Badge of Credentials

Silvarien

I think a lot of people are upset that they only have one House open to them. I think many people would love to be part of another House, but due to the restrictions they cannot. I think one of the bigger reasons for this is because the Garden and the people in charge don't want people within a House for frivolous reasons. Maybe I am wrong, but that's always been my impression.

So, I was hoping to suggest a new item that allows the bearer to apply for consideration to the House of their choice despite them not being of a class the House normally accepts. The item, Badge of Credentials will allow one to be CONSIDERED, it should not guarantee entry. I was further hoping to suggest that this item not be sold in either Merentesh's shops or the Shop of Wonders. It should be earned, like the Marque of Unquestioned Seaworthiness. Except, it should take waaaaaaaay more effort to earn than the Marque.

If this idea is approved, each House should determine the process by which the Badge can be achieved. It should take the petitioner a very long time to gather the materials (100+ hours) and the person should be made to travel all over Sapience and all over the off-plane locations as well. The gathering process should demonstrate to the House that the person is "House material." For example, a Knightly House would require one to demonstrate honor and prowess in battle, and the House of Ty Beirdd would require one to demonstrate a strong interest in the arts. This would effectively prove to the House that despite the person not being  the "right" class, they are nevertheless House material because of their mindset and interests.

I understand some classes might be flat-out inappropriate for a particular House, (Jesters in a Knightly House, for example,) but something like a blademaster... maybe that'll work. I imagine the City within which the House is found would want its say in such a decision as well, which is understanable.

Thank you for reading my idea

Antidas

If you want to join a certain house, change your class to one that the house accepts. I dont want to see runewardens in the Naga just because they proved they could be sneaky, or magi in the maldaathi because they proved they were honorable, etc etc.

Sylvance

Yep. This would, in my humble opinion, completely negate the philosophy and the purpose of what a House is.

Katia

Houses have chosen to limit their classes, this is usually roleplay based, and they spent a long time picking which classes and why.

If people want to join a particular House, then they should pick one of the classes allowed. 

If Houses wanted people with those classes in, they would let them. 

Silvarien

@Antidas: try to think of everybody, not just your own opinion in your own situation.

Changing class requires, if I recall, 433 cr. If you decide you don't like the class, that's another 433 cr to change back. That's not even talking about class-related tradeins, (weapon is no longer suitable, now you need a SoA where before you had two swords, etc.) Not every person in this game has hundreds of dollars to blow on a whim. Also, there are people who really love being their class very much, but their mentality is better suited to a House that they cannot be part of. For example, I love writing, which is done most in Ty Beirdd, but in Cyrene I can only be part of the Mojushai, for which I am completely unsuited. I am so unsuited for  Mojushai that my God was chuckling at how "Mojushai" I was while I was attempting to give a required lesson. I don't see how classchanging to Bard at all affects my writing abilities, the two seem completely unrelated. Yet, Bard and Jester are all Ty Beirdd accepts.

It's one thing to join a House on a whim and then quit it on a whim, but for some of us, it's a serious thing and I think the restrictions are too draconian.

@Sylvance: I am not sure how making a usually-unsuitable candidate prove themselves for like 100 hours, going everywhere to prove themselves, just for a chance ot be considered, and these rare exceptions STILL ruin the philosophy and purpose of a particular House. The person is doing all this work precisely BECAUSE the House needs to see that they are House material. And since the individual House decides how this process unfolds for their House, I don''t personally see any philosophy or purpose being negated.

@Katia: No, the Houses did NOT choose this, at least not according to what I was told by a lot of people. The choice was made by the Garden, the Houses had to pick the classes they would thereafter allow, the class one House picked could not also be picked by another House, and a lot of people, including myself, were deeply saddened by this decision. Many people, also, have been "grandfathered" in to a House they'd normally not be accepted to, and to my knowledge these members are no less worthy parts of their Houses than the people of the appropriate class. For example, Ariettie of the Wardens is neither Runewarden or Paladin, she's led the House for a very long time and only recently stepped down. Is she ruining the House by being in it? Or did she ruin the House while leading it? Most people familiar with the situation would say "no."

