Good RP and bad RP habits

Jonathin

So, I wanted to open a thread that helps people who are not so confident with their role playing ability. I am admittedly not the single best role player in the game, but neither am I the worst and this could possibly help me and other seasoned veterans take notice of some bad habits that we have developed so that we might fix them. 

Here are some of my ideas that help build good RP habits:

• learn how to use the TMOTE system. It's amazing and much better than the standard, built-in emotes.
• Play your role consistently.
• Don't make abrupt changes to the core of your character's persona. Make gradual changes instead (unless you're lobotomized by Babel or something).
• Don't join OOC clans if you have a hard time separating IC and OOC feelings.
• Your character is not an extension of your OOC self. It may have started off as a reflection of yourself, but it is a persona of its own.
• You should feel slightly schizophrenic. (I do, at least, when I refer to Mosr)
• KNOW THE IC/OOC BARRIER AND RESPECT IT.

These are just my opinions on things that help build good RP. Below are some habits I find completely reprehensible.

• Spamming anything for any reason. You can roll on the ground laughing once, but doing it repeatedly just makes me think that you're having a seizure.
• Flying off the handle and dropping the f-bomb and other curses toward another PLAYER. The character killed you, your character should only be angry with the killer character, not the player behind the character.
• Issuing for anything less than genuine harassment or griefing.
• Telling someone to issue. Issues are an OOC mechanic and the decision to do so should be the issuer's, not the peanut gallery.
• Killing another player because "hey, I'm bored and he's just standing there breathing my air." Have some class and find an actual reason other than "even though I have never interacted with this person on any level, this neutral, non-enemy's presence insults me".
• BREAKING THE IC/OOC BARRIER

That's my spiel. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg, though.

Eld

Jonathin said:

These are just my opinions on things that help build good RP. Below are some habits I find completely reprehensible.

• Killing another player because "hey, I'm bored and he's just standing there breathing my air." Have some class and find an actual reason other than "even though I have never interacted with this person on any level, this neutral, non-enemy's presence insults me".
• BREAKING THE IC/OOC BARRIER

And most definitely don't do both of those at the same time.

Tanaar

Find an aspect of your race or class that you find fascinating and make a study of it. Learn everything you can, pester relevant denizens for conversations about it, invent reasonable RP extensions of it, and just GO with it. Tailor your racial specialization/trait build around it, even if it's not combat optimal.

Example: a long time ago, I decided to explore the possibilities of the lost telepathic techniques, which get mentioned in every Tele lesson. I specifically went nuts with empathy, including how it worked, the RP utility and limitations of it, how I could use it in healing rituals, and so forth. I finally got a long talk with Marhisa about the IC mechanics and differences between concoctions, Devotional healing, magical healing like vibes and tarot, and empathy. It remains one of my favorite conversations with a denizen.

Jiraishin

Don't overdo character exposition. There are situations where a character might feel compelled to tell their life story. Trying to create such situations can feel forced if you are not careful. This is especially true if working off a small bit of interaction and/or speaking with someone your character does not know well.

Keep some kind of record of your character's actions and milestones. An IC journal works nicely, particularly now they can't be stolen. It lets you better remember your character's history, which can enrich future interactions. If that history is slightly skewed due to the perceptions with which you wrote it, so much the better.

Nim

@Jiraishin: The journal thing is really cool advice that I wish I did with Nim more often, but, just as a side note, journals can still be stolen - just not directly by other players. I still have no clue where Nim's first journal went, after the Ormyrr stole it.

Jiraishin

If you keep it in a worn container, I don't think anything can take it off your corpse.

Hyraeth

My journal got stolen, with all of Hyraeth's angsty thoughts. Hyraeth still cringes at the thought of it being OUT THERE. But I, the player, have several embedded folders full of text files with said angsty thoughts, character evolutions etc.


