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New Class and Knight/Chivalry Changes

UtianimaUtianima Norway and AustriaMember Posts: 326 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
edited October 4 in North of Thera

Big changes to all knight classes was just released. Thoughts?


t;dr: New Unnamable class for chaos/Ashtan. New paladin skill named Excision. Paladin/Infernals/Runewarden have had Chivalry renamed to Valour/Malignity/Discipline respectively.


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Announce News Post #5384

Chivalry

Written by: Makarios, the Meticulous

Date: Monday, October 4th, 2021

Addressed to: Everyone


Let me start off by saying this project is very large in scope. This is stage one, and we do plan on taking input on what comes next.


It has been our belief for a long time that knighthood in Achaea as an institution has suffered a great deal over the years. Between the changes from guilds to houses, the transition from old houses to new, the introduction of multiclass and many other factors, it has mostly survived in its current form due to the dedication of certain players and the clan-based organisations they run. So when you read this next part, please don't panic:


We have just removed chivalry as a skill from knights and replaced it with a different skill for each of the (former) knight classes (same functionality, divergent theme). We believe that chivalry as a class-based skill is actually fairly problematic to these knighthood organisations, since they have no real way to enforce their standards on members of said classes. Each of these new skills has their own loyal (Runewardens retain falcons).


Runewarden's new skill is DISCIPLINE, and Infernal's is MALIGNITY.


We are working closely with some of Achaea's more notable knights to ensure that the age of chivalry is well supported going forward.


Penned by My hand on the 13th of Aeguary, in the year 870 AF.


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Announce News Post #5385

Paladins and Unnamables

Written by: Makarios, the Meticulous

Date: Monday, October 4th, 2021

Addressed to: Everyone


We're pleased to announce the release of the long rumoured Paladin update, as well as the new Unnamable class.


With the move away from knights as a class towards a more general warrior archetype, its now the longterm goal for each faction to have their own incarnation of a warrior style class since we like these for org identity. Historically knighthood hasn't really fit some organisations as a concept, but since this is changing now this is something you can expect!


The new paladin skill is EXCISION, and the new skill for Unnamables is ANATHEMA. These are the Targossas and Ashtan factional knights respectively.


Penned by My hand on the 13th of Aeguary, in the year 870 AF.


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Announce News Post #5386

Falcons

Written by: Makarios, the Meticulous

Date: Monday, October 4th, 2021

Addressed to: Everyone


For those paladins and infernals concerned that their collared falcons may have been deleted in the cutover, there is no need for concern. There are a few things to be aware of here:


- No falcons have been deleted.


- You will still have access to your falcon (collared or otherwise) if you have Runewarden in a different class slot (only when in Runewarden, for the pedantic among you).


- We'll give people a couple of days to decide if they want to pick up Runewarden to preserve said falcons. After that we will run a cleanup where inaccessible falcons will be purged and any collars refunded to their owners.


Penned by My hand on the 14th of Aeguary, in the year 870 AF.


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Changes News Post #97

Updates

Written by: The Achaean Coder Team

Date: Monday, October 4th, 2021

Addressed to: Everyone



It is Monday, the 4th of October, and the following changes have been implemented:


- Chivalry for Runewardens has been renamed to Discipline.


- Chivalry for Infernals has been replaced with Malignity.


- Chivalry for Paladins has been replaced with Valour.


- The Unnamable weaponmastery variant has been released!


- The Paladin class has lost Devotion and gained Excision!


- HELP CLASS ITEM CUSTOMISATION has been updated to reflect new class loyals and remove the now defunct 1 free patron customisation information.


- The Eschaton has been moved.


Published by my decree on the 13th of Aeguary, in the year 870 AF.


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Comments

  • IazIaz Member Posts: 2
    edited October 4

    Makes me want to try a knight class 😮

    Utianima
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Any reason why Anathema skills are hidden in the AB files? I thought we had moved past hiding that kind of information.

  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Same reason certain Pariah skills are hidden. Because you have to unlock them.

  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 4

    Because gating what the heck a class can do as a baseline behind "Well. Just make an alt." is great game design.


    I'm all for keeping certain things secret (See: Some ritual tablets).. but an entire class skill that, likely, will have a huge involvement isn't something I really think should be gated behind make an alt.


    Everyone was able to see the Excision skills, and the infernal update.


    Not sure why Chaos Knight gets to be any different.


    Edit: This may seem like coming off really bitchy, but figuring out wtf a class can do (skill wise) shouldn't boil down to "Just make an alt to see the skills they can do on average." The only other class that even remotely comes close to this is weaponmastery (Different specs AB just bugs out), sublimation (the different paths are locked, but it still shows the main change to humours), and pariah tablets (Which in and of themselves are rare and spoopy).

    AiwendilPrythe
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 4

    You could try interacting with the people who have the class. Believe it or not, that is an option! I know you guys love the "find out in-game" response.


    This reminds me of WoW forums sometimes.

  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 4

    Edit: Meh

  • EuriceEurice Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I don't think we should be balancing or learning combat by "find out in game" responses. OOC obfuscation does not make a good game.


    Like a sane person, I messaged Makarios about Anathema AB files not being visible and he mentioned he's considering how to tackle the issue, so it evidently isn't entirely intentional.

  • AdrikAdrik Member Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Well at least someone here has some good sense.


    I didn't want to spend the time arguing about how throwing a wall of "You don't get to know" and having to ask your enemy IC, how they kill you.. but yeah.


    Thanks @Eurice !

    Aiwendil
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Wow your class is so op!

    checks notes

    Hidden ABs! Nerf class!

  • AndrayasAndrayas Member Posts: 14

    I haven't looked through everything, but I was extremely disappointed when I saw they copied and pasted Earth Lord's Juggernaut to Paladin's Rush. I feel like juggernaut can be a -very- impactful skill in group fights, and was one of the few things unique to Earth Lord - which is accessible to everyone. It was one of 2-3 things Earth Lord's could actually bring to a fight, and now it's one of 50 things in the Paladin's arsenal, and of course Paladin is faction locked. Very, very discouraged by this change.

  • DraqoomDraqoom Member Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    But you can still get Earth Lord, and Earth Lord still has Juggernaut

    image

  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent


    Unshackled power fills your every limb as you reach for that which is around and yet Beyond, the might with which to rend Creation's very laws, and take of it into yourself. Take it for your own. Your flesh melts and warps, your bones crack and reshape, and with a triumphant howl you at last turn your indelible wrath upon your victim as your countless limbs descend upon him in a frenzy of ruin made real, leaving you a mere passenger in your own mind as the abomination you are takes its fill.

    You have slain Lerin.


    An unearthly howl tears through the cosmos as Lerin is ripped apart in a surge of chaotic force.


    Okay this kill is fucking hot. I like the old pit deathsight being used.

    ImyrrDynos
  • KogKog Member Posts: 376 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I'm glad they got something off of EL, I hate being EL for group fights and don't want anyone else to have to feel that pain.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,541 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    That was entirely intentional, because I also hate being Earth Lord for one (two if you count Bellow) uses.



    So hot.





    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    DynosRomaen
  • AndrayasAndrayas Member Posts: 14
    edited October 4

    I can understand that sentiment, but you can't apply that sentiment to everything. You can't say, "I hate being Depthswalker just so I can use litany" and then give Paladin litany. No one will ever play Earth Lord if you take away from it what makes it unique and neuter it. Just because you hate playing earth lord doesn't mean you should steal its abilities. Lots of people hate playing Jester, so are you going to auction off hangedman, aeon, etc.?


    It just rubs salt in the wound that you gave it to a faction locked class. It's not even like I can stop playing earth lord and starting playing Paladin. If the admin's are willing to delete my earth lord and give me Paladin I'm all for this change. Because yes, I totally agree with you, I'd much rather now be Paladin than Earth Lord.


    Edit: Was this ability given to other classes / can everyone access this ability? Or is it only Targossian's that don't need to be Earth Lord to use juggernaut?

    Post edited by Andrayas on
  • KogKog Member Posts: 376 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Fwiw I can't use Paladin, I don't even have a factional I'm Cyrenian. I'm just glad to see somebody making it. Maybe one day I'll be free too :(

    Prythe
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    So, I assume this means you are going to post them here so everyone can see them too right? Since it is simply a mechanical issue? Thanks Saonji, sometimes you are a good egg.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,541 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Earth lord is not good in groups whatsoever, I’m not sure who told you that. If you’re playing earth in groups, you should be playing something else. That needs to be addressed with the class itself, not disallowing unique skills to be used elsewhere. Beckon is proliferated, that doesn’t devalue it on the classes that have it just because I have a tank now, or Depthswalker got released.





    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I was going to until the whining started. Now I'm just enjoying that.

    To add to the above, damn the 1st person line for Catastrophe is even cooler.

    Saonji's mouth opens impossibly wide, a horrific transformation rendering her unto a black void drinking in all that is light and colour and warmth and more. With a hideous cracking and ripping sound her body tears itself asunder before your very eyes, shaped without shaping as if committed at the hand of the mad sculptor cast into abyssal throes of uttermost insanity. A howl looses itself from the gaping maw of this thing that Should Not Be as the abomination descends upon you in a murderous frenzy.

  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 5

    Overall Paladin rework looks fantastic. Jury still out on 2H but the other 3 specs look like a solid improvement - and by that I don't mean just "stronger" but also more interesting, more colorful, more complex and capable of standing up to other modern classes.

    I'm sure there will be some beef for tweaks but even after just a day, I think it's like 97% there at worst.

    My feedback is overwhelmingly positive but I do kinda wish we didn't have to spend 80 freaking hours retraining our falcons (eagles). Also my class arties stopped working (tuning fork, Inspiration duration, etc) - but assuming that will be fixed soon.

    Hunt/Impale is a meta changer, going to mean a lot more sales for the monolith maker industry.

    Kinda feel bad for RW. It was already the worst and just got completely shellacked. Hope they have some love coming their way.

  • AndrayasAndrayas Member Posts: 14

    I understand what you're saying, but the point is that juggernaut is not a generic skill, but rather one of the single most impactful abilities in group fights. When only Earth lord has this ability, it gives Earth Lord a specific purpose and value in being played. When you give such a unique and impactful skill to a class that already has many of them, you devalue earth lord. To put in plain language, the only people who are playing earth lord now are the suckers that can't play Paladin.

    Anyway, I think I've clearly communicated my point and I understand you disagree, so I'll let it go.

  • DraqoomDraqoom Member Posts: 543 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    I can't really think of an instance where juggernaut was used in a group fight that I was in except for maybe the first day someone got Earth Lord and tried it out. Earth Lord is terrible in groups, and juggernaut does not balance that out at all.


    Your argument though could be applied to beckon, which got handed to a few other classes than Apostate/Priest. Or evade which was given to Blademaster and then nerfed.


    It doesn't somehow lessen the value of Earth Lord, it's still a feat to achieve. If you're using Earth Lord for juggernaut, you still can. If you used it before instead of Paladin because you couldn't be a Paladin nothing has changed. If you're worried about juggernaut being used against you by a Paladin instead of an Earth Lord well yeah, I could see that being a thing since nobody was using Earth Lord for groups anyway.

    image

  • GallidaGallida Member Posts: 270 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I am utterly terrified of the potential of Unnamable 2H, for the record.

  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Why? It doesn't really do anything for 2hander, or Dual Blunt. Catastrophe requires a double mangle, and one of those mangles has to be an arm. Sure it could devastate arms -> catastrophe, but that's ... Very, very easy to avoid, since that means you're never getting tendons hit. And if they DO devastate legs, and then devastate arms (with max fractures), that's uh... Well you kinda deserve the death at that point, since that takes a ridiculously long time to reach. Two-hander isn't really gonna stack the horror aff all that well, if it all.


    Like I've said. Unnamable works for 2hander/Dual Blunt, but it doesn't exactly do anything particularly special, because those specs already work well enough without a tertiary.

  • GallidaGallida Member Posts: 270 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    1. Unnamable can give nausea on a tertiary balance, even if it's gated behind "opponent must be paralysed/prone/stunned". Battlefury focus speed/hit with curare, oh hey they're paralyzed, tertiary nausea. If you don't cure the nausea, you're opening yourself up to a precision head hit and skull fractures, which is exactly why you parry head to begin with. If you do cure the nausea, you've got clumsiness/lethargy/sensitivity and they can try again in five seconds.

    2. Leg tendons already hinder movement. Unnamable has tentacles and can activate them on their tertiary balance. Sure, it's giving up a bonus affliction and tentacles has less of a proc chance than piety/hands/distort, but it makes them incredibly hard to run from unless you tumble.

    It's the combination of adding in nausea on a tertiary balance and making it very hard to run from them, which means reliable skull fractures and it'd be very difficult to reset their momentum. Since skull fractures are a death sentence, I'd absolutely take a reliable way to get them over adding additional health pressure from Deathaura/Hugalaz procs.

  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I wouldn't say any of those things make two-hander scarier than it was. Pretty much both of those things were already factors before Unnamable became a thing; Infernal is still going to be, by far and wide, the scariest knight for using two-hander. Everyone who cares about actually using the class's potential, are going to be DWC or SnB. And I can tell you both of those specs are much more terrifying for Unnamable than 2h is.

  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,349 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    An active Patron. You're missing an active Patron, because the last one got chased off.

    Caelan
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    Could be worse. Their last one could have gone to Aetolia.

    DraqoomKinilanCaelan
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