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Curing: Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures

AlaskarAlaskar Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
Because I've found it somewhat awkward finding this type of information in-game, I figure this is a good place for it. I'm going to just throw out a few questions, and if you guys could point me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. I would also like to gather information on basic class strategies, as I don't really understand a lot of how certain classes function so I'd like this to be a basic reference for what each class is trying to do to achieve its kill sequence.

1. I use SVO. Should I use the server-side curing with SVO? I tried it once, it didn't seem to work very well, so maybe I did something wrong. Does SVO automatically track afflictions and update priorities with server-side? Do I need to do something? Does SVO accurately predict afflictions and whatnot with server-side?

2. Regarding updating priorities through SVO: For SVO users, are you creating scenario-specific aliases or affliction specific aliases, somewhat like the default PVA alias? Or do you use scripting to create custom scenarios that switch for you?

3. Active curing. Basically same question as above: what is the most efficient way to manage using active cures? Scripted use dependent on what class I'm fighting? Or just carefully watching my afflictions and trying to use it then? I feel like, for the sake of efficiency, I should script it through SVO so that I don't end up trying to spam bloodboil when I have something that prevents it, and it also lets me focus on doing important things like think about whether or not I should run away. So, basically, do more people script active cures into their curing, or do they manual them?

4. When should I use restore?

5. When is it appropriate to use Tree tattoo? I seriously don't know anything about curing.

6. Priority advice. Any offered is appreciated.

Individual classes: Mostly, I just want to understand the most basic concepts of what affliction classes are doing to me. I don't have enough time to log in and get spars against various classes and work on reviewing logs and working on improving my system and whatnot to collect this information in game. Some of it I can access through clanhelp and house files, but it's much more convenient to read through it on forums during breaks at work and then when I'm able to log in I can spend my time either working to use the information I learn or doing things I enjoy in game. So any "learn it in-game" answers should not be given in this thread.

I understand the basic concepts for limb prep classes, but classes like Alchemist, Serpent, Apostate, SnB, Bard, Jester, Occultist, Shaman, Sentinel (I think), I have no idea what they're doing to me. Not even sure where to start as far as priorities and whatnot, so any advise is appreciated., even if it's just a basic description of what they do and how to counter it. Or pointing me in the right direction.


  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    SVO, at this point in time, seems to have minimal influence on your serverside priorities, and gets a bit.. glitchy if you have say, Caloric on vkeep and you're facing something that breaks/chills at the same time (serverside cures the break, and svo has already entered APPLY CALORIC, cancelling it out due to salve balance)

    So, if you're using SVO alongside serverside curing, you'll have to put your own priority list up.
    Though with SVO's aff.gained and aff.lost captures, it is relatively easy to script up some things to throw your serverside curing list around based on what combination of afflictions you have.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    1. Svo's server-side handling works reasonably well enough, but you have to set up your server-side independently. It uses its own priority lists, which don't match Svo's and are pretty bad to start off with, and you need to make sure you have the other server-side options (Tree, Clot, HealthAffsAbove, etc) all configured the way you want them; Svo won't do that for you. Edit per Tharvis: It is true that Svo won't automatically shut off its defense upkeep. You may want to make an Svo defense mode that doesn't put up/keep up anything, and then configure server-side defense upkeep to handle that while you're using server-side, so the two aren't fighting each other.

    2. Both. It's good to have some manual priority manipulation options available to you. It's more convenient/efficient to have your system swap things around for you, but that naturally comes with some risks, either mistakes/bugs in the code screwing up your priorities, or if your swap scenarios are sub-optimal, opponents could notice and use that against you.

    3. Both, again. It's good to know when you should use active cures, and be able to use them manually. It's more efficient/convenient to have scripting handle that, but the same thing above applies. Computers are stupid, so if your script isn't perfect, it might fail at a moment where you could have just done it yourself, or it might be abuseable if your scripted scenarios are obvious and/or sub-optimal. If someone writes a script to use Fitness any time they have asthma and don't have herb balance, an opponent who notices this pattern could keep them Fitness'ing constantly, not letting them attack.

    4. Rarely. Preventing Vivisects or getting out of soft rift locks are the only clear-cut scenarios I can think of of the top of my head. It cures two-hander fractures, but you don't want to be doing that while they're in your room with you. Most other times, Restore is a long EQ loss that people can abuse easily if you're using it reflexively.