Re not letting the character be an extension of yourself -- I think an extension or a shadow self is a valid roleplaying choice. The character will still develop organically separate of whatever you impose on him/her, and I think organic/natural roleplay is best (YMMV). Also re schizophrenia, haha. I'd rather be a bad roleplayer than have my head messed up, but having said that, it does happen. There's always this interesting moment after I've logged in when H takes over (and I don't even approve of Method -- as opposed to System -- acting!), and I find myself amused when H reacts to things or people in a way that I would not. If I think it's not going to mess /me/ up, I usually let my character do what she wants. If I think it's going to complicate things, I drag her by the ear. It's not too different from what I do as an author, anyway. Characters are meant to run away from us. Achaea just makes that even more interesting because of all the additional avenues provided.

Chryenth

Can we get an idiot's guide to the TMOTE system from someone? I can't remember if I ever got one of those to work.

Also, echoing what Tanaar said. Find something interesting, and run with it.

Mishgul

I don't know what tmote is:(

Sylvance

Just a little tip that's helped me out in the past:

When speaking OOCly about IC events, use the third person. This has really helped me to keep the barrier there, which if I'm quite honest is something that I don't always find easy.  Here's an example.  Please disregard the fact that discussing this OOCly would probably not be a good idea anyway, hopefully you get the point I'm making:

Bad: (OOC Clan) You say, "Jonathin, why the heck did you just kill me at NoT?"

Better: (OOC Clan) You say, "Dude, why the heck did Jonathin just kill Sylvance at NoT?"

Verbally objectifying your character when you aren't in role can really help you to remember that those things have been done to your character by another character and not to you by another player.

Katzchen

Well here's some examples from aliases I have. I like examples, they help me work things out better.

tmote 's gaze. ++ A glint of dark amusement briefly crosses = A glint of dark amusement briefly crosses Katzchen's gaze.

tmote 's lips, her eyes alight with mirth. ++ A wicked smile plays across = A wicked smile plays across Katzchen's lips, her eyes alight with mirth.

tmote smiles at $Target, blushing softly as she meets $his gaze = (room sees) Katzchen smiles at Target, blushing softly as she meets his/her gaze. (Target sees) Katzchen smiles at you, blushing softly as she meets your gaze.)


Basically tmote works like em/emote, except if you use $Name then it replaces that with you for that person, and he/she for other people. Then if you use $his, it replaces it with your for the target, or his/her for others. The last key rule, is that anything that comes after the ++ is what shows before your name.

Arlanda

I agree that the worst RP possible is when someone cannot differentiate what is happening IC and OOC. Your character could bear a grudge on another character but it is different from you bearing a grudge behind the person playing the other character. Also, constantly kicking up drama is also irritating.

Shunsui

Pretty sure Iocun or someone has a script that makes tmotes easier, or converts emotes into tmotes or something. I keep meaning to try it but I've spent too much time learning how to do them on my own.

Drauka

Shunsui said:

Pretty sure Iocun or someone has a script that makes tmotes easier, or converts emotes into tmotes or something. I keep meaning to try it but I've spent too much time learning how to do them on my own.

https://code.google.com/p/iocun-mudlet-scripts/downloads/detail?name=emote%20extended.xml&can=2&q=

Katzchen

There's a script, but it doesn't seem to be 100% accurate. (or maybe people just stuff it up) I'd rather manual it either way.

Jurixe

@Iocun's tmote script is the greatest thing I have ever downloaded. Saves me the hassle of trying to figure out exactly what I should type and exactly how it'll come out as. Personal endorsement!

Iocun

I wish I could make it even simpler to use and eliminate the need for the dollar signs, but I can think of no practical way to do that.

@Katzchen: I'm not aware of any inaccuracies with the script (except one tiny thing @Nim pointed out to me which I've fixed by now), although the whole tmoting mechanic has some weirdnesses in itself. But if it behaves differently than it should in some case, please let me know so I can fix it.

Tael

Having an emote/tmote script is absolutely wonderful. After I saw Iocun's, I wrote myself a slightly modified one immediately and I don't think I could live without it (even if I still occasionally forget to put in the dollar sign...).

The things I try to keep in mind (BEGIN WALL OF TEXT):

1) Big changes in character are fine if justified. If you have an idea of a big change you want to make, think of something that would justify it. You can be proactive in this - not all changes are reactionary (and you can engineer "reactions" - if you want to play a bit more unhinged, hold a ritual that "backfires"). Also, if you're trying to get into RP and have a background that's holding you back, a big, abrupt change is probably worth the cost.

