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Do you essentially need to be a programmer to be good at combat?

SatoSato Member Posts: 8
I used to play Achaea years ago, but I gave it up because of being disappointed with how combat works. I got the strong impression that if you are going to be any good, you need to practically learn a new programming language for the reflexes/scripts. Or just essentially become a programmer. Am I wrong in this? I don't really enjoy programming and didn't want to spend all my time creating complex code just so I wouldn't get killed by a venom... or so that I had any chance of winning. Is this wrong? I know you can buy pre-packaged scripts, but if people are selling them, then the "programmers" that make their own scripts will know all of their weaknesses. I don't know, is this wrong? Is there any way around having to basically learn a programming language to get good at combat?

Furthermore, I ended up choosing a class and sinking a lot lot of lessons in a class that seems to be more combat focused. I have thought about forgetting the class and changing to another class that isn't so combat focused... but then I lose 50% of my lessons. I'm halfway through one skill and transcendent in another, so thats a lot of lessons to lose. I have thought of multi-classing, since I'm level 71, (and I need to be level 80) but then I read that you need to be transcendent in all of your class skills. I see no use for evileye or apostasy if I have no desire for combat.

Does anyone have any advice?

Comments

  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,437 @ - Epic Achaean
    All classes are combat focused. This was designed as a PvP focused game and while a lot of PvE stuff has been added, classes are still primarily designed around fighting other players.

    If you have sharp reflexes and know how to make a trigger, then you can be moderately successful in combat without knowing how to program.


  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lolMember Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    nah man i'm dumb as fuck and i'm not bad.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,697 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You don't need to be "essentially a programmer." I don't really know how to code much, myself.

    You do probably need to be able to make basic aliases and triggers. People tend to pick that up pretty easily, though. It's by no means a requirement to learn a whole programming language.

    Even if you want to use fairly automated offense, which is optional, you can use something someone else made like AK.
    Gurklukke
  • GurklukkeGurklukke Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Honestly there are classes that are more complex and code intensive and there are others you can set up keybinds for. Ultimately it all reflects to ones play style but there are also a lot of available resources already made that can help you.

    IE. limb trackers, affliction highlighting, etc
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,539 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It definitely depends a lot on the class. Depthswalker if a good choice if you want to not feel like you need to be a programmer to compete since the aff tracker already comes built in. 

    That being said, pretty much all classes benefit from knowing how to code. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • SatoSato Member Posts: 8
    I didn't realize all classes were pretty combat focused? I mean what about the classes that focus on making health potions and venoms and such? The support type classes? Sylvan and I forget the others.

    I actually really like Achaea more for the roleplaying aspects... the way you can be a tailor and make clothing, own a shop, be a part of politics or gain ranks in religions... I haven't seen this in other games, other than MUDs like Achaea, that do this.

    I can make basic triggers and aliases. I just seem to remember that it got really complex, and I felt I needed to be a programmer and learn another language practically. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?
  • TaryiusTaryius Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 913 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sato said:
    I didn't realize all classes were pretty combat focused? I mean what about the classes that focus on making health potions and venoms and such? The support type classes? Sylvan and I forget the others.

    I actually really like Achaea more for the roleplaying aspects... the way you can be a tailor and make clothing, own a shop, be a part of politics or gain ranks in religions... I haven't seen this in other games, other than MUDs like Achaea, that do this.

    I can make basic triggers and aliases. I just seem to remember that it got really complex, and I felt I needed to be a programmer and learn another language practically. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?
    All those style of skills were removed from classes, and made available to anyone who wants to learn them. They are called tradeskills now, and include things like weaponsmithing/armoursmithing, transmutation, remedies, toxicology, etc. etc. 

    Armali is correct, 90% of the skills found in your class skills are related to PvP. A smaller number relate to PvE, and every class has a handful of utility-style skills that can do anything from fast travel, to opening portals, giving you defenses, etc. etc.

    An attacks PvE damage also increases as you invest lessons into its skill (Decay for Necromancy, Weaponmastery for Knights, etc). So if you plan on hunting, you still gain benefits from investing lessons.

