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"There is no room for another ship in that harbour"

OgnogOgnog
in The Golden Dais of Creation
It's really frustrating when you sail across perilous seas only to be turned away from an island because the harbour is full. Sure, you can just lower the ladder and swim to shore, but then you learn "You find yourself unable to disembark so close to a harbour". So you sail away from the harbour, but you have to get a really long way away before you can disembark. For a small island it's impossible. What a pickle!

My opinion? - Do away with the minimum distance from the harbour all together. This change at the very least. Surely the advantages of safe harbour are reason enough to use them.
Even better - take away the limit on harbour capacity. Why not?

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Comments

  • RispokRispok
    This is rarely the problem you make it out to be.

    A small island, such as Clockwork, can be boarded from ropes if you go to the other side. I agree it's annoying to have SLC and Aalen always full, since they're convenient stops, but I have very rarely (especially since I bitched one time and got a harbour ninja changed) had an issue with finding some place to dock. Certainly if you're willing to abandon your ship and go over the ropes, this isn't the crippling issue (in any instance I have seen yet) you make it out to be.
  • TanaarTanaar
    It's a rare problem, but when it happens, it's incredibly annoying, and a bit of a break in verisimilitude. Even if the docks are full, you should be able to moor just offshore and row in on a rowboat.

    Low priority, but a tweak would be lovely.
  • RispokRispok
    Tanaar said:
    It's a rare problem, but when it happens, it's incredibly annoying, and a bit of a break in verisimilitude. Even if the docks are full, you should be able to moor just offshore and row in on a rowboat.

    Low priority, but a tweak would be lovely.
    Allow it to work for ship trade, with the chance the rowboat of gold is deemed taxable by the Crown Merchants
  • KinilanKinilan
    Spyglass.
  • XithXith
    And not only that, but with the volume of active ships, some of those convenient ports (with lower docking fees) are often full, which if I suddenly have to quit and leave and don't have time to sail my ship to safety... really sucks.

    Either their capacity should be audited, their docking fees raised, or the drydock cutoff made shorter.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    edited February 2013
    I've been iffy on removing the outdated mechanic simply because I don't think that the danger is that high- however, the danger is there and it should be taken into consideration. My first reaction is to say "limit it to 3 rooms out", which would serve absolutely no purpose- so that's out. 

    I am in favour of removing the minimum distance from a harbour to disembark by ladders.

    ETA: In regards to harbour capacity, I think that we should simply be allowed to pay an inflated docking price (at man-made harbours) that increases with each ship over capacity. So the first ship to dock over capacity at Shastaan would have to pay 1000 instead of 500. The second ship would have to pay 2000, third- 4000, fifth 8000, and so on The time for drydock could also be reduced for ships that put the harbour over capacity by 50% too and damage rate could go up as well due to improper mooring or something. It's not ideal to pay an increased docking fee and have your ship be damaged faster, but it'd be nice in a pinch.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • RispokRispok
    edited February 2013
    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }

    As an aside, Thraasi and Tasur'ke should have no real size limitation. It's an eventuality that nobody enjoys; read- threads akin to this pop up every few months.

  • OgnogOgnog
    Thankyou all for your comments. @Sylvance, would you care to elaborate on why you disagree?

    Can anyone think of any reason why harbours should not take an unlimited number of ships? Removing the harbour size limitation would be the best solution, I believe.

  • RispokRispok

    Ognog said:
    Thankyou all for your comments. @Sylvance, would you care to elaborate on why you disagree?

    Can anyone think of any reason why harbours should not take an unlimited number of ships? Removing the harbour size limitation would be the best solution, I believe.
    Because real harbours have size limits. I can see setting them to be outrageously higher than will be needed, though, like making Thraasi and Tasur 250 each.
  • OgnogOgnog
    edited February 2013
    In real life you can't really hold the number of items in your inventory, and you can't really carry the corpse of an elephant, but that never stopped us! :D

    Try sipping a potion at the same time as eating a herb at the same time as swinging two swords in real life!

  • LyrLyr
    Sailing to Ilryean and not having a place to dock is really frustrating, especially when you had to log out ten minutes ago.
  • OgnogOgnog
    Lyr said:
    Sailing to Ilryean and not having a place to dock is really frustrating, especially when you had to log out ten minutes ago.
    It was actually Ilyrean Isle being full that prompted my post.

  • OgnogOgnog
    Hey. Just double dock. New York taxis can get away with it!