2) Characterisation through material goods is absolutely great if you can keep track of it. Remember that most people won't read your description or clothes, but it's easy to work it into emotes. Tael has a mask that covers one eye - so he rolls his visible eye, not his eyes. I enjoy when people do things like that - they make use of quirks as part of actual, normal communication - not just to display the quirk.

3) Don't do set emotes except maybe for the most basic actions. You can have habits and you can have stereotypical actions that your character does absentmindedly, but having them always show up as the same line feels mechanical and breaks immersion.

4) Make as few decisions about your background as possible. This is a classic technique for group storytelling of any kind and it has dual benefits: you avoid the temptation to info-dump (you will virtually always be more interested in the things you've written than other people will) and you leave room to be able to create background pieces in the moment when they'll lead to something interesting. If you decide you're from X and had Y upbringing, that's only important when you happen to run into very particular contexts. If you leave it open, you can make an on-the-spot decision to enrich a given RP interaction by creating an illusorily deeper connection. This also has a sort of third benefit in that it means you build your background more gradually, which usually makes it easier to remember. It even has a sort of fourth benefit in Achaea in that the newbie sequence gives you full license to "forget" and gradually "remember" your background.

5) Think deeply about your factions' intersecting philosophies and try to find a novel interpretation. People stress this a lot, but I don't know of many characters who really truly do this and those who do stand out as very strong roleplayers in my mind. I don't just mean "To me, Good is about Duty and Kindness". I think the crucial thing is that you should hold ideas that people could and would actually disagree with. No one will disagree with the idea that Good involves Duty and Kindness in a truly substantial way. Tael's view of Evil as a sort of radically empirical philosophy, however, has resulted in a lot of great interaction.

6) Find good people to RP with. Big RP names are easier to interact with than you think. Come up with a pretext (I like scholarly discussion) and send a tell or letter. Usually, you can even RP with mortal enemies so long as you think of a decent pretext that precludes immediate violence.

7) Connected to that, think about the RP you like to see. Think of the times when you thought to yourself "that was so cool" and try to do things that you think would generate that response.

8) Don't be embarassed. I've done things with Tael that have absolutely flopped. Things that I thought people would like, but ended up being awkward or boring or seemingly egocentric (special-snowflakey). It's usually not hard to tell when something goes badly, but you can't let that prevent you from trying. Even when you do good things, there will always be haters.

9) Immersion is not a function of being boring and average, it's a function of being justified. Boring and average buys you realism because it's easy to justify, but it's usually not very memorable. Boring is better than unjustified, but justified interesting is the best.

10) This is going to sound very strange, but make liberal use of OOC (corollary: MARK your damn OOC messages in some way that makes it explicit - a good solution is to make an alias where you can do "ooc Tael I need to tell you something" and have it send to the game "tell Tael OOC: I need to tell you something". I'm happy to supply my own version of this with an additional ooc-retell script if people want it). If you can't keep up an IC/OOC barrier, work on that before absolutely anything else and just as you don't let OOC interfere with IC, don't accidentally substitute OOC interaction for IC action. That said, the "OOC Escape Hatch" is an incredible solution to a huge array of problems and a little OOC setup can really, really help with opening doors and I've found that it helps to remind people that you're all trying to have fun as players even if your characters are opposed (if someone rejects an IC invitation to RP for IC reasons, an OOC message can very often lead to finding some better IC justification to have that IC interaction afterall). Edit: And for the love of god if you give someone an IC date, send them an OOC message - it's too easy for one or the other party to mess up the conversion.

Jonathin

Tael said:

8) Don't be embarassed. I've done things with Tael that have absolutely flopped. Things that I thought people would like, but ended up being awkward or boring or seemingly egocentric (special-snowflakey). It's usually not hard to tell when something goes badly, but you can't let that prevent you from trying. Even when you do good things, there will always be haters.

