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Offensive Artefacts and Monks

OmorOmor Posts: 756Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
Am I the only one that feels like Monks drew the short straw when it comes to offensive artefacts?

Let me explain.
Weapon-wielders can buy artefact weapons, which increase Damage, Accuracy, and Speed. Monks can buy Armbands, which increase accuracy, and knuckles, which increase punch damage, which is only around 60% of our combo damage. We have no offensive artefacts to increase speed, or to increase the other 40ish% of our damage, the kick.
On top of this, we can not get Asp, which I understand isn't for every class either, but it again leaves out Monks.
So, in comparison to, say a DWC Runie, we have a maximum of 20% increased to-hit and 35% increased damage to tekura punches. The Runie can have a maximum of Two Lvl3 Artie Scimitars*, each Asp'd, to increase their total damage, to-hit, speed, and venom.

This thread is about artefacts, but another thing to factor in is that Monks have no bleed or fracture, in comparison to weapon-wielding classes, so why do I feel we draw the short straw on arties as well?

NOTE: I want it known I'm not a numbers guy, I haven't crunched these. I understand that our max Armbands (20% increased to-hit) may be higher than the to-hit increase of a lvl3 weapon from a forged one, but I personally feel like in the big picture, monks have less of an advantage using max level artie Armbands and Knuckles than a weapon-wielding class would with their max level artie weapon and asp. Please feel free to crunch these numbers and let me know I'm wrong, as I said, this is just how it feels to me.
*- I also know most dual wielders won't spend 3200cr on both lvl3 weapons, but this is an example for theory, not actuality.
Omor Ceberek - Targossas

got gud
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Comments

  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,424Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Monks dont have artefact weapons because monks don't wield weapons. Their very minds and bodies, sharp, whipcord, and strong, are their chosen weapons. Strengthen yourself, grasshopper, and you will find peace which you seek



    (with stats-boosting artefacts)



    ShirszaeTelendrieth
  • FrederichFrederich Posts: 1,243Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Omor said:
    Am I the only one that feels like Monks drew the short straw when it comes to offensive artefacts?

    Let me explain.
    Weapon-wielders can buy artefact weapons, which increase Damage, Accuracy, and Speed. Monks can buy Armbands, which increase accuracy, and knuckles, which increase punch damage, which is only around 60% of our combo damage. We have no offensive artefacts to increase speed, or to increase the other 40ish% of our damage, the kick.
    On top of this, we can not get Asp, which I understand isn't for every class either, but it again leaves out Monks.
    So, in comparison to, say a DWC Runie, we have a maximum of 20% increased to-hit and 35% increased damage to tekura punches. The Runie can have a maximum of Two Lvl3 Artie Scimitars*, each Asp'd, to increase their total damage, to-hit, speed, and venom.

    This thread is about artefacts, but another thing to factor in is that Monks have no bleed or fracture, in comparison to weapon-wielding classes, so why do I feel we draw the short straw on arties as well?

    NOTE: I want it known I'm not a numbers guy, I haven't crunched these. I understand that our max Armbands (20% increased to-hit) may be higher than the to-hit increase of a lvl3 weapon from a forged one, but I personally feel like in the big picture, monks have less of an advantage using max level artie Armbands and Knuckles than a weapon-wielding class would with their max level artie weapon and asp. Please feel free to crunch these numbers and let me know I'm wrong, as I said, this is just how it feels to me.
    *- I also know most dual wielders won't spend 3200cr on both lvl3 weapons, but this is an example for theory, not actuality.
    Well like.

    I did the math and a level 3 sword is somewhere in the ballpark of 10% boost to all levels compared to a forged sword (i think i compared it to the best one you can get).  10% faster, 10% more accuracy, and 10% more damage... roughly.  Two handed weapons get better damage outputs.

    The downside is that uh... the accuracy armband, as a whole, seems kindddd of useless unless you're attacking people who dodge a ton.  Even then.. yeah.  Now the knuckles are 'sort' of good.  35% extra damage to your punches (which are about 35-40% of your tekura damage) is pretty cool.  It helps with hunting, a bit, and makes limb breaks take less time.  It's still 3200 CR, but you know.
  • OmorOmor Posts: 756Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Halos said:
    Monks dont have artefact weapons because monks don't wield weapons. Their very minds and bodies, sharp, whipcord, and strong, are their chosen weapons. Strengthen your body, grasshopper, and you will find peace which you seek



    (with stats-boosting artefacts)




    I appreciate you changing this from your original comment, because the very title of the post is "Offensive Artefacts". I am fully aware of how useful stat boosting artefacts are, but this post wasn't about that.
    Antonius said:
    Asp is literally worthless. It does nothing whatsoever if you're using venoms that you choose (which you should be), and if you're not doing that the randomly selected venoms are on the whole pointless.