  • RinzaiRinzai
    There is definite frustration when you are going to dock at Sea Lion (5 total) and it's full, so you scoot over to Aalen (10) and it's full... I get the realize and harbour size and all of that, but given that sailing is time consuming it is a real shame to have to waste even more time just to find a place to harbour.
  • JulesJules
    Iocun said:
    New command:

    [Sails Furled] [Hull] [Crew End: 99%] [Wind: NE@2 kts] [Crs/Spd: W@0]ship dock west
    There is no room for another ship in that harbour.
    [Sails Furled] [Hull] [Crew End: 99%] [Wind: NE@2 kts] [Crs/Spd: W@0]ship squeeze into harbour
    You say , "Don't worry, it'll fit, just squeeze in". Your crew shrugs collectively and starts manoeuvering the ship into the overcrowded harbour. You scrape along several other ships, pushing them slightly out of the way and damaging their (and your) hull, but eventually manage to push through to a docking position and lower your anchor.
    [Sails Furled] [Hull] [Crew End: 99%] [Wind: NE@2 kts] [Crs/Spd: W@0]
    You have sunk the docked windcutter "The Drunk Mermaid".
    [Sails Furled] [Hull] [Crew End: 99%] [Wind: NE@2 kts] [Crs/Spd: W@0]
    You have sunk the docked seastrider "The Resilient".
    [Sails Furled] [Hull] [Crew End: 99%] [Wind: NE@2 kts] [Crs/Spd: W@0]
    People are *staring*, STARING at me right now!  
  • RispokRispok
    bump
  • TanaarTanaar
    Seriously, the crowding issues on the southern Sefyric are a huge issue. The worst part is that a good bulk of the ships clogging those ports are rarely, if ever, used.

    @Sarapis @Tecton maybe you could suggest seaside towns as a theme the building projects of whatever new celani you have
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    @Iocun: I wasn't exactly thinking like that. Kind of like double-parking, except that you're not blocking anybody in.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • JulesJules
    No, gdi, Iocun's idea is going on The List.  He's a Legendary Achaean.  And besides, that guy with the Seastrider probably had it coming.  I, for one, can't wait to passive-aggressively squeeze my windcutter in between two war galleys so I can get the insurance money when their gangplanks scratch the paint around my porthole.  But yes please, not being able to dock at the desired destination after hours of sailing is really unfun.  Finally, "that's what she said" is long, long overdue for this thread. 
  • TvistorTvistor
    That's what she said.
  • OgnogOgnog
    Iocun's post on squeezing another ship into a full harbour was hilarious, and I loved it, but I was really hoping for a serious response from the developers on this issue. I don't really see the merits of the argument that real world harbours are limited in size therefore Achaean harbours should be limited also, since Achaean's can carry a hundred corpses, while juggling 30 vials and storing thousands of items in a magical rift.

    Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe the developers have a really good reason for limiting the size of harbours? I'd love to hear from the developers on this. To me, it seems like a simple problem with an easy solution.

  • SylvanceSylvance
    Simple solution?

    [spoiler]

    Delete ships.

    [/spoiler]

    Just sayin' :(
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • CardanCardan The Garden
    If I had to guess (which is all I can do at 4 am), I'd have to say that I think harbour limits were introduced not only to put a sliver of realism into ships but also to open up avenues of RP around "Dude, get that leaking tub of yours out of my berthing spot" but I don't think there was the antipation of just how many ships there would be.
  • AnaidianaAnaidiana
    @Cardan

    Soooooo.....may we please have more docking spots, particularly at Thraasi and Tasur'ke because of the origination of trade deals and so on?

    (And Aalen. Never enough places to dock at the Aalen...)

    image
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Simply upping the capacity of any particular harbour is a band-aid fix. Certainly the amount of ships being commissioned has leveled off a bit from previous years, although I could be wrong. I believe that more ships would just sail out of their normal hiding spots to pick the more convenient one and just sit there, again filling the harbour to capacity and requiring yet another expansion. I'd rather have a solution that takes a bit more time, but is more lasting as well.

    Being able to double-park a ship at a higher cost of gold, faster rate of hull damage, and shortened time before drydock would help in a pinch if you've been sailing for hours and find that your harbour is full, costing you another fifteen minutes to get to the nearest harbour (assuming you aren't an hour away from the next one) that you'd much rather be spending offline or doing something else. There have been plenty of times where I sailed to Ilyrean and back only to find that Riparium was full, forcing me to sail down to Shastaan to dock. It's not that far to sail, but when you're tired of it and want a break, it seems like an eternity. The ship-combat implications could possibly be mitigated by an increased delay in docking time due to trying to make room.

    I don't know how to deal with the number of ships putting harbours to capacity though.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • OgnogOgnog
    I'm more concerned about islands where there is no alternate place to dock.

    Getting rid of the hard limit altogether should be easy enough and I doubt it would have adverse consequences.

    If we're concerned about certain harbours being overly popular, then having the docking fee increase and decrease based on the harbour's popularity might be a good way to ensure a more even distribution of harbour use for mainland ports. The relationship between docking fee and how full the harbour is could even be exponential in nature.

  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    I can't really think of a good reason against removing the capacity limits.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • KyrraKyrra Australia
    Personally, I'd want to see houseboats towed out of harbours and left in a river. Implement expensive penalty rates for parking ships that don't have any use other than taking up space for years at a time. It really doesn't seem fair that the people who actually use ships for their intended purpose are getting penalised by full harbours.

    Or better yet, ships not sailed within X amount of years get decommissioned for scrap material.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

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