HTML5 client, version 2

Sarapis

I've finished a design of v2.0 of the HTML5 client (which I'm going to give a proper name to when we release it), and wanted you guys to have a chance to comment. Keep the following in mind:

1. This is mainly aimed at genuine newbies, but we'd like it to be good enough that it's very usable, even in PK. We harbor no illusions of equaling mudlet + svo for now, but our client is also usable on phones (barely, granted), tablets, etc. We're dedicated to making it a highly functional client, though we'll be doing all client-server interaction via open protocols so that Mudlet and other clients can continue to take advantage of the new features we add into the client. All the scripting features are in the settings menu, which isn't visible here, and hasn't been redesigned yet.

2. This is a mock-up, not a final theme/skin. You'll be able to change out the background, and configure the windows in whatever way you want.

3. It works like a modern browser does. Drag a tab off to create a new window. Drag it onto another window's tab area and it'll join into that window's tab list.

Jonathin

I dunno if that comm tab up at the top is meant to take over the main screen, but I wouldn't like it if it blocked out major things happening like being attacked for the sake of having a redundant comm tab. 

ETA: while selected, obviously.

ETA2: I just realized that you could drag it over to another window. Carry on!

Also: Regarding the avatar- would that be my forum profile pic? The one I uploaded to the website? Or some other configurable setting?

Nellaundra

...if I wasn't all configured for Mudlet and I'd have to create a new system, I'd honestly just switch to that cause of how pretty it is and how much functionality it has.

Shirszae

Well, I really do like the looks of it.  At the very least, I'll probably use it when not on my computer

Drauka

A rich HTML 5 client is a ton of work to get right. Great job

Sarapis

Drauka said:

A rich HTML 5 client is a ton of work to get right. Great job

This is just a mock-up. You should definitely save the congratulations until/if we manage to get this design working smoothly in practice.

Trevize

Pretty, so far.

Tekk

I love this. A  feature rich client that will be accessible anywhere that has Chrome. 

Will it handle connecting to the telnet ports any differently? 

Drauka

Sarapis said:

Drauka said:

A rich HTML 5 client is a ton of work to get right. Great job

This is just a mock-up. You should definitely save the congratulations until/if we manage to get this design working smoothly in practice.

Oh oops! I re-read your post. Still, it's an awesome effort.

Froh

Nice.  Four comments:

1) Map section should have a prominent "Walk to" dropdown list or similar feature for available landmarks.

2) Marquee is distracting- A way to hide the scrolling newsbar would be nice.

3) A tab for help would be nice (I see the button but the spec says that it links to newbie channel).  A tab with a nicely formatted, static, and scrollable help file display would be great.

4) I use a client splitter bar a lot (to scroll back and read recent content carefully without hiding the current output).  A conventional splitter bar might be confusing to newbies even to understand that it's there and what it does so maybe there's another way to provide this feature via a different-looking mechanism.

 

 

Sarapis

Tekk said:

I love this. A  feature rich client that will be accessible anywhere that has Chrome. 

Will it handle connecting to the telnet ports any differently? 

No, straight-up telnet connection.

Sarapis

Froh said:

Nice.  Four comments:

1) Map section should have a prominent "Walk to" dropdown list or similar feature for available landmarks.

2) Marquee is distracting- A way to hide the scrolling newsbar would be nice.

3) A tab for help would be nice (I see the button but the spec says that it links to newbie channel).  A tab with a nicely formatted, static, and scrollable help file display would be great.

4) I use a client splitter bar a lot (to scroll back and read recent content carefully without hiding the current output).  A conventional splitter bar might be confusing to newbies even to understand that it's there and what it does so maybe there's another way to provide this feature via a different-looking mechani

Great suggestions (though all the windows are closable, aside from main output, including marquee).

Sarapis

Oops I am incorrect. It does use websockets and in the future likely secure ones. 

Aaric

Sarapis said:

Oops I am incorrect. It does use websockets and in the future likely secure ones. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just a wrapper around the telnet interface though, right? Pretty slick.

I also really like the integrated targeting and hotkeys.  

Tekk

Sarapis said:

Oops I am incorrect. It does use websockets and in the future likely secure ones. 

I'm not sure I understand that. Does this mean the local machine will not have to have the telnet client unlocked? And the sys admin will not have to open up telnet ports? I'm thinking this is where Nexus was superior. I've played from internet cafe's in Europe. It made Achaea always accessible. 

Aaric

Tekk said:

Sarapis said:

Oops I am incorrect. It does use websockets and in the future likely secure ones. 

I'm not sure I understand that. Does this mean the local machine will not have to have the telnet client unlocked? And the sys admin will not have to open up telnet ports? I'm thinking this is where Nexus was superior. I've played from internet cafe's in Europe. It made Achaea always accessible. 

