Targossas Subdivision Petition

Xenomorph

Sothantos said:

For the last time, we no longer have an indoors entrance.

The rest of the city is not any more defensible than any other city, either.

Made of straw or made of steel, you guys are setting yourselves up for failure if you don't address the underlying cause of why this was all necessary in the first place. You guys need to go Crusaders style evil, in your own way. Island and Twin Lords sound like a trifecta of brilliance. Fanatical obedience is going to empower you. A corrupt leader is what will kill you. As nobody has the moral compass to admit such a thing. Disregard this all you want, but a rotten core doesn't hold steel girders well. I don't know any of you, but I would wish you some measure of success, if a true attempt is put forth.

Tecton

The situation here was a bit of a case of "damned if you do", "damned if you don't", as if we'd done a new subdivision, there would be a similar thread about people incurring losses in the destroying of their subdivision houses to relocate them to the new city. I should note that the "flooded" subdivision was just a stopgap measure to allow people temporary access to their homes, and was never intended as a permanent solution.

We felt this was the fairest course of action, as a vast majority of the former Shallam population would most-likely join Targossas, so bringing their housing into the new city would result in the least loss (similar to what happened with the city's shops).

If you're finding it difficult to reconcile the change from an IC point-of-view, one way to look at it is that it's still a brand new subdivision (as evidenced by the entirely new map) - the fact that people have "rebuilt" their homes (or that Maeris has done it for them) is testament to the mortal spirit. 

We are examining the viability of some solutions to try an alleviate the raised concerns, including the ability to transfer housing estates -out- of Targossas to a different subdivision, so stay tuned!

Silas

@Tecton: While you're considering that, can you also consider allowing cities to buy back/seize plots that are owned and not built on, or relocate plots, whether built on or not, within their subdivision? This would allow all city leaders and enterprising development ministers a chance at restructuring the godawful work of their predecessors without costing players anything.

Tecton

We're looking at the first option, yes.

Veldrin

It was neat as a permanent solution, how about setting it back and allowing people to transfer housing estates into whatever subdivision they wish (if any)?

Mizik

Read a few posts, don't get thread.

Iocun

I only read the title and I'm assuming this is a petition to subdivide Targossas into West Targossas and East Targossas and build a wall between the two.

Berenene

Iocun said:

I only read the title and I'm assuming this is a petition to subdivide Targossas into West Targossas and East Targossas and build a wall between the two.

Yes, because that always turns out well for all parties involved. *sagenod*

That's better

Eld

Iocun said:

I only read the title and I'm assuming this is a petition to subdivide Targossas into West Targossas and East Targossas and build a wall between the two.

Obviously you've got it all wrong. The idea is for the Clockwork Isle denizens to invent clockwork trains and build their first railroad through Targossas.

Mizik

So you want subs in a new shape? Or just scrambled plots in random locations?

Two sets of subs?

Refund why? We all getting house refunds?

Draekar

@Tecton @Deucalion @Aurora

I love the RP idea of having the subs setup as one of the Islands on Targossas. I also love that you saved/moved everyone's plots/houses, even if most of them are dormant or enemied it was still a good compromise for players that have had a lot removed already. so firstly big ups for that.

I do have a rant/request though.

1. Was it necessary to delete all the totems? surely they could have been transferred over and re-designated as owned by Targossas?

2. Having started working on the subs I am guessing a room count of 3155? (just had to guess so might be off) but that is something like 4-5x the old Shallam subs?

To re-totem and totem that is 

3155 totems

almost 400 hours of implanting (with a gauntlet)

over 60k wood, 30k leather and 6k silver, 15k red ink and 3k yellow ink

To decorate and retile the subs from plain green to some form of roads, lakes, gardens and forests will also cost around 15,775,000 gold at a conservative average of 5k per tile

On top of this I am under the impression that all the Houses will have totems in them that now need to be uprooted and re-implanted as well. I don't have an estimate for this but I expect it will be huge as well. As will re-sigiling everything.

