PK Updates: Announce #5364

Thaisen

hmm... "half a day" = "long term consequences"??🤔

Eurice

That's precisely what I mean. "Occupying" a city for nearly a week in-game after like a full two IRL weeks of constant skirmishing means basically nothing. Three days and it's gone. No lasting consequences as any kind of roleplay impetus is drowned out under the crushing OOC weight of everybody knowing it doesn't actually mean anything, and no visible signs of it.

Pivot over to the ill-fated war system where the major penalty for losing is having something in your city showing that you lost. It's kind of laughable honestly. But what more can they add that won't just make people log off or stop playing once they get on the verge of actual losing?

Achaea has the same gutless "forever war" system problems as games like Planetside 2, except the latter at least has an accessible control scheme and immediate feedback that make it able to engage with a proper audience.

Sobriquet

And nobody in Hashan had any reaction whatsoever to having our guards wiped out by Eleusis on a loop for a few weeks...

There ARE lasting and meaningful consequences to raids if you allow there to be, the last thing we need is some mechanical aspect which ones down shops, post office, banks etc for "long term" just so you can say "oh, something happened". The player base has proven it won't engage at times when there is nothing at stake other than a single room and some pride, imagine the shit storm if there were some actuating lasting mechanical damage...

Group fights are the most fun, the raids, the shrine fights, the adhic skirmishes that break out.

Aegoth

@Eurice Targ doesn’t even have the monument in their city anymore because it was so offensive to people’s sensibilities that they made Aurora “RP” just chucking it to Mhaldor. So much for consequences to losing. I put “RP” in quotes because jt really was just a placating move to the immense backlash that Targ had about losing.

Archaeon

lol    

Atalkez

That monument was not removed because the Targ playerbase complained. It was never going to be a permanent fixture, you should know that? It literally had a city wide echo repeating the seven truths, why would that ever be a permanent thing that the city just had to deal with 75 years later? It lasted the 10 days or whatever and was booted, that seems entirely fine to me, since that's something that can consistently be brought up and discussed etc without novices wondering why the city of good has evil flavor text randomly.

Alternatively, the only lasting consequence of Targossas beating Mhaldor in the two wars before that were simply news posts that are quickly forgotten all the same.

Draqoom

I missed the loss to Mhaldor but I remember the victories before so I was confused to hear about the monument when I came back.

Ante

I’m fine with the winning City in a war getting hard nerfs like you can’t use your orb or font. Hell im okay with loser City losing some of its gold and credit coffers to the winner. Targ wants to purify the world from chaos and evil..doesn’t really have an effective system for war or not to satisfy that for players.

that being said group pvp is a shit ton of fun and it baffles me how people get bored by it. Achaea is a RP game first, but the rp for the game is its a world torn asunder by war. It’s not up to me, IMO, to make sure anyone but me has fun. I try to keep it fun for everyone sure, but it’s not my focus or goal. I want to have fun and due to where my toon is and how he plays, he wants to make sure his city mates can be involved in purifying the world. It baffles me that the majority of the game doesn’t want anything to do with group combat as..in this world it’s kill or be killed. Don’t whine when you get killed, rejoice when you get kills.

Thaisen

You are “baffled” that different people like different things? That’s baffling…

Gallida

Sure, let's add a mechanical incentive to hop aboard the organizational bandwagons.

Factional classes, active divine volunteers who don't view their organization as a burden, and a diverse playerbase willing to join in on anything not enough for you? How would you like to help grief another organization into the ground and encourage those players to hop on a bandwagon or quit playing altogether?

Saonji

Being unable to use your font/orb is a pretty shit take for consequences of losing a war. Yeah let's make it so a city who loses a war, is even more hamstrung when it comes to trying to defend against raiders. I think the only dumber take, is losing credits for doing so.

The rest of that post is kinda cringe. People play games for a whole host of different reasons, oftentimes that might conflict or disagree with why you play them. It's baffling that you seem to find that logic baffling. Personally, even BGs in WoW interest me more than group combat in Achaea, and that's saying a lot. But I guess BGs also don't tend to end up fighting 2-3x your numbers every fight, either.

Shirszae

That's really the thing, @Ante . We all want to have fun, and to an extent we all want to not have to deal with the question of whether the other party is having fun as well. Yes, this is an rp game, but first and foremost it is a game and without that essential consideration for the other party people will greatly hesitate to engage.

Now, obviously, what makes something not fun for people varies wildly from individual to individual and its essentially impossible to make everyone have fun because inevitably some people will express having fun only when they are not losing. So it's not something that can just be fixed.

But at the very least I think it is a good start to ask if you would be having fun if positions were reversed. Obviously, again, people with different outlooks will respond differently to any one situation, but if you can genuinely say you'd be having fun then at least you are not being an hypocrite pushing on people something you wouldn't want them to push on you.

Ante

@Shirszae Combat in this game is so largely opt-in that it almost doesn't matter if you want to fight or not, you really do not have to. You can always qq or journal. I have fun when I lose because I don't(raid setting is what I'm speaking on) sit there and just have someone tell me what to do. I ask questions to get better, and I actually try to do the most I can for a very unartied character I play in terms of trying to be creative and seeing what cities do what. It is 100% on the player outside of their character to find what is fun in the game and go and do that. If fun for you is talking to the same 3 people because they live far away IRL and you can't hang out with them, shit more power to you.

I, while it was a grief fest and did tilt me super heavily as that was who I was, played Targ when we got raided with no totems or guards in city. Shit gonna happen. I enjoy the chaotic nature of this game, how many endless possibilities there are. That felt like, actually high stakes to me. Is it truly so bad I want higher stakes for a game that is supposedly portrayed as life or death?

Anyway, @Saonji what do you think happens when a country loses a war in real life? They don't just get to keep all their weapons and power, lol. I understand Achaea will never be that realistic, but at the end of the day, it feels very empty to win raids and a room is tanked for a little while. You should have a legitimate incentive to defend your city, and I think a lot of that does fall on the Garden as they don't reward anybody(Sartan does sometimes, from what I've seen. Take this with a grain of salt, i don't log into achaea all day every day) for doing defenses or raiding and winning. A truefavour every now and then would be cool. Having, y'know, a GOD THAT WAKES UP and is like "Yo, good shit Targ. You been fighting the good fight, here's a forehead kiss. Muah." would be sick af, no Covid.

It's okay that you can't count tho, Saonji. Didn't your city just lose a 5v3(+1 if i read logs correctly) against mine? I'd like a meme of that too, pls.

I'm more baffled that a lot of the people are upset over my usage of the word "baffle" and would prefer to respond with smart aleck responses over actually finding something constructive to make group combat more fun for everyone, as it opens up legitimate roleplay avenues for characters to feel deeper and have a sense of "Okay cool, this guy hates he has to fight others but he's gonna do whatever he can to defend our home" vs. "Oh, he just says he cares about our home but he afks on a ship when it's raid time." I'm well aware most people don't think like me in this, but I don't know why it seems so outlandish to say that. Admittedly my last post did sound a little more rough around the edges. I just wanted to point out that there is nothing to allure folks into group combat to, y'know, protect their city. It's not like I'm saying you have to throw yourself at enemies every time they're in the city, but I'd be super disappointed in Targ if we got raided and had nobody even respond to try and fight it out. Seems a lot of the issue is it puts some of you out of your comfort zone, which is fine, but..in my life, you gotta get out of that comfort zone to grow as a person.

Moving on, I do think that bare minimum if we kill a guard stack or two, we should get a sanction. Love it or hate it, we just tryna make it so no more evils <3

Saonji

Pretty baffling post, bruh.

Also, unlike Shecks, I wasn't logged in for that so I'm not gonna comment on it. It's baffling you'd try to tag me about that.

Archaeon

Ante said:

 I have fun when I lose

Ante

That was a lot of fun ngl

Veldrin

You can always QQ or journal

'oh hey, I know you don't like PK but you can always just stop playing the game while it's ongoing, no biggie!'

Whut?

Sobriquet

Why do people always keep comparing what happens in Achaea to real life situations? It baffles me

Tahquil

I like to think of pronouncing baffle like waffle or vice versa and giggle.

Archaeon

The only ppl that compare irl war or fighting to achaea war or fighting are ppl that have not dome it irl. It's a very stupid argument for a variety of reasons and frankly very inappropriate.

Gallida

now hold on a minute

both are poorly planned with long-term unforeseen consequences, both are expensive and only serve to make a privately owned company wealthy, and trying to describe the minutiae of either to a layperson gets you funny stares and a sudden wealth of personal space

Eurice

oh my god

Regimadra

Hmm, I wonder if this thread has outlived its purpose.

Caelan

@Archaeon but my textbook/critically acclaimed movie says....

Gurklukke

Critically acclaimed MMORPH Final Fantasy 14 currently available with a free trial to level 60 up through Award Winning Expansion Heavensward?

Saonji

Are we talking about the CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED MMORPG FINAL FANTASY 14, NOW FREE UNTIL LEVEL 60 AND INCLUDING HEAVENSWARD?

[This post was sponsored by RAID: Shadow Legends]