Honestly, a person running around 100 hours with a bunch of House-related tasks, and then gets in, is probably experiencing House-related RP better than most, and will value the House more than a random 18 year old who joined via "being the right class."

Jacen

Something we've talked about in OOC clans is that maybe each House could have the monopoly on their original class (Monk for BL, Magi for CM, Shaman for SW, Serpents for SL ) and the remaining classes could choose whatever House they wished. There should probably be some kind of further restrictions, maybe don't allow classes that aren't of the original class set to be inducted by Certimene/Trial of Rebirth, but go through an interview process.

EX. A serpent couldn't ever join the Black Lotus. Blademasters, Runewardens, and Monks can join the BL straight out of Rebirth, or by Certimene if they're young enough. Every other class, except for Magi, Shaman, Serpent, or classes not accepted by the city (forestals) could petition to join the Black Lotus by interview.

Classes may not seem to jive with a particular House philosophy, but there are people that can certainly make it work. Look at Sobriquet.

Sylvance

Silvarien said:

@Antidas: try to think of everybody, not just your own opinion in your own situation.

Changing class requires, if I recall, 433 cr. If you decide you don't like the class, that's another 433 cr to change back. That's not even talking about class-related tradeins, (weapon is no longer suitable, now you need a SoA where before you had two swords, etc.) Not every person in this game has hundreds of dollars to blow on a whim. Also, there are people who really love being their class very much, but their mentality is better suited to a House that they cannot be part of. For example, I love writing, which is done most in Ty Beirdd, but in Cyrene I can only be part of the Mojushai, for which I am completely unsuited. I am so unsuited for  Mojushai that my God was chuckling at how "Mojushai" I was while I was attempting to give a required lesson. I don't see how classchanging to Bard at all affects my writing abilities, the two seem completely unrelated. Yet, Bard and Jester are all Ty Beirdd accepts.

Then join Scarlatti's Order or the AFA.  The House is there to teach people how to be Bardds, not bards. And Bardds are performing artists who have chosen the calling of a performing artist, i.e. Jesters and Bards. Not whatever class you're referring to.  ETA: Yes, I agree that it's quirky that a poor RL writer can still be a great Bard, but that's one of the quirks of roleplaying games. This is one of the reasons I'd like to see an in-game system of such things, but that isn't going to happen.  But you can still be widely renowned in the realms as a bard without being a Bardd. Period.

Silvarien said:

@Sylvance: I am not sure how making a usually-unsuitable candidate prove themselves for like 100 hours, going everywhere to prove themselves, just for a chance ot be considered, and these rare exceptions STILL ruin the philosophy and purpose of a particular House. The person is doing all this work precisely BECAUSE the House needs to see that they are House material. And since the individual House decides how this process unfolds for their House, I don''t personally see any philosophy or purpose being negated.

I think the conceit is right there in your argument. 'Rare exceptions'? I suspect it would actually turn into a free-for-all with people not having to make the choice between class/House.   I agree, that some of the divvying up of classes has been decidedly iffy, but the principle of specialisation remains a good one.  Maldaathi Shaman? No thanks. Classes are a 'job' and a calling, not just a set of skills, and it makes perfect sense for some of these callings to be simply incompatible with certain Houses.

Tanaar

Being able to buy your way into a House is a terrible, terrible idea.

That said, a little more flexibility from the Garden on allowing exceptions would be appreciated. The reason the "one class to a House per city" rule was implemented a few years ago is that some Houses (including the Sentaari, despite all my efforts to keep it monk-only) decided to throw open their doors and accept as many classes as possible, including those that directly competed with allied Houses (we had priests, paladins, and serpents for a while).

Now that the model has been firmly established that Houses are not to simply throw their doors open for whatever reason, I think it would be appropriate for the House Leader to petition their Patrons for single exceptions. If, for example, someone feels that a monastic House suits them very strongly, but the House their class is based on elementalism, they should be able to apply to the monastic House. They'd have to pass muster with the HL first, demonstrating that their RP is suited for the House, and then get approval from the Patron.