    5. I think this depends on preference and maybe class. I know some folks that just use their Tree ASAP as a 'free' cure whenever they can. I know some others who save it for specific scenarios. I fall somewhere in the middle. Most of the time I just let it cure whatever in the background, but against certain classes, I'll hang onto Tree balance for the key moments in their setups.

    6. That's a really big question. There's really not many clear-cut cases of "Always cure X before Y." Especially in recent years, with classes getting setups tailored for them via new abilities and such, and with afflictions getting dual purposes, there are a lot of factors that make optimal priorities a fluid thing. Basically, anything you prioritize high lets us bury everything else below it. Curing paralysis over most other things is good most of the time, for example, because you can't fight back much while paralysed, but that lets folks stick lock afflictions or darkshade under it, so you have to recognize when it might be a good time to swap paralysis down for a minute and go defensive. You just kinda have to run risk analysis on every affliction in the list, asking yourself "What is more dangerous to get stuck with, X or Y? If I prio X and let them bury Y, how badly can that go wrong? Having Y might not be so bad against this class, but what about that class?"  Priorities and when to move them around is kinda where all of the art and magic happens, these days. You'd have to ask some more specific questions for me to be of much more help.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 4,869 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1. No idea.

    2. Yes, I have aliases that change my priorities that I can swap mid fight, and depending on how my opponent is fighting.

    3. I only have fitness, but I mostly let SVO take care of that, but sometimes I manually input it if I feel I'm being pressured heavily with afflictions and want to catch up without running/shielding/etc.

    4. When you are going to die if you don't use restore.

    5. This is a hard question. Against Occultist, use it on every balance. Against other classes, it depends on your priorities. There are too many scenarios to event start talking about, but if you're behind on afflictions or about to be locked you should probably be using tree.

    6. Depends on every class you fight against, every situation you're in, etc. For the most part, if you need momentum you want to be curing paralysis first, if you don't want to be locked you want to cure impatience first, etc. Each way of curing you use can be abused differently, so sometimes it's best to swap priorities a lot in fights so they can't get a grip on how you are going to cure.

  • InvictusInvictus Member Posts: 58 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    A lot of these things can be asked in-character besides Svo specific questions. I am sure most of us would be glad to share information on curing theory with you if you come forth and ask.

    As for what curing you -should- use, it's really up to you. I would not shame anyone on what curing system they have be it their own, Omnipave(think people still have that?), Wunderbar, Svo or just stock Serverside. Whatever works for you, is good enough.

  • AlaskarAlaskar Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I don't have as much time as I'd like to ask these things in game, but I get breaks at work where I can check the forums.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,162 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Regarding your last question, think about it from the other perspective. If you were an Apostate, what would you need to learn to be able to effectively kill opponents? Affliction stacking? That's a start. So what's the point of affliction stacking? It's to prevent somebody from curing an affliction you want them to have, by loading them with two or more afflictions that share the same cure as the affliction you want to stick. Like, hitting somebody with paralysis/clumsiness, then paralysis/sensitivityx2, so they now have two kelp afflictions (clumsiness & sensitivity) provided they prioritize paralysis above those two, which they most likely will, and then hitting them with asthma. At this point, assuming you used paralysis/asthma to afflict, they now have paralysis/asthma/sensitivity/clumsiness. That's a 100% chance to cure paralysis if they eat bloodroot, and a 33% chance to cure asthma if they eat kelp. They have to make awkward decisions here in order to cure best against you. If you were an Apostate though, where would you go from there in order to lock and what could an opponent do to you that would really ruin your day? 

    ETA: Just to give a useful, actual example. A typical Apostate lock with Puncture (which delivers venoms slightly slower than herb balance) is to go for a kelp stack, and then paralysis/impatience, daegger puncture gecko, paralysis/anorexia. However, this relies on you eating bloodroot above all other afflictions. If you ate goldenseal there, you could now focus off the anorexia. So they'd have to replace the paralysis/anorexia combo with impatience/anorexia. This now means you can use tree and active curing abilities. Think of the logic behind your curing. Write it out and explain it.

    If I have asthma and paralysis, I will cure paralysis (I will cure paralysis because it means I can continue to attack or run, and if I can attack or run I can actively hinder their ability to afflict me while asthma on its own is relatively useless). Unfortunately going to have to stop here because I need to get back to work, but I may post more later.

    Use those same thought exercises when approaching the other classes you have trouble with. It will also help narrow the focus of your questions and leave you less overwhelmed with a variety of information. Go one class at a time if you prefer. There are threads for each of them on these forums, and you will get answers.
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