Which Class?

Iocun

Yue said:

a serpent has more mobility -- fewer passive defenses

One might argue that shrugging and scales are some of the most powerful passive defences there are.

Garao

Serpents get impatience Serpent has greater variation and can instantly choose between like 4 different strategies depending on how their opponent cures. Shaman is just like, oh you eat goldenseal on straight curses and run away/hinder unprepped tzantza? Oh you cure confusion? Oh you know how to stop salve lock? 

Shaman is easy as -- to read, serpent less so. 

Paladin is still better. A good Paladin is a beast, there just haven't been any for a while. Voy

Mishgul

Yes i did. I do not believe that your opinion about serpent is correct having played as one and against many

Iocun

Garao said:

- oh you eat goldenseal on straight curses

- run away/hinder unprepped tzantza?

- Oh you cure confusion?

- Oh you know how to stop salve lock? 

Well, there you have four kills against any given person in a row! (More if they don't know how to fix their mistakes after dying once, which applies to like 80% of people.)

So kill everyone four times, then switch class.

I agree that shamans are easy to survive, but they do have the unknown-class-bonus of nobody knowing how to fight them because there are so few around and thus manage to kill people the same way alchemists do.

Garao

Why do you do these things.  (

Iocun

Do what? Quote you?

Garao

You argue that white is black in front of a blind person

Iocun

Are you calling me a liar?

Garao

Stop shouting at me (

Yue

@Mishgul: you seem to be arguing that learning Shaman combat is easier or rather that Serpent combat is more complicated which I would tend to agree with. I think that makes Shaman a more suitable candidate for the OP, given his criteria.

@Iocun: I agree that shrugging and scales are powerful defenses. I also agree that switching classes after you become effective with one might be a good strategy. How about Shaman then Serpent?

Garao said:

Serpent has greater variation and if the newbie player masters curing, develops an intuitive interface to all their skills, understands how other curing systems work, and gets a level 2 dirk can instantly choose between like 4 different strategies depending on how their opponent cures. 

@Garao: ftfy

Garao

Yue said:

Garao said:

Serpent has greater variation if the newbie player TRIES TO LEAR COMBAT, TRIES TO LEAR COMBAT, TRIES TO LEARN COMBAT, and gets a level 2 dirk can instantly choose between like 4 different strategies depending on how their opponent cures. 

@Garao: ftfy

Don't fix things for me when you're wrong >( Serpent has greater variation than Shaman, though Shaman is easier than Serpent. In either case, he should go Paladin.

Holy crap that broke.

Caladbolg

Shaman is ALOT easier than serpent. Shaman also doesn't need arties Has Slow lock as an option Can mask cursses and has runelore for more tankyness and radio. However Serpent is more fun and has evade.


Still Paladin can't get locked, Peity High damage, Demons, banishment because f occies. 4 strength from fury/inspiration get runes that makes 5. Although from my understanding disembowel is extremely hard to get off. Deliver, That thing that lets you travel to people. Damnation is hard to get off (At least in theory never even tried it) and now that races and herb balance has changed I don't think you have to have a 223 rapier to stack herbs. (but don't quote me on that) And when you get into raid combat Bows, Falcon. also cleanse passively strips your targets defenses. along with the falcon. The ability to fight mounted once you get more into the class makes Monks cry.. All around awesomeness.

Mishgul

Serpent does not need arties

Caladbolg

Mishgul said:

Serpent does not need arties

Well then im doing it wrong cause my 2.25 second dstabs aint killin nobody..Unless they are asleep

Garao

That doesn't mean it doesn't need arties. Disembowel is easy, too

Yue

Garao said:

Don't fix things for me when you're wrong >( Serpent has greater variation than Shaman, though Shaman is easier than Serpent. In either case, he should go Paladin.

once there was a purple alien wearing a hat & I am not wrong

@mishgul @garao - ok, you guys are right. someone new to combat should definitely start out as a serpent b/c they can kill so many people with their cleverly crafted illusions and their super powerful darkbow(wont work) and by evading out and bashing their opponent with their scales  Hadouken.

Caladbolg

Garao said:

That doesn't mean it doesn't need arties. Disembowel is easy, too

Ment more a level 1-2 torso break dsl. Since just about everyones running around with a reverse limb counter these days or seems like they are.

