Requesting an Administrator for 5000 gold for Fixing Contracts

Adrik

I wouldn't consider going into Hashan and then lightspire area illusioning Radiance start up on the entire city "VALID AND COOL RP"

You just look like a tool.

If you area-wide radianced.. Iunno. Something that wasn't literally an attack.. I might reconsider. As is, your logic is piss poor. An attack start up message =/= A room full of penguins.

Though those little bastards can DIE IN HELL.

Veldrin

thought that Radiance, like behead/cleave wasn't an attack until it actually did something cause it can be cancelled by the initiator before it can be completed and it's not doing anything until it's completed. You've always been able to attack if someone did it, but it wasn't actually giving cause until it went through. (Old school PK Lawyering, yo!).

It used to be one of the ways to get people into attacking without anyone getting cause (just like illusions) back in the PK Laws days.

Shecks

@Veldrin this is accurate, and has always been true up until... Today. The same exact thing was true for illusions and hindrance. All of that appears to be fine now though as I've been told that you can legally hired on for completely passive, harmless, untargeted abilities like blocking an exit, casting flood or frozen ground, or illusions of things that aren't attacks (like snap and first warning message of radiance). Was also told that simply mindlocking someone is a legal reason to hire even if you do literally nothing else.

The old rules around "you can defend yourself but you don't get long term right to kill someone including hiring" for this type of thing made perfect sense. Even the current rule regarding illusions says this opens you up to "appropriate IC response". I would never have imagined that hiring an assassin for an untargeted illusion of a non-attack would be considered "appropriate" but here we are.

As far as I can tell you're allowed to hire on anyone as long as you feel that it's warranted or as long as you can conjure up some BS about roleplay to an administrator when you get issued for it.

Then again I've seen other issues for things like hiring for gravehands be dismissed, which falls into exactly the same category (except that the gravehands were actually real, unlike an illusion, and actually do something to you, unlike Radiance warning messages).

So really it just seems to be a matter of which admin reads your issue and whether or not they've had their coffee. The fact that asking on discord whether this kind of stuff is legal gets a wave of 50/50 answers is proof enough that the rules are far too vague. I've had at least 5 people tell me you can hire for blocking and 5 others tell me you can't, for example, and there's absolutely no rule on this anymore so I assume you can do it (since it doesn't say you can't, and since apparently other non-attacks like illusion and emotes are legal reasons to hire as well).

Tahquil

You can have cause generated by blocking, frozen ground because it can hinder people and mess around with their straight forward, clean, combat. As for the illusions, you know they are illusions but not those you target, so to them you are placing them in a position combat is warranted.

I'm not sure about the grave hands thing, so I won't comment.

If it effects combat, hindering or activating, it can create cause.

If it is insulting, it creates cause.

Noone is going to kill you for illusion pink happy flowers blooming. If you call someone a penguin, no cause. But if it has been previously established between the two parties that calling someone is a penguin is horrifically insulting, cause.

You are being obtuse to paint your own narrative that you were in the right and the admin are out to get you.

Eryl

I think you are just living in the pettiest, most hatefully colored part of Achaea, and your game experience is suffering because you refuse to realize you made this bed for yourself.

Not Tahquil. She’s a treasure.

Tahquil

Fuckin' aye I am.

Caelan

and now she is a bi-continental one. LOOK OUT, SHE WON'T STOP UNTIL IT IS THE WORLD!

Eurice

I think if you're deliberately instigating things then getting upset at people exercising their right to respond in retaliation with an excuse that boils down to "it's just a prank", you're the joke.

Namino

The idea of radiance not being an attack until it completes is hilarious. If you walk into the area with me and radiance and I lock you back and mind pacify you... what? You can issue me for an unprovoked attack? Because you didn't attack? My only recourse is literally wait to DIE before I'm allowed to respond? This is the most asinine, paper thin, pathetic excuse for a defendable position I've ever seen. Or as we say in the hood "a Shecks".

Starting radiance is an attack. Illusioning it is illusioning an attack.

Ictinus

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.

We're happy with the latest batch of changes to the mark system and any future alterations we make will I'm sure take the remaining useful feedback in this discussion into account.