10) This is going to sound very strange, but make liberal use of OOC (corollary: MARK your damn OOC messages in some way that makes it explicit - a good solution is to make an alias where you can do "ooc Tael I need to tell you something" and have it send to the game "tell Tael OOC: I need to tell you something". I'm happy to supply my own version of this with an additional ooc-retell script if people want it). If you can't keep up an IC/OOC barrier, work on that before absolutely anything else and just as you don't let OOC interfere with IC, don't accidentally substitute OOC interaction for IC action. That said, the "OOC Escape Hatch" is an incredible solution to a huge array of problems and a little OOC setup can really, really help with opening doors and I've found that it helps to remind people that you're all trying to have fun as players even if your characters are opposed (if someone rejects an IC invitation to RP for IC reasons, an OOC message can very often lead to finding some better IC justification to have that IC interaction afterall). Edit: And for the love of god if you give someone an IC date, send them an OOC message - it's too easy for one or the other party to mess up the conversion.

These two especially.

Edit: 2, not 3

Delphinus

@Sylvance: Third-person references can help if you're struggling to differentiate, but to me, it often comes off as schizophrenic. We use our names for avatars, not just as characters, so speaking in the third person just sounds recursive and weird -- especially when you're already in an OOC context. "Delphinus says, 'Delphinus is angry!'" <--- Well, yeah, obviously.

If you feel the need to specify, just say your character's angry, or that you're not really upset IRL, or that you are upset because god damn it why did you frag me that's two hours of grinding I could've spent watching cartoons.

Sancero

If tmoting is so complicated you need a script for it, perhaps it's a sign tmoting should be recoded.

Valden

Sancero said:

If tmoting is so complicated you need a script for it, perhaps it's a sign tmoting should be recoded.

In general, the more powerful something is, the more complicated it is to use. TMOTE is rather powerful with what you can do with it. Now that doesn't mean I'm saying it couldn't do with a rework, the syntax is rather arcane to look at, but it's because it is so flexible and with the nature of command-line input it makes it quite hard to craft an elegant solution.

Eld

Valden said:

Sancero said:

If tmoting is so complicated you need a script for it, perhaps it's a sign tmoting should be recoded.

In general, the more powerful something is, the more complicated it is to use. TMOTE is rather powerful with what you can do with it. Now that doesn't mean I'm saying it couldn't do with a rework, the syntax is rather arcane to look at, but it's because it is so flexible and with the nature of command-line input it makes it quite hard to craft an elegant solution.

True, but if the scripts people have preserve all the functionality with a significantly easier syntax, recoding it with that syntax (or something similarly easy) seems like a reasonable suggestion.

Valden

Eld said:

Valden said:

Sancero said:

If tmoting is so complicated you need a script for it, perhaps it's a sign tmoting should be recoded.

In general, the more powerful something is, the more complicated it is to use. TMOTE is rather powerful with what you can do with it. Now that doesn't mean I'm saying it couldn't do with a rework, the syntax is rather arcane to look at, but it's because it is so flexible and with the nature of command-line input it makes it quite hard to craft an elegant solution.

True, but if the scripts people have preserve all the functionality with a significantly easier syntax, recoding it with that syntax (or something similarly easy) seems like a reasonable suggestion.

I totally agree, I'm just trying to think if there is an edge case that isn't obvious at first glance.

Nim

I don't think tmote is too complicated. Iocun's script does not reduce its functional complexity, it merely fixes a counter-intuitive design that really ought to be changed.

Right now, how you emote is:

<emote command> <post-text> [++ <pre-text>]

What it shows up as, and what you'll tend to think of it as, is:

<pre-text> <charactername> <post-text>

Iocun's script lets you type it in the latter method. Given that most people think in that way (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!), that's how it ought to be. It doesn't simplify dealing with other adventurers at all, ergo the complexity remains the same. The only real simplification is that the script attempts to intelligently find <charactername> for you, and break it up based on that if it's found (or, if not, work without any pre-text).

Also, to stay on topic, roleplaying advice: let your character make mistakes or have flaws. Don't go overboard and let your character's flaws solely define them, but your character is defined by their mistakes just as much as their successes. Plus, if you let them make mistakes from time to time, then when they or you mess up, it can feel like their mistake instead of yours, and it can be easier to separate yourself from your character that way.

Vayne

Never thought the tmote system was that hard to start with myself. People seem to bawk at using masculine pronouns in the syntax even for females.

Kyorkcha

I think keeping a sticky note next to you on the beliefs and personality archetypes of your character can typically help for those having trouble playing someone unlike their personality.