Here in the U.S. it's often found that the most patriotic and knowledgeable about American history are naturalized citizens, whereas people born here are often ignorant and unappreciative. Same deal with classes and Houses. Just because someone is a Bard doesn't mean they want to be shoehorned into the culture of the Dawnstriders. If they can prove to the Empyreal Assembly HL and its Patron that their song is best used proselytizing or whatever, more power to them. They'll be a better EA member and contribute more to its RP than 90% of the priests that come off of Loom.

Silvarien

Sylvance said:

Silvarien said:

@Antidas: try to think of everybody, not just your own opinion in your own situation.

Changing class requires, if I recall, 433 cr. If you decide you don't like the class, that's another 433 cr to change back. That's not even talking about class-related tradeins, (weapon is no longer suitable, now you need a SoA where before you had two swords, etc.) Not every person in this game has hundreds of dollars to blow on a whim. Also, there are people who really love being their class very much, but their mentality is better suited to a House that they cannot be part of. For example, I love writing, which is done most in Ty Beirdd, but in Cyrene I can only be part of the Mojushai, for which I am completely unsuited. I am so unsuited for  Mojushai that my God was chuckling at how "Mojushai" I was while I was attempting to give a required lesson. I don't see how classchanging to Bard at all affects my writing abilities, the two seem completely unrelated. Yet, Bard and Jester are all Ty Beirdd accepts.

Then join Scarlatti's Order or the AFA.  The House is there to teach people how to be Bardds, not bards. And Bardds are performing artists who have chosen the calling of a performing artist, i.e. Jesters and Bards. Not whatever class you're referring to.  ETA: Yes, I agree that it's quirky that a poor RL writer can still be a great Bard, but that's one of the quirks of roleplaying games. This is one of the reasons I'd like to see an in-game system of such things, but that isn't going to happen.  But you can still be widely renowned in the realms as a bard without being a Bardd. Period.

Silvarien said:

@Sylvance: I am not sure how making a usually-unsuitable candidate prove themselves for like 100 hours, going everywhere to prove themselves, just for a chance ot be considered, and these rare exceptions STILL ruin the philosophy and purpose of a particular House. The person is doing all this work precisely BECAUSE the House needs to see that they are House material. And since the individual House decides how this process unfolds for their House, I don''t personally see any philosophy or purpose being negated.

I think the conceit is right there in your argument. 'Rare exceptions'? I suspect it would actually turn into a free-for-all with people not having to make the choice between class/House.   I agree, that some of the divvying up of classes has been decidedly iffy, but the principle of specialisation remains a good one.  Maldaathi Shaman? No thanks. Classes are a 'job' and a calling, not just a set of skills, and it makes perfect sense for some of these callings to be simply incompatible with certain Houses.

This post made me facepalm -- hard.

YES, people that would spend a hundred hours to get in a House they'd normally not be allowed to get into would be "rare exceptions." Most people sign-up for easy benefits, when actual work -- especially of this caliber -- comes in, they flake out. My so-called "conceit" is modeled on the ORDERS, which already do something like I am proposing, by making the prospectives prove themselves in the pre-Orders before they are admitted as full Order members. Can you name one Order that does NOT do this? There's a lot of people wanting to be Phaesteans who join the pre-Order and then either find they are unwilling to put in the work required, and they quit, or the Order finds them unsuitable and they are expelled from the pre-Order. I find it mind-boggling that while this system is suitable for the Orders, it becomes magically unsuitable if converted to work for Houses to give those Houses more flexibility.

AFA is not a House. A person who wants to be in a House will not settle for being in a clan, especially when the House and the clan are so similar. As for Lord Scarlatti, I deeply respect Him, but I chose my allegiance to Lord Phaestus before Lord Scarlatti came back. I don't know about you, but I don't change friends and allies like socks the moment it becomes convenient.

Also, lady I was HR5 in Ty Beirdd for a long time, I know how the House is run, I know what it means to be Beirdd, I did my tierwork, I earned my full Bardd status. I can log into my predecessor character right now and catch up on things, though honestly, given how you've talked to me now and in the past, I am very rapidly losing any desire to talk to you at all. I was there while Sancero was Provost. Sancero has been logging on the last few days, I had a great time catching up with him. In the future, please don't talk down to people like drooling idiots, why, you might be accused of being "conceited" yourself. When I was in Beirdd, the class restrictions were NOT there. So, who are you to tell people that your view of Beirdd is "better" than the view of Beirdd people BEFORE you had? Egads, methinks that's a little conceited!