    Monk benefits from both strength and intelligence, and the bonus from strength and knuckles on raw damage is higher than it is for knights, as far as I know. They definitely don't draw the short straw.

    I agree Asp isn't much use, but it's still an option. And like I said, I'm unsure if the dmg boost form knuckles outweighs the artefact dmg, but that still doesn't consider the speed boost that artefact weapons supply that Monks can't get. If it evens out, sure, no problem, but just doing base rounding, I don't think it does. May be wrong though.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • KafzielKafziel Posts: 658Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Monks actually scale ridiculously well with artefacts. They benefit from all the magical arties for kaido/telepathy, and use every stat so benefit from all 4 stat arties (dex the least but still helps them). I'd say that the short straw for monk is they have such a high artie cap so you have to spend so much money to fully artie out
    HalosSherazad
  • OmorOmor Posts: 756Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 2016
    Kafziel said:
    Monks actually scale ridiculously well with artefacts. They benefit from all the magical arties for kaido/telepathy, and use every stat so benefit from all 4 stat arties (dex the least but still helps them). I'd say that the short straw for monk is they have such a high artie cap so you have to spend so much money to fully artie out
    I'm going to edit the original post since people don't seem to know how to read titles. Gimme a sec.

    Edit: Eh, can't be bothered to figure out how.
    Okay, for all future comments, please keep in mind that I'm speaking about OFFENSIVE artefacts, outlined in HELP ARTEFACTS OFFENSIVE, not those listed under any other HELP ARTEFACTS helpfile.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • HalosHalos San FranciscoPosts: 1,424Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    We're saying that stat-boosting arties -are- your offensive arties, in addition to knuckles, armbands, and other cool things. Just like they are for magi.

    So, to answer your question: yes. Monks "draw the short-straw" when it comes to artefacts on HELP ARTEFACTS OFFENSIVE. It's made up for in other ways. See HELP ARTEFACTS STATS and HELP ARTEFACTS MISC. This seems intentional and thematic.



    Sherazad
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,058Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2016
    Instead of accusing people not being able to read, you should probably read what they are saying.

    Monks benefit from artefacts probably more than any other class. Offensively you can buy collars and Int that increases your choke/crush damage. You benefit from Collar, Sash, Knuckles, Armbands, band of mind distension, Intellect crown, Int stats, Str stats, Con stats. You can't say "only the WEAPONS", and expect responses that aren't discussing the merits of ALL artefacts. 

    Sure, you don't get a flat speed increase from your artefacts, but that's more due to the fact of how Monk is designed with difference stances. SCS stance with a 15% modifier on speed would be ridiculous to have to balance or fight against. Monks put out some of the highest DPS in PvP once artefacted, they have two fantastic kill chains on top of their damage, and they have prep that outstrips all other prep classes except maybe a fully artefact'd Blademaster. That's still a push.

    Not sure what Asp even has to do with anything, it doesn't even add anything to a knight kit except the ability to basically give Loki venoms. Which is worthless. 


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    LucianusSherazad
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,266Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This isn't OP's first post bemoaning the apparently woeful state of Monk, either.

    If your class is getting you down, try another one. There's a whole bunch.
    Lucianus
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Posts: 125Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 2016
    Yeah, if you're going to neglect the other artes that help your offensive, and singularly look at the weapon page for a class that doesn't use weapons.. you're not going to enjoy this ride.

    By that logic Magi are also rather gimped because they have no arte staves, and yet they have a handful of artifacts that can help to boost their damage output.
    HalosLucianus
  • BleakBleak Posts: 350Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    An artie that would make is gain Kai twice as fast. *daydream*. 

    Or... cut Radiance time in half.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna bePosts: 3,303Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bleak said:
    An artie that would make is gain Kai twice as fast. *daydream*. 

    Or... cut Radiance time in half.
    No.

    And no.
    Huh. Neat.
    YselaSherazad
  • BleakBleak Posts: 350Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    :(

    So what about an artefact third arm growing from your chest that lets you punch 3 times instead of twice. 
    Piera
  • ShirszaeShirszae Caer WitrinPosts: 2,790Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That sounds more reasonable  :p

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...