I guess all the old totems are gone now, but given how big a drop of rooms this is, is it possible to have the subs reduced to a smaller Island just around the actual plots/houses owned? 

To illustrate this here is a map of the current subdivision http://pastebin.com/Tzepkcf8

You can see that the majority of this Island design is just extra blank space. the same shaped Island could be designed more tightly just around the currently owned plots? Targossas could expand this to a bigger Island in time but this reduction could cut back the number of rooms to deal with by at least 2/3 leaving a much more manageable subdivision to totem, tile and setup at this time.

If this or some other helpful support could be considered it would be much appreciated.

Kazu

Sounds like it's about time for the @Kyrra signal.

Ada

Oh wow, that's a lot of rooms. Perhaps the citizens could be temporarily given the ability to implant totems and all of us could help with the massive re-toteming project?

Kyrra

I'd be happy to offer my services to Targossas. You know how much I love handling wood.

Sylvance

Whatever happened to that sweet, innocent little girl?

Kyrra

She joined Ashtan.

Synbios

Sylvance said:

Whatever happened to that sweet, innocent little girl?

There is no such thing as innocence, only varying degrees of guilt. And Kyrra? She just broke the scale. Emperor protect us all.

-High Inquisitor [EXPUNGED]

Achilles

Kyrra said:

She joined Ashtan.

You misunderstood us when we said Ashtan was full of dicks.

Antonius

@Achilles: Inappropriate.

Vaehl

Don't haaaaaave to totem the entire subs.

Kyrra

Yes they do. :-\"

Draekar

Vaehl said:

Don't haaaaaave to totem the entire subs.

Yeah it is one of those things really. It is entirely a player choice to make the subs more secure/defendable (ie toteming), and sure sub raids are super rare now too but we always get randoms running around what ever part of the city they can run around and so for a faction that has more enemies than friends we have to accept the security cost as part and parcel of playing in the Good faction.

I would have appreciated a response though as to why we have had such a ridiculesly large subdivision dropped on us, and or if Targossas would get any support with the security demands of that, but meh, it is what it is.

Kakotas

Personal observation (as much of a pain as it would be) coding it so there is a small (read one time only and would have had to be established before the fall) subdivision towards the east side of Jaru would be an option that I think would allow most of the damed if you don't group to be satisfied while allowing most of the group in the we-want-a-new-place to be pleased. Just maybe me. I'd much rather a simple place like that since about half of shallam is now either in cyrene or somewhere else.

Zuko

So I just read this entire threat (The topic related posts, not the misc. totem and irrelevant posts), because I was also quite disappointed when we found the Shallam subdivision transported into Targossas. 

I agree with those who point out, it should go back underwater, and Targossas should be given a fresh isle of uninhabited plots, because that is how Targossas is.

As @Tecton said, it is a catch 22 situation, damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Well I believe that the clear solution to accomodate both sides. I believe that if the Shallam subdivision goes back to Shallam wreckage, and Targossas is given a fresh subdivision, then a transportation method for houses could be put into place. 

Not for anyone, just those who owned houses in in the old subdivision, could transport it over to the new subdivision upon purchasing a plot. This would be free of charge, the owner only having to pay for the new plot. 

I don't see any objections to this from either party, it is only fair to both of us. Besides, this rids of two nuisances when it comes to old subdivisions:

1.) There are not a bunch of wasted empty plots purchased by players that will likely never return.

2.) There are not houses owned by dormant players, who may also never return, in a 40+ room radius from the entrance requiring extensive walking to get to the new plots.

If this still seems uneven @Tecton, then we could even give players who are moving houses to the new subdivision first dibs at the plots nearest to the entrance.

Please and thank you!

Azor

I'll just comment that I was pleased to regain access to my old Shallam house, and then deflated when the subdivision went into Targossas.

Zuko

Seems to be the common consensus, I would have appreciated (No offense) If they had taken a consensus of some sorts. A poll here, I dont know..