive enough yet) Doubtful, but maybe a house mechanic could be added?

Kyrra

I never understood why the Warlocks need Runewardens when they already have Shamans for Runelore.

I want to join the Ashura where all the hot people are

Xith

Pretty sure reeducation centers can be purchased by houses as an add-on. Still poses a problem for jesters that can't join a house.

EDIT: Realize that isn't a mechanical issue. Garden can't tell a house to start accepting my class just cause none of them do.

Also can't force the CIJ to be a more desirable place to be.

And if not having mice at all wasn't enough to get me to join CIJ, having 3 extra ones now isn't going to change that.

And even if a non-Ashtani house bought an education center, I don't think that's incentive enough to switch cities either. Any reason we can't just delete the CIJ's mouse center and give everyone 5 mice universally?

Rispok

Houses can't purchase the add-on unless this has changed recently, I'm fairly certain. The answer we have always been supplied in the past is, "legacy code, sorry."

Echald

Well, maybe it's a bit less legacy now, with all jesters having a new mice limit and training method.

Shirszae

It really sounds like you just want things to be convenient to you. 

Kyrra

Houses need to have incentive for members and for a few classes, being able to access things like milking rooms, training centres, and master crystals (prior to the public one) helped to keep rogue population down.

I think hatcheries for falcons were only accessible through orgs for a while too.

I kind of like those restrictions. If you want to use those abilities, join a house that caters for them.

Naisar

This only works if the houses feel it would be beneficial to shell out for the improvements.

Eld

Kyrra said:

Houses need to have incentive for members and for a few classes, being able to access things like milking rooms, training centres, and master crystals (prior to the public one) helped to keep rogue population down. I think hatcheries for falcons were only accessible through orgs for a while too. I kind of like those restrictions. If you want to use those abilities, join a house that caters for them.

There's a public master crystal?

Kyrra

Yes @Eld. It's in Tasur'ke and expensive to use from what I've heard, but it still exists.

Sena

It's not a master crystal, just a denizen that sells crystals.

Berenene

Not a master crystal per se, but a place where you can buy crystals from, IIRC

Echald

You do lose on crystalhome, I believe. And any Targossian Magi will tell you how expensive using those public things are. The House may not be essential, but it's a really strong advantage still. Kinda like if a rogue monk had to pay 25 gold per combo, 40 gold for a backbreaker and 50 gold per choke.

Eld

Right, I knew it was possible to buy crystals. I think of the advantage of an MC as being able to get them "free".

Kyrra

Oh, didn't realise those room items were only for show down there.

Mishgul

trans skills are overrated, i win like 99% of my fights without ever touching the trans skills of any of the classes i've been.

Dragonknight

Mishgul said:

trans skills are overrated, i win like 99% of my fights without ever touching the trans skills of any of the classes i've been.

OH YEA?! I've got one word for you mister!

Transcretion!

Berenene

Dragonknight said:

Mishgul said:

trans skills are overrated, i win like 99% of my fights without ever touching the trans skills of any of the classes i've been.

OH YEA?! I've got one word for you mister!

Transcretion!

I think there's a cream for that now...

Mishgul

I had transcretion for like 2 months of fighting as  a serpent but was too lazy to change my aliases so I still envenomed from vials.

Eld

- BANISH (Kaido) has been reworked, and will now send an opponent's mount into limbo for a short duration.

I take it this means it now only banishes mounts, not people? And does it still not work in the arena?

Sasiya

The monk changes look amazing. Maybe it's time to give the class a try.

Penwize

Sasiya said:

The monk changes look amazing. Maybe it's time to give the class a try.

Amazing how? It was one quality of life improvement (stance, which is definitely a buff and is great), one sidegrade (RHK lost its targetted, low limb damage, high-speed kick goodness in exchange for a paralysis kick, making it essentially a more thematic curare handaxe throw that's not targetted and doesn't do limb damage), one ineffective buff (who uses RAT stance? Ever?), and otherwise hard nerfs.

Karai

From what I can tell our boosted Kai-gain is cut in half and there is no compensation for those classes that gave little to no Kai in the first place. Sure people somtimes complain about Kai-choke but this makes Monks have to struggle a lot to get a foothold in that skill: cutting Monk survivability and offense. Pharaus proposed that if Kai-gain is to be kept so enfeebled (pun intended), at least increase how long Kai can be held for rather than it disappearing so soon after gaining it so that we have more opportunity to use the higher-level abilities, or lessen the cut to Kai gain.

Guarding I can live with, but I'm not happy about it. The stun at least makes it so we can attack limbs to keep prepping. We'll make it work.

Blademasters I always see as positioning their scabbards some way. Monk stances just seem more intricate where you'd have to hop around to change rooms. Not that I'm complaining, best classlead we've had in a long time.

And that hour where jpk didn't unstance us was pretty awesome. Now I can gloat to Laergon about some awesome stuff I once had.

Mishgul

Monk changes mean that a knight isn't playing russian roulette against them.

Xith

And that they don't get all the kai they need so much faster than jesters get fashions for equivalent skills. 

Iocun

Well, the problem with kai is just that against longer-lasting preps such as a knight's limb prep or a jester/shaman's fashions, it dissipates relatively quickly, so their opposing prep class can just prep super slow, keeping the monk's kai at a minimum while getting no downside on their own.

On the other hand, momentum classes (apostates, priests, damage magi, damage occultists, alchemists, serpents, etc.) will constantly give the monk kai, so then the monk can afford taking his prep really slow, building up on kai (even at the now reduced rate), and then using it to its full effect.

That means that in both cases, one party is rewarded for defensive fighting, which is, IMHO, the central problem about kai trance in the first place. It working like shindo would leave kai generation in the hands of the monk himself and would be inherently better balanced, in my opinion.

Iocun

Daeir said:

I think this change was primarily suited to toning back banish spam in raids since that was getting pretty ridiculous.

Not really, since banish was already dealt with in another fashion. It now mostly serves to limit cripple/crush/enfeeble, limiting cripple being the most important one to me. Since you can still gain kai from allies, this primarily affects 1v1.

Eld

Daeir said:

I can't really agree that the notion was specifically intended for 1v1, though I am likely wrong. I have significant issues retaining kai throughout spark conflicts, especially when I am banishing allies whom are being radianced every 10 seconds or so. Halving the amount of kai I get will introduce an element of attrition to these fights which was not present before - while that is not overtly relevant to radiance given its duration, it's definitely going to be an issue in more protracted fights, at least for me.

I am super ecstatic about stances persisting between rooms though. That is going to save so much endurance/willpower for bashing, and also encourage people to experiment with the other stances a little more (hopefully, but probably not).

Why would not having to stance save you willpower?