I'm usually always willing to spit in my own opinion, and be gracious attending to all forms of social formalities, but I need to stop that if I wan't to play my character like I want to play her.
So I kept a sticky note next to where I usually sit my laptop stating:
Calm towards others failures,

Enraged at own failure, sometimes to point of harming herself

Prefers Horkvali hive-like culture above all else,

Is more comfortable speaking Horkvali than Achaean

Believes in a form of telepathic "hivemind" between all sapient creatures

Beleive this "hivemind" passively portrays aspects such as strength, and wisdom to those who lack it.

Beleives by improving herself before others, she can aid others without actually teaching them.

Is highly introspective, speaking little with her mouth, but is wordy in any psychic channels.

Now the Post-it is more brief, but If i listed it to you word for word, it would make no sence.

But all of these features translate into a intriguing playstyle for me. To maintain a FULLY IC state I must:
"L" somebody before talking to them, If they are a horkval, begin speaking to them in Horkvali.

Constantly seeking aspects of her elusive ancient culture that were lost to the ages.

Consistently train and seek perfection in herself, and try to make up for other's failings herself.

Kyorkcha doesn't act normally, even compared to many horkval, and because I don't have reason to speak to others about my philosophy, It causes people to perceive me as alien. Basically one of my goals.

To basically summarize my experiences with character-crafting, physical flaws aren't nearly as important and psychological or personality flaws. And if you just write down a small list of ideals for your character to stick to, those flaws will show themselves in a natural and seamless manner in which you didn't really notice in the first place.

Sothantos

Tael said:

3) Don't do set emotes except maybe for the most basic actions. You can have habits and you can have stereotypical actions that your character does absentmindedly, but having them always show up as the same line feels mechanical and breaks immersion.

It's easy to think this, but I actually find the opposite to be true. I find a lot of the time that new 'roleplayers' tend to over-emote, which comes across as flowery and 'special snow-flakey' a lot of the time, which is significantly more distracting than preset emotes because it draws attention to their roleplay: that is, it calls attention to the fact that they are roleplaying, which breaks immersion. Sometimes a nod is just a nod, and simple is better than complex. An emote should convey exactly what you mean it to convey, and nothing more than necessary. There's nothing wrong with repetition or using the same line: for instance, a novelist in a book isn't going to write up a variant of nodding every time he wants his character to nod.

Averi

@Sothantos Agreed. ALL the agreed

Although, it also depends on what kind of character you are trying to portray. Some are more special snowflakey than others.  I find it better to comb through the preset emote list, gag the ones that don't suit your character, alter a few of them that would suit your char if one or two words were changed and then use maybe one or two truly custom ones.  Another thing I don't like about like not pre-set emotes are that it takes forever to type so while i'm waiting for the other person to emote back, my attention has already wandered to the next episode of Adventure Time.

Tael

Sothantos said:

Tael said:

3) Don't do set emotes except maybe for the most basic actions. You can have habits and you can have stereotypical actions that your character does absentmindedly, but having them always show up as the same line feels mechanical and breaks immersion.

It's easy to think this, but I actually find the opposite to be true. I find a lot of the time that new 'roleplayers' tend to over-emote, which comes across as flowery and 'special snow-flakey' a lot of the time, which is significantly more distracting than preset emotes because it draws attention to their roleplay: that is, it calls attention to the fact that they are roleplaying, which breaks immersion. Sometimes a nod is just a nod, and simple is better than complex. An emote should convey exactly what you mean it to convey, and nothing more than necessary. There's nothing wrong with repetition or using the same line: for instance, a novelist in a book isn't going to write up a variant of nodding every time he wants his character to nod.

Yeah, I'm completely in agreeement for basic actions like nodding or short emotes. I meant the flowery emotes. I think those emotes have their (infrequent) place too, but if you do use them, you really shouldn't have set versions.

Put another way, I meant more the people who have very particular emotes that aren't actually used like emotes (communicatively), but more like periodic atmospheric lines involving things like absent-minded motion (which really, tend to be bad in pretty much all cases anyway - though I was guilty of this in the past too).

Jiraishin

this is what 'sip kawhe' is for.