    Transcending your skills isn't a requirement if you don't ever want to get into combat, though Mhaldor has some soft requirements in mandating defense against raids if you're called upon. You can serve just well enough with your bashing attack in those cases though.
  • PauxPaux Member Posts: 107 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sato said:
    I used to play Achaea years ago,...
    A lot has changed in the past few years. There is server side curing and many classes have been changed to make more clearer lines of play to get a kill. I'm pretty much a non-combatant. My class is pretty affliction intense, but I think if my opponent doesn't kill me quickly I might stumble my way into killing them, (though a stroke of dumb luck or my opponent royally screwing up). 

    And I'm very, very slowly working on something to get better but it's not my focus. 

    Give it a try. You'll probably find it less daunting once you've tinkered with it. 
  • DominiusDominius Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    My coding skills suck, but you always find someone to answer questions. To be good at combat you have to understand combat not code. Coding just helps setup things faster without loops.
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited December 2020
    As a programmer whose primary fun in Achaea comes from programming - I do not think you need any programming to be successful - although I would not consider basic highlighting, gags, substitutions, and aliases to be "programming".  I don't see how you could compete without these basics.

    With that said, some classes require some scripting to reach their maximum potential.  It's been a few years but I remember once counting that artied serpent has to make anywhere from 6 to 10 decisions per every 1.8 second round, without even counting defence.  Even if your brain can keep up, your fingers probably can't.   Affliction tracking is now also becoming common, and without it some classes are significantly unrealistic going against serverside curing, SVO, and the plethora of new passive and active affliction healing.

    If you REALLY just want to fight without getting into code at all, just play monk or runewarden.  Given enough experience (and Artie's) you could probably kill most people using Nexus on your mobile phone - and I'm not being hyperbolic at all saying that.

    Achaea has this funny thing where you can choose between stat-check classes that are easy but powerful and cheaper but almost infinite skill cap classes (imo serpent is the extreme end of this spectrum).  While it's not impossible, you'll generally want scripting more and more the farther you go towards the "cheap but high skill cap" champions, but not so much for the stat based or slow prep classes.

    Then again there's always Sylvan.  The power to complexity ratio here is frankly broken IMO.  If you just want to sit on one class and kill most people with minimal effort, get yourself a Diadem and go sylvan.

    At the same time, coding is fun and rewarding, and is one of the only skills in Achaea that actually carry over into real life.  If you spend thousands of hours mastering lua and basic programming best practices, you'll be halfway to the equivalent of a computer science degree.
    Naelen
  • HikagejuuninHikagejuunin Member Posts: 13
    Yes, unless you are a monk
  • JovoloJovolo Member Posts: 3,339 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 3
    No, but it depends on how you define programming to some extent as Shecks mentioned.

    Simple aliases, highlights, echoes, these should generally be enough especially for group combat.

    There are some classes which will perform better than others with minimal scripting and moderate practise/experience, I think these are:

    Alchemist, Apostate, Blademaster, Runewarden, Infernal, Paladin, Sylvan and Druid.

    Maybe even add Magi, Depthswalker and Psion to that list, but I just don't know enough about them to confirm.
  • LaedhaLaedha Member Posts: 213 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If you want to be really good at combat, you don't have to be a programmer, but you do need to be willing to spend time looking at logs, practicing, and tinkering with your reflexes and modifying stuff other people have given you. But there's no pressure to do that if it's not fun for you. If your goal is to be able to hold your own in raid defense and events that involve PvP, you just need to ask around and you'll find people willing to give you class packages. Most cities have an ooc clan or discord for stuff like that. 

    There are still a ton of options for playing that don't involve PvP.....hunting, crafting, tradeskills, questing, sailing, mining. The class abilities are now very oriented to PvP, but that doesn't mean you have to use all of them. Hell, I never even bothered to trans two of my class skills because I only fight and hunt in dragon, and I'd rather put the lessons into tradeskills. 
    Eryl
  • ErylEryl Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Laedha said:
    If you want to be really good at combat, you don't have to be a programmer, but you do need to be willing to spend time looking at logs, practicing, and tinkering with your reflexes and modifying stuff other people have given you.
          
  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lolMember Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The only classes that I've found are exceedingly difficult to manual are bard, shaman, and jester. 
    NhakraVinzent
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