WebSockets is basically a way for your browser to directly open a connection to the server and stream data back and forth. So basically a telnet connection except through your browser.

The current web client also uses WebSockets (I checked), so if that one works for you this new one probably will too.

Drauka

Relevant: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/websockets/basics/

Cooper

I have a question - why have you spent so much time and effort over the years of making java after java after java after flash after flash after html after html client, when most (I say most when I don't truly know the numbers, but I really doubt a significant portion of your important player base uses these clients)?

Or in a more nice way, do the number of people using these clients Achaea has made over the years truly worth it, especially considering free ones such as the old zmud, mush, mudlet, etc?

Veldrin

I like the current html client, if for nothing else, I can use it on my tablet, course I can't edit triggers and such, but I can load the ones from the server and go with it from there.

Kyrra

For people coming across a website for the first time, immediately being able to log in and do stuff without needing third party clients is important.

Having a functional and aesthetically pleasing web-based client can allow the first time players a better experience and may help them stay around on top of their in game experiences.

If someone decides to stick around, they may look to third party clients to improve their game play, and that is where zmud, cmud, mudlet, mushclient and a variety of others come into play.

Tecton

Cooper said:

I have a question - why have you spent so much time and effort over the years of making java after java after java after flash after flash after html after html client, when most (I say most when I don't truly know the numbers, but I really doubt a significant portion of your important player base uses these clients)?

Or in a more nice way, do the number of people using these clients Achaea has made over the years truly worth it, especially considering free ones such as the old zmud, mush, mudlet, etc?

You have to remember that the clients are primarily aimed at people who are completely new to MUDs. If someone who has never played a MUD before had to go and download a client, then try to figure out how to input the address and port, then connect to the game etc., they're infinitely more likely to just dismiss it as too much work. Our clients load up instantly and get people into the game with no fussing around, while providing an interface that is tailored to easing people into playing this style of game.

Synbios

Laughed at the achievements section. So Sinope, how's that Oprah show coming along?

Besides that, the mock-up looks so damn pretty. 

Cromm

HTML5 guy here.

Thanks for all the feedback! 

Just gonna jump in quickly on the WebSockets question (for anyone interested). If you're not into socket nerdery, feel free to tune out.

The client cannot connect directly to a basic socket server -- it has to go through an intermediary (for the moment) that handles the WebSocket magic.

What this means is that the browser has to be capable of connecting to the WebSocket port, not the telnet port (typically 23). As mentioned, we are adding WebSocket Secure compatibility which should help with folks behind firewalls even further.

Finally, for those who might wonder about potential multi-playing concerns, we have provisions in place server side to forward real IPs, not the proxy servers', to the game, so there's virtually no difference between connecting via the WebSocket proxy and connecting directly via a telnet client.

/codegeek

Keep the suggestions (and any questions you might have) coming!

- Cromm

Cromm

Froh said:

3) A tab for help would be nice (I see the button but the spec says that it links to newbie channel).  A tab with a nicely formatted, static, and scrollable help file display would be great.

Just a quick note -- we actually just launched a nifty HELP file popup system (toggleable in Settings) that @Amunet suggested -- makes keeping a HELP scroll in front of you while doing something else SUPER convenient.

Dakuan

Very glad you're upgrading game client. Few suggestions:

1. Add directions wheel so you could click "N", "S" buttons instead of typing or using numlock. It will be much easier to play on tablets. Could make it optional too.

2. Remove diagnose skill. Make all buffs and debuffs on character visible on screen right away. This diagnose thing is just annoying, nothing else.

3. Instead of character portrait add enemy hp bar, so you could easier track combat dynamics.

4. Let us bind any aliases on hotkeys (in case its not there).

5. Make clicking room on minimap command character walk there.

6. Make clicking on object in left window interactive command. For example if its corpse - command is "take everything" from this corpse. If its NPC, command is "greet" him.

7. Please, no scrolling bullshit on top. It will only distract from reading. Or at least make it optional.

8. Clicking on your hp/mana frame shows your full stats.

9. Add "Friends" tab so you could easily see which of your friends online. Clicking on friends name inputs "Talk to <friend name>"

10. Add "Map" tab with all available maps connected (you can choose which one to see).

11. Make it so you could separate all chat channels and combat channel from main window. So there was only room desctiption, NPCs talk and dynamic world messages in main. 

12. Start adding sounds. Ambient sounds, combat sounds, walking sounds, even NPC greeting sounds. They make HUGE difference and help alot with immersion. Check Alter Aeon if need an example of MUD with sound effects.

Erasariel

Wow, this is impressive!

@Dakuan: I'll have to disagree - most of that extra functionality you suggested is too excessive, even to the point that it's nearly becoming MMOish. We're better off without that. Friends and Map functionality is also unnecessary. Sounds and alarms are, IMO, almost counterproductive. They could be an optionally available extension at best. I do agree that the scrolling ticker and achievements tab aren't necessary and the client can do without them.