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    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • LucianusLucianus Posts: 385Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Yeah, sure. By this logic. Let's give Apostates level 3 offensive arties to make their Deadeyes 1.5x faster too. Might as well give them an asp add-on with those magical 'piercing' glares.

    Also shall we whine about how blunt weapon users can't have asp add-ons too?

    What about blademasters and their swords not having asp add-ons?

    Oh yeah... Jesters, Occultists, Sylvans, Druids, and Alchemists can use some "offensive artifacts" with asp add-ons and increased attack speed too.

    Magical 'offensive artifact' attack speed increasing and asp add-on arties for everyone!

    Yeah, that will go swimmingly for those who have no arties or are in the mid-tier artie range. Pay more to avoid getting completely roflstomped.
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  • FinkleFinkle Posts: 107Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Lucianus said:

    Magical 'offensive artifact' attack speed increasing and asp add-on arties for everyone!


    How many credits to make my aldar faster and make instill give asp on hit?
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Posts: 125Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Finkle said:
    Lucianus said:

    Magical 'offensive artifact' attack speed increasing and asp add-on arties for everyone!


    How many credits to make my aldar faster and make instill give asp on hit?
    Seven
    FinkleLucianus
  • OmorOmor Posts: 756Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I forgot it's impossible to have a serious discussion on the forums without getting attacked by "my class is worse" or "learn to play noob" trolls. Oh well. 
    If anyone feels like discussing the topic that was originally posted, the benefit of offensive artefacts for monks, I'm still interested in people's opinions. 
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Instead of accusing people not being able to read, you should probably read what they are saying.

    Monks benefit from artefacts probably more than any other class. Offensively you can buy collars and Int that increases your choke/crush damage. You benefit from Collar, Sash, Knuckles, Armbands, band of mind distension, Intellect crown, Int stats, Str stats, Con stats. You can't say "only the WEAPONS", and expect responses that aren't discussing the merits of ALL artefacts. 

    Sure, you don't get a flat speed increase from your artefacts, but that's more due to the fact of how Monk is designed with difference stances. SCS stance with a 15% modifier on speed would be ridiculous to have to balance or fight against. Monks put out some of the highest DPS in PvP once artefacted, they have two fantastic kill chains on top of their damage, and they have prep that outstrips all other prep classes except maybe a fully artefact'd Blademaster. That's still a push.

    Not sure what Asp even has to do with anything, it doesn't even add anything to a knight kit except the ability to basically give Loki venoms. Which is worthless. 
    Dude already said what you needed to know. 
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,579Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As someone who played a monk for 3IG centuries, here's an answer:

    Gauntlets to increase str increase your punch / kick damage, ergo offensive artefact
    Armbands increase chance to hit, ergo offensive artefact (though not nearly as much bang for buck)
    Sash to increase int increase your mind crush / kai choke damage, ergo offensive artefact
    Collar to increase magic damage increase your mind crush damage, ergo offensive artefact
    Knuckles to increase punching damage, ergo offensive artefact.

    No, there's no "weapon", other than the knuckles, but that's because monks in Achaea don't use weapons other than their bodies, and perhaps a sword / axe for behead and throwing weapons for the occasional advanced strategy.

    You can choose to ignore this answer too, if you wish, but if enough people tell you the same thing, will you then believe them?

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • KorrokKorrok Posts: 11Member
    Monks benefit from physical and mental artefacts, as well as every stat, and have multiple offensive artiest specifically designed to make them better.  If anything,  they are I've of the best classes for arties. If you doubt this, go poke Proficy and ask him to kick your teeth in.
    Borran
  • AmranuAmranu Posts: 714Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Clearly knuckles should be given asp.
  • OmorOmor Posts: 756Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I don't want to partake in the childish forum bitching, that's all.
    I appreciate the 2-3 actual answers I got.
    To repeat what I said already, I understand that artefacts listed under every other category assist Monk, and I never once said they didn't. So when a handful of people say "get other arties", that doesn't answer the question, which was explicitly and only about artefacts listed under offensive artefacts. Many other classes also benefit off other artefact types, but also have weapons. Knuckles count as weapons, but only give 1 out of 3 of the stats of other weapons. That is where my question originated.
    @Atalkez, @Klendathu (kinda), and @Frederich answered. So a thank you to them.
    Omor Ceberek - Targossas

    got gud
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