Let's just spare each other any further conversations with each other. Or, more precisely, you can choose to talk at me if you want, and I will choose not to answer.

@Tanaar: I know buying your way into a House is a bad idea. That's why I think this proposed process should be unrelated to money in its entirety, and should be kept to people doing work with time and effort. Other than that, I agree with you completely.

Sylvance

This was not an appropriate contribution to the Golden Dais.

Silvarien

This was not an appropriate contribution to the Golden Dais.

Nellaundra

If this goes through, then everyone and their mother is going to clamor at each and every single person that gets let in who isn't of the standard class.  It's just going to be an absolute can of worms that's better off not opened.

Babel

This is the Golden Dais. A primary requirement for participation in this forum is an ability to be constructive and avoid petty insults. Those who cannot meet this standard will simply not be welcome to contribute further.

Sylvance

Sorry.

Kakotas

Hmm this might fall under the concept of Boons though? Couldn't it be worked as something on that level? Or perhaps you get a something or another on level 100 or such and make this part of that? If the goal is to get dragons more involved that may just be the trick. Just a simple thought not sure if it would work. I know in certain house cultures it wouldn't work at all.

Jonathin

Tanaar said:

That said, a little more flexibility from the Garden on allowing exceptions would be appreciated. The reason the "one class to a House per city" rule was implemented a few years ago is that some Houses (including the Sentaari, despite all my efforts to keep it monk-only) decided to throw open their doors and accept as many classes as possible, including those that directly competed with allied Houses (we had priests, paladins, and serpents for a while).

Yeah, there was at least one House in every city that became a "catch-all". If you wanted to play as a runewarden, but didn't want to RP the class or only wanted to RP it on your schedule, join the catch-all House. It diluted a lot of the individuality over the years between when Houses opened their doors and when the doors were closed. Some Houses managed to keep their focus (I.e. Occultists), but only because they didn't allow every class twice over. 

Allowing classes that are not accepted through some hard coded game mechanic would allow pretty much everyone to be allowed into whatever House they want into and completely negate the -good- change a couple years back, regardless of the difficulty in achieving one of these badges. It was a good change. Many Houses have started to gain a new sense of focus and individuality that may actually put them on the map as a "Great House" rather than just a ragtag group that doesn't actually serve any purpose.

Not only that, depending on how the badges were given out, it has the huge potential to be abused. If it's handed out by the Houselord, most would either: ignore them and pretend that they don't exist because he doesn't want to lose members or he'll hand them out to all of his friends before giving one to himself and quitting. If they're given out at a certain HR, you'll get a huge number of people gaining rank and then quitting the first time something doesn't go their way. ETA: Or you will see exactly 0 favours being handed out because the HL doesn't want to lose members.

I agree that some leeway on a case-by-case basis, handled directly by admin would be nice. However, if it became a public thing, the admin would get a flood of issues or messages asking if they can be inducted, slowing progress on anything that they might be working on at the time. 

Also, getting into Orders is easy if you pay enough attention. Not comparable to getting into a House. Unfortunately, being HR5 in any House is a very poor indicator to knowing how a House is actually run. If you were only HR5, you have no idea how intense and demanding running  House can be without the added stress of dealing with applications, which is why they're typically delegated to another branch of the House's government. For something like this, however, it would have to be handled by the HL because he would have to speak with the Patron as well.

Tl;dr: doing something like the OP would create too many problems and would dilute the individuality of Houses, which are finally starting to show through.

Kakotas

Tend to agree here. There would have to be a case by case basis probably handled by a core leader of some kind. It would have to be a ridiculously complicated thing and there would have to be major RP concerns addressed in each case which is why I tended to think of it within the Boon category of well you served and did so well it's a reward. But that makes divine involved which is complicated and would require Divine and HL interaction rather than a divine just inducting it would end up being a 2 or 3 step process.