Sarapis

Dakuan said:

Very glad you're upgrading game client. Few suggestions:

1. Add directions wheel so you could click "N", "S" buttons instead of typing or using numlock. It will be much easier to play on tablets. Could make it optional too.

2. Remove diagnose skill. Make all buffs and debuffs on character visible on screen right away. This diagnose thing is just annoying, nothing else.

3. Instead of character portrait add enemy hp bar, so you could easier track combat dynamics.

4. Let us bind any aliases on hotkeys (in case its not there).

5. Make clicking room on minimap command character walk there.

6. Make clicking on object in left window interactive command. For example if its corpse - command is "take everything" from this corpse. If its NPC, command is "greet" him.

7. Please, no scrolling bullshit on top. It will only distract from reading. Or at least make it optional.

8. Clicking on your hp/mana frame shows your full stats.

9. Add "Friends" tab so you could easily see which of your friends online. Clicking on friends name inputs "Talk to <friend name>"

10. Add "Map" tab with all available maps connected (you can choose which one to see).

11. Make it so you could separate all chat channels and combat channel from main window. So there was only room desctiption, NPCs talk and dynamic world messages in main. 

12. Start adding sounds. Ambient sounds, combat sounds, walking sounds, even NPC greeting sounds. They make HUGE difference and help alot with immersion. Check Alter Aeon if need an example of MUD with sound effects.

Some of this is already on the list, but others aren't and are good suggestions. Thanks!

Dakuan

Erasariel said:

@Dakuan: I'll have to disagree - most of that extra functionality you suggested is too excessive, even to the point that it's nearly becoming MMOish. We're better off without that. Friends and Map functionality is also unnecessary. Sounds and alarms are, IMO, almost counterproductive. They could be an optionally available extension at best. I do agree that the scrolling ticker and achievements tab aren't necessary and the client can do without them.

I know, you guys who played MUDs for 15 years, need only telnet and good to go. But for new players "MMOish" is a good thing, since UI in MMORPGs evolved much better, and MUDs could learn alot from them.

Trevize

Dakuan said:

Erasariel said:

@Dakuan: I'll have to disagree - most of that extra functionality you suggested is too excessive, even to the point that it's nearly becoming MMOish. We're better off without that. Friends and Map functionality is also unnecessary. Sounds and alarms are, IMO, almost counterproductive. They could be an optionally available extension at best. I do agree that the scrolling ticker and achievements tab aren't necessary and the client can do without them.

I know, you guys who played MUDs for 15 years, need only telnet and good to go. But for new players "MMOish" is a good thing, since UI in MMORPGs developed much better, and MUDs could learn alot from them.

Back in my day, we had to carry packets by HAND, uphill BOTH WAYS, in the SNOW. And if we dropped the packet, it was lost! Damn snow.

Cardan

Trevize said:

Dakuan said:

Erasariel said:

@Dakuan: I'll have to disagree - most of that extra functionality you suggested is too excessive, even to the point that it's nearly becoming MMOish. We're better off without that. Friends and Map functionality is also unnecessary. Sounds and alarms are, IMO, almost counterproductive. They could be an optionally available extension at best. I do agree that the scrolling ticker and achievements tab aren't necessary and the client can do without them.

I know, you guys who played MUDs for 15 years, need only telnet and good to go. But for new players "MMOish" is a good thing, since UI in MMORPGs developed much better, and MUDs could learn alot from them.

Back in my day, we had to carry packets by HAND, uphill BOTH WAYS, in the SNOW. And if we dropped the packet, it was lost! Damn snow.

We used to have an early networking protocol in my house called 'SneakerNet' that required you to copy everything onto a 5.25 inch floppy and walk it upstairs to the other computer.

Drauka

Cardan said:

Trevize said:

Dakuan said:

Erasariel said:

@Dakuan: I'll have to disagree - most of that extra functionality you suggested is too excessive, even to the point that it's nearly becoming MMOish. We're better off without that. Friends and Map functionality is also unnecessary. Sounds and alarms are, IMO, almost counterproductive. They could be an optionally available extension at best. I do agree that the scrolling ticker and achievements tab aren't necessary and the client can do without them.

I know, you guys who played MUDs for 15 years, need only telnet and good to go. But for new players "MMOish" is a good thing, since UI in MMORPGs developed much better, and MUDs could learn alot from them.

Back in my day, we had to carry packets by HAND, uphill BOTH WAYS, in the SNOW. And if we dropped the packet, it was lost! Damn snow.

We used to have an early networking protocol in my house called 'SneakerNet' that required you to copy everything onto a 5.25 inch floppy and walk it upstairs to the other computer.

Relevant: