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This time on insane classleads

MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
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Submitted by: (redacted)         Status      : Submitted
Skill       : Crystalism     Ability     : Retardation
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Problem:
While critically important in solo combat, magi retardation is far too powerful when used with a 
group, against either an individual or in group vs. group fights.  Almost every time retardation is 
used in a raid, for example, that group is almost always entirely wiped out.  This is too powerful 
for a single ability that requires nothing but 2 seconds of balance, that doesn't even require the 
presence of the user.  The normal argument against changes to retardation is that it is balanced, as 
it is a "double edged-sword".  However, as anyone who has experience with raids is well aware of, it 
is never actually used in a situation that imposes risk on the user or their group.  It's use in 
group scenarios almost always involves some form of room hindrance (frozen ground, piety, gravehands,
 walls) to block a group in, while those in the retardation vibe are attacked from outside of it, 
with area and projectile attacks.  Nothing else in the game even comes close to being able to 
destroy an entire group of people without even being present.
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Solution #1:
Those in the room with a retardation vibe should not be able to be hit by projectile attacks by 
anyone but the owner of the vibe itself.  This leaves solo magi combat completely unaffected, but 
solves the problem quite well.
Solution #2:
Make magi retardation affect a single target, instead of everyone in the room.  This also does not 
affect solo magi combat, but fixes the problem.  Syntax: EMBED RETARDATION FOR <player>
Solution #3:
Implement a 2 second tic when retardation is in a room.  Every two seconds, everyone in the room who 
has the speed defense will have their speed defense stripped, akin to Aeon.  On the next tic, 
without speed, retardation would begin functioning as normal.  This solution removes the "surprise 
attack" retardation tactic consisting of leaving retardation/room hindrance in people's walking 
routes, and using a bow/throwing to sleep-lock them, while out of combat.   This also gives people a 
small window of escape before retardation lands, if their speed defense is up.  It would also allow 
a 2 second burst of not being in retardation if they re-def speed inside of retardation (which 
wouldn't actually be practicle, but would be possible).  This -is- a mild "nerf" to retardation, 
however, and should be paired with some form of upgrade to Magi that doesn't involve leaning solely 
on retardation to win either solo or group fights.







Solutions two and three are terrible, solution one is just plain stupid, because it removes half of the reason retardation's a double-edged sword. 
StrataAepas

Comments

  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Gotta endorse this just for fun.
    Strata
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
    I can see solution 1 being really lulzy. So I can stop the Naga snipe squad by embedding retardation... hmm...
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    For once I have to agree with you, @Mithridates. (Actually I don't think I've ever had a disagreement with you but still...)
    That lead (and the others written by the same person ) could have been written much better. There's so much passive agressive overtone in them that even the ones that do seem like decent ideas will likely be rejected.

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    Submitted by: (Redacted)         Status      : Submitted
    Skill       : Hypnosis       Ability     : Hypnotise
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    Problem:
    Most serpents use very, very little of the hypnosis skillset, as most of it is useless in almost every conceivable situation.  After playing serpent for over 10 years, I can say with confidence that 
    many of the afflictions have no use whatsoever, while many of the others are only used very, very rarely.  Many serpents only use four abilities in the entire skillset (impatience, confusion, disrupt, 
    and action).  Another problem with hypnosis is that many of the would-be useful afflictions do not have a third-person message, allowing the serpent to see when their suggestion lands (while the 
    target DOES).  Combined with the slow speed and random nature of hypnosis, invisible afflictions are almost entirely useless to a class that requires near-perfect timing to defeat anyone with either 
    high-end curing system, life-vision, or passive healing (or all three).
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    Solution #1:
    Complete overhaul of the Hypnosis skillset.  The concept of the randomly timed afflictions predates curing systems entirely, and is no longer actually reliable enough for use in any level of combat.
    Solution #2:
    Two-part adjustment to how hypnosis works.  1) Add third-person affliction messages to all hypnosis afflictions -OR- remove the randomness from hypnosis entirely.  It is not so powerful that it needs 
    to be made unreliable.  In combination with either of these options, lower the limit of suggestions to 6 to counter the perceived "upgrade" to hypnosis.
    Solution #3:
    Add a new defense for serpents (or add functionality to an existing Vision ability) to allow a serpent to see when their hypnosis afflictions land, for an endurance drain.

    Third person messages were added to some of the crucial suggestions last round of classleads. Removing the seemingly useless afflictions, simply because YOU don't see a use for them, is a serious
    nerf to hypnosis. Those ash afflictions contribute greatly to slow/sneak locking, and their effects also contribute to overall entropy that stalls curing systems. Speaking of entropy: Removing the randomness
    and putting strict timeframes on when the afflictions fire allows curing systems to proactively handle the most common hypnosis chains. Shrugging's PRNG was a bad thing, this one is not.


    image
    Trey
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,084 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Paging scrublord @Hasar, you're doing it wrong.
               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
  • HasarHasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    Topic name has never been so relevant.

    Melodie
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    I can see solution 1 being really lulzy. So I can stop the Naga snipe squad by embedding retardation... hmm...
    Naga don't move unless you're in melee with them. So it won't stop them - just slow them down. They'll still kill you. It would just take longer.
    image
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
    Strata said:
    I can see solution 1 being really lulzy. So I can stop the Naga snipe squad by embedding retardation... hmm...
    Naga don't move unless you're in melee with them. So it won't stop them - just slow them down. They'll still kill you. It would just take longer.
    I can just imagine it now


    Sitting one south of Mdor gates, invulnerable to ranged attacks because I'm in retardation.

    Plz implement, Tecton. 
    Shunsui
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    why redact the name.
    NAME AND SHAME NAME AND SHAME
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean
    I think everyone here knows who it is.....


  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's Shecks. Who else would it be?

    The wavecall and oceansense (lol) classleads are hilariously bad, and consist of "its too hard, so make it easier for me" boiled into classlead form. Wavecall is annoying, but it doesn't seem to stop the smarter seafarers (specifically the ones who hunt), since they manage to get plenty of kills regardless. A more valid suggestion would be to limit wavecall to 12-13 tiles instead of 15, so that a fully adjacent 15 tile wavecall doesn't instantly remove a person from the map, and gives the pursuer a window to see what direction their prey is going. Adding in ocean sensing is just being lazy - if you want to know where someone is sailing, use scouts. Seafaring is a group endeavor, for the most part. Turning into a solo gank n' shank is just going to put more people off it entirely.
    Mannimar
This discussion has been closed.