I agree that some leeway on a case-by-case basis, handled directly by admin would be nice. However, if it became a public thing, the admin would get a flood of issues or messages asking if they can be inducted, slowing progress on anything that they might be working on at the time. 

Silvarien

Alright, it won't work.

Scrap it, close it, done.

I appreciate the input of those of you who described the idea as bad in a constructive manner. I just don't appreciate being called stuff, but in my defense I don't think I am alone in that.

Mathonwy

Houses in their current state tend to work best when they combine some of the ideals that came from the guild-era and creatively apply them to a small handful of other, compatible classes. Exceptions tend to undermine the vision of the Houses as it pertains to its mandate over those classes within each individual City and erode the capabilities of the Houses to do anything new, interesting, or unusual with those classes.

The 'one class, one House, one City' rule came from the old leaders' forums ages ago as something of a compromise between the 'guilds only' mentality and the 'any class in any House for any reason' mentality, and it's actually worked pretty well so far. Houses should be cooperating with one another and with their Cities, after all, not competing for members among themselves-- and this idea, while I applaud it for striving to encourage individual RP on something as typically reactionary as class-based RP is, would probably cause a lot of those problems to resurface in some form or another.

Trevize

I think Houses are fine as they are. This is coming from someone whose character doesn't have a House, wouldn't mind one, but doesn't have one that would fit him and accept his class both.

Aepas

Crown merchants should be able to accept all classes that can sell goods. Other than that, I think house structure is okay.

Mannimar

Honestly, I don't like the OP at all. A House creates these restrictions on themselves for a reason, and pulling away from that is a horrible idea, imo. 

However, that said, I would like to see the class/house restrictions changed to something along the lines of an in-depth petition to the house patron outlining how the class fits your House lore, and roleplay. Say for example, @Jacen began a petition for Alchemist in his house, their patron would just go "lolno, never ask something like that again". However, if they petitioned for infernals their petition would likely address the Mhaldorian restrictions, expectations of the class, how the meet the expectations of the House, ect.

long story short... no. 

Kyrra

In the case of using Ariettie and the Wardens as an example, she was a Runewarden for a very, very, very long time. If I remember rightly, she was Knighted when guilds were still around.

I don't really like exceptions and people playing favourites. When cities made the decision to keep alchemists over forestals, all the forestals should have been thrown out because that is the decision that was made. Now, if someone is a member if a city ( I am naturally excluding Eleusis from this for obvious reasons ) and wants to change to a forestal class, they have to leave, yet people that were "grandfathered" in get to stay.

Houses are houses. Unless you're a serpent needing a milking room, there is really no reason to ever join one. They are not guilds you depend upon for class anymore. All they add is a dimension to the game that allows for character development.

When you have Houses that accept so many different types of classes, I don't understand the appeal. I also don't understand why some classes like Jester are accepted into a House that is focused on things like assassination and espionage. Without certain skills and abilities, where is the common ground beyond declaring that you totally believe in what the place stands for?

Tl;dr - I think there ought to be some realism to class choices, and decisions ought to be enforced for everyone.

Averi

From what I understand, this happened once when Guilds became Houses. Having all the classes in every house didn't work for any house except the Ty Beirdd. There was a petition to make us an exception but it was denied. And then we made the AFA. That's how I understood it but older housemates would be able to tell this story way better than I. 

Imo, most houses just don't have distinct/strong enough viewpoints and themes to be able to accept all the classes without losing their individuality. It'd suck if achaea turned into like 41890783468 combat houses + 2 art houses and the merchants. 

Also, I've always seen classes as a character's profession. That being said, if you wanted to dedicate your life to poems and stories instead of Good and religious philosophy, it would make more sense to dedicate your life to being a bard than a priest. Just like irl, if you wanted to be a famous journalist for <insert journal name here> you'd probably not dedicate 10 years of your life to getting a PhD in Chemical Engineering. 

Thus I echo the aforementioned sentiment. If you want to join a house that doesn't accept your class, change classes.

Wattsee

Achaea has grown and evolved a great deal over the years, and with each change, there are people who are each side of the fence.