Garao

@Yue - No Yue said Shaman has greater variation than Serpent, we said that it doesn't. Shaman is easier than Serpent, but that doesn't mean anything if the high end is meh, it's not like he can't learn how to fight as a serpent? It's redundant anyway, because Paladin is the best choice.

Tvistor

The more I play serpent, the more viable it appears to be completely unartied (but much of that effectiveness definitely falls away against fitness classes). I think paladin is the class for the OP at any rate.

Yue

@Garao: Shaman has greater variation given smaller investment in lessons. Yes. I still support that statement. It being easier does mean something. If something is easier to learn in the beginning, it might increase the odds of actually reaching the high end. So saying, if it's overly complicated to succeed starting out, the point where the high end capability of the class really shines might never be reached. 

Having started out serpent myself I suggested something with a lower ceiling because I think it would offer a more enjoyable/less painful learning experience in the beginning. When you have outgrown a class, move on to something with greater playing potential.

I'm suggesting this strategy purely based on two factors: it's the opposite of what I did, so if going back again, I would try something different, and secondly, it is probably a reasonably good way to ease into combat. I enjoy painful learning experiences. So I picked the class that HELP CLASSLIST states is "possibly the trickiest class to play."

I'm sure serpent is viable without arties. Assuming you have the patience of a brick.

Caladbolg

Yue said:

@Garao: Shaman has greater variation given smaller investment in lessons. Yes. I still support that statement. It being easier does mean something. If something is easier to learn in the beginning, it might increase the odds of actually reaching the high end. So saying, if it's overly complicated to succeed starting out, the point where the high end capability of the class really shines might never be reached. 

Having started out serpent myself I suggested something with a lower ceiling because I think it would offer a more enjoyable/less painful learning experience in the beginning. When you have outgrown a class, move on to something with greater playing potential.

I'm suggesting this strategy purely based on two factors: it's the opposite of what I did, so if going back again, I would try something different, and secondly, it is probably a reasonably good way to ease into combat. I enjoy painful learning experiences. So I picked the class that HELP CLASSLIST states is "possibly the trickiest class to play."

I'm sure serpent is viable without arties. Assuming you have the patience of a brick.

tbh I made my alt a serpent mainly because of the old quote "If you can play serpent you can play any affliction class" and in that sense I came out with "If you can play serpent you can figure out wtf every other class is doing"

Yue

tl;dr when you get bored of paly switch to serpent or shaman

Mishgul

Serpent is easier at a lower level than you guys make it out to be. If you really want to be good 1 v 1 you will find it is 99% attitude, and i think serpent is the most fun AND enlightening class to start out as.

Shaman is boring in contrast and gets very one dimensional as you get better at combat because its easy to see what a shaman is aiming for.

Serpent will blossom a lot more as you get better. It will take a lot longer before you reach the status of jaded.

Mishgul

Paladin justs sad when you start fighting people above level 80, like every other knight class.

Yue

Mishgul said:

i think serpent is the most fun AND enlightening class to start out as

QFT. I completely agree but dat devil's advocate mayn

also guys, impatience was a trap and you fell for it!!!

Xer

I think Serpent and Apostate would probably be my favourites classes, and in some ways, wished I started out as them instead of a Shaman. There's definitely a much stiffer wall for Shaman to break into a top-tier level because once you get used to them... you're not scared of them anymore >.>

Serpent is almost certainly without a doubt more enlightening on the actual combat mechanics of how to kill people. As a Shaman, you will either kill people because they have no clue how to deal with Blight, or kill people with a trick that's easily preventable once you see it coming. With Serpents, you can kill people even if they see the lock/relapse kill coming, if they screw up and you take advantage of it, or you MAKE them screw up by taking advantage of various mechanics, and mindsets about curing. Shaman has to do the same at some point to progress past a certain point, but without the ability to actually kill anyone appropriately defensive. 

I do think that Knight classes are still interesting though, and that there's a number of things to be explored there - mostly limb break stuff that I haven't had to deal with because I have Mangle >.>

Vayne

Who even plays a Shaman anymore?

Xer

Me.

(But that's about it)

Vayne

Xer said:

Me.

(But that's about it)

Sad, they are such an interesting class with tons of RP potential.

Caladbolg

Vayne said:

Xer said:

Me.

(But that's about it)

Sad, they are such an interesting class with tons of RP potential.

There's a few shamans around but I don't think most of them do combat. Affliction combat seems kinda dead combat wise (as in people playing affliction classes)