I wasn't around during the time of Guilds being stripped of their Class-control, and Houses being established. I have heard stories, some of which make me cringe. Having player control over other players seems like a fantastic idea, and could enforce some sort of role-play, or even behavioral control. This will never, ever be the case, no matter how much we want it to be. Even in the real world, were we can be killed for our crimes (and don't have Thoth watching our backs) we still have individuals who cannot be contained by our social laws; both at the lowest ends and the highest ends of the social and political scales.

So the change was made to remove that particular power from the playerbase and autoclass was established. Some loved it, some hated it, but the fact is, it happened. Classes became meaningful to the players who played them instead of a role to be played in x, y, and z fashion. Guilds were changed at their core to Houses. Instead of controlling a class, they were meant to be social groupings. Players who wanted a way to connect with other players who wanted to do the same things together.

The majority of Guilds made no changes when Houses were introduced, other than using H instead of G to type in commands. Their structures stayed the same, they mythos and purpose stayed the same, in many cases, even their long-time leadership stayed exactly the same. There were exceptions, most notably in my mind are the Merchants and Bardds. They basically thought, well if Classes aren't important features to these organizations anymore (as opposed to Guilds) then we should reorganize into something new and different, and see what we can do with this new system we've been given. By downplaying the importance of Class and increasing the amount of attention given to role-play within the House's new mythos, these Houses that actually -did- something with the House system and flourished. They were consistently at the top of HOUSE INFLUENCE and offered something much different than the well-established Evil Knight House - Neutral Knight House - Good Knight House which were copied within their various Cities and had their own styles. The game changed, and they changed with it. Because they did, they flourished, while others that didn't change slowly lost members and interest as the years passed.

Then the whining came to a head. While I had my own fair share of riled-up, pissed-off posts, I think enough time has passed to let emotions and the dust settle. Class was again changed to be the most defining aspect of the game. If you were a Jester, you needed to act in x, y, and z fashion. If you were a Priest you must do a, b, and c when an agent of Evil arrives. And because of the incredible amounts of "My House has no members!", Classes were very suddenly restricted within the game. Now, if I wanted to start up a new Magi, I would be extremely limited as to where I could go, or remain rogue (which sucks hard as a Class so dependent on House resources). I would want to play a character that knows the Elements like the back of his hand, and quite literally, changes the physical laws of the world to suit his needs. Before this change, I could pick and choose which Houses suited how I wanted to play. I could choose between combat-oriented Houses, those which promoted the study of Lore and Ritual, the money makers, etc. Now, as a brand new Magi, I would have the choice of four Houses, and if none really suited me... I guess playing a Magi just isn't going to happen in my future. Going from nearly 20 choices to 4 didn't make the game any better or more immersive, but it gave the struggling Houses the boost in numbers they needed to feel good about themselves. No longer can someone make a Runewarden not interested in becoming a Knight but only wishing to Forge, or a Serpent interested in making an honest living selling their potent venoms instead of stealing from others. No longer can a Magi dream of creating plays with the grandest illusions he can craft, nor can a Blademaster consider sheathing his sword and taking up the quill to write sonnet after sonnet.

If you want to be a Bardd, you must live your life with certain skills. You will never know the wonder of controlling the Elements with your fingertips, or master the physical and metal aspects of yourself with Tekura and Telepathy. It's not that people who play those Classes don't -want- to join those houses (as the past experience has shown with flourishing numbers and consistently sky-high HOUSE INFLUENCE) it's that they're not -allowed- to. It's not that they can't be played with the slightest effort by any player wanting to merge the mechanics of their Class and the mythos of the House, it's that other people don't want them to play that way, and whined loud enough for it to be a hard-coded limit.

I find it a shame that Achaea chose that direction, because life is absolutely full things which contradict such limitations. We do have people who spend 10 years of their life (not one hundreds of years long either) getting an education into a very specialized field, but then go out and start a Nerdcore hip-hop band and tour the country during their vacations because they love both things. We do have medical doctors who love to paint, we do have street brawlers who spend time in libraries.

Maybe I'm just being a bit too idealistic. Wanting to have my cake and eat it to. Wanting to chose how I go about my day to day activities, via Class, and what I spend my life working towards in a House of my choice. As a Magi in Hashan, I can't even follow the Black Lotus and dedicate my life to protecting Hashan, or join the mysterious rituals of the Spirit Walkers. I get to play a Merchant (not that I don't love being one) because that's the only option available to me.

tl;dr The whole situation of being told specifically how to play a Class sucks.

Sancero

@Wattsee I could kiss you full on the mouth.

By which I mean you articulated precisely how I feel about the situation. The class limitation, which, from my perspective (as one who was not involved in the forum community at the time), came very suddenly after the release af Blademasters, was one of the most harmful things to happen to Ty Beirdd. Ultimately it was what drove me away from Achaea.

I appreciate the intention of the OP, but I think a better solution would be to allow Ty Beirdd an exception from the limitation. O:-)

As Wattsee said, we were one of the few that flourished in the Age of Houses, and it was all rather ham-handedly taken away.

Amunet

So...someone explain to me what is wrong with roleplaying within the parameters set by the game's canon, please. 

Rispok

Sancero said:

Stuff

I think a better solution would be to allow Ty Beirdd and the merchants an exception from the limitation. O:-) As Wattsee said, we were one of the few that flourished in the Age of Houses, and it was all rather ham-handedly taken away.

Perhaps there's another house as well, but it's not coming to mind.

Wattsee

I personally don't see anything wrong with role-playing within the parameters set by the game's canon. I enjoy playing a Magi who knows the ins and outs of the Elements, but would likely stab himself in the eye if he ever tried to handle a blade.

The point I was trying to make was that the game has changed, drastically, over the course of several years. Restricting players to follow other player's wills/whims or lose their Class (and often huge amounts of credit value) didn't work. So the game expanded, and asked players to play how they wished. Some things flourished during that time, some things didn't. Those that didn't complained, and as with anything on the Internet, those who complain the loudest and most incessantly, often gain the most administrative attention. So instead of taking a pro-active personal chose of making their Houses more attractive to other players who were free to choose where they played, they simply whined that other players weren't playing with them, in their desired way, so they were doing it wrong. With a quick, broad-stroke change, the administration finally shut them up, which I can fully understand.

My point is, that having been allowed a massive amount of freedom, and having spent a huge amount of time (some as a Houseleader) building up an exciting, expansive, and attractive-to-players House, only to have it extremely restricted on a mechanics standpoint to appease some very adamant whiners is a choice I don't agree with.

Sancero

@Rispok I'll concede that, for sure. The Merchants had a neat philosophy, as far as I can remember. I don't think they were a mere catch-all House.

I confess I only alted around in very minor ways and in very few Houses back when I was active. That said, my impression then and now is that most Houses are very happy with the admin-imposed focus on their identity, while a few were quite damaged by the reversion to Guilds-plus.

Sure, we don't want to encourage special snowflake syndrome, but how many Houses can legitimately claim a desire/need for an exception? And what would be the harm in allowing it?

Amunet said:

So...someone explain to me what is wrong with roleplaying within the parameters set by the game's canon, please. 

As far as I'm concerned, the game's canon is that the original Bards' guild wanted their training and services to be available to everyone, regardless of their affiliations. The Age of Houses allowed Ty Beirdd to really capitalize on that mission by adopting the philosophy that artistic ability is independent of class (although we were still limited by our ties with Cyrene).

Then we had to backpedal on all that with no way to rationalize it from an IC perspective.

Sorry if I'm forum-RPing. Since I was so ingrained in one House for so long, it's nearly impossible for me to separate my feelings as a player/character on this issue!

Lisbethae

Amunet said:

So...someone explain to me what is wrong with roleplaying within the parameters set by the game's canon, please. 

I sometimes find it difficult to understand why some decision that was made long before anyone who plays (or any player for that matter) should be adhered to like it's the theory of gravity or something.

Sentient beings change the world around them. Not always for the better, true. But just because New York was bought for glass beads doesn't mean it can only be the glass bead making capitol of the world. In fact, left to their own devices, sentient beings are turning the city of New York into a Nature's Paradise. Amazing how that works.