Ideas...ideas everywhere...

Zbaco

So I was looking at the Ideas listing today, and realized that there are...

...just a few...

...ok, maybe more than a few...

...ok, a LOT of submitted ideas that have reached (and in many cases far surpassed) the 10-support threshold for admin review, yet are still on the list.

I do recognize the fact that Achaea's coders have lots on their plate and can only devote so much time to player-submitted ideas, but I have to admit it's a bit discouraging to see that ever-growing list with lots of good ideas and not having any sort of timeframe on when (or if) they will be implemented. I know there are a few that make it through the process here and there, but heck, the last "Inventive Ideas" post with more than a few ideas was November 2019, and the one before that was March 2019.

Admins, could you perhaps give us some insight on when the next batch of approved ideas might be due out, and maybe about the process an idea goes through on your side of things, once it hits the required level of support? I think that might help relieve some of the frustration players experience when seeing that massive list of ideas. Thank you!

Prythe

You are right they have a lot on their plate, but clearly some of these are very much wanted, and sensible. 

We do need more info and transparency here. 

Or another Tsol wave  

Hmmmm. 

Veldrin

They automatic removal of ideas meeting 10 treshold was removed, so more people could show support for ideas

Zbaco

Veldrin said:

They automatic removal of ideas meeting 10 treshold was removed, so more people could show support for ideas

Correct, and I like that they did that. However, I'm wondering more about implementation of these ideas - if and when, to be exact.

Prythe

Zbaco said:

Veldrin said:

They automatic removal of ideas meeting 10 treshold was removed, so more people could show support for ideas

Correct, and I like that they did that. However, I'm wondering more about implementation of these ideas - if and when, to be exact.

Some of them might not be viable - which of course would be helpful to know as well.

I also wonder how many are ROI issues, although I hope and assume that "Playerbase satisfaction" (and therefore retention) factors into the hard core money decisions.

Accountant: Players want a BLAHBLAH! It will cost us 100 programming hours and we won't even be able to charge for it.

Numbers Geek: If we give Players the BLAHBLAH we will retain an additional 15% of newcomers and slow the drain of oldbies by a factor of 5. As we all know, our revenue grows exponentially based on average players, so any change which increases the number of players helps our bottom line, albeit indirectly at times.

Phaestus

I'll try to address a few points here.

 > ok, a LOT of submitted ideas that have reached (and in many cases far surpassed) the 10-support threshold for admin review, yet are still on the list.

Ideas that reach the support threshold aren't approved for implementation, or anything of the sort. Support is just a general indicator for us of the playerbase's feelings on a certain idea. Ideas that have reached this point will stay on the list until we address them, one way or another.

 > it's a bit discouraging to see that ever-growing list with lots of good ideas and not having any sort of timeframe on when (or if) they will be implemented. I know there are a few that make it through the process here and there, but heck, the last "Inventive Ideas" post with more than a few ideas was November 2019, and the one before that was March 2019.

Ideas (generally speaking) are simply not a high priority, and approved ideas don't usually get batched in newsposts, which is why it may seem that they're not kept up with. We keep an eye on new ideas that come in and evaluate based on how much of an improvement they'd make, how much of the playerbase they'd affect (both positively and negatively), how much time and effort they'd take to implement, what other systems might be affected, and various other concerns depending on the type of idea. When we see easy changes that are definite quality of life improvements for players, they usually get approved and implemented pretty quickly (many of the notes on the changes newsboard have come from ideas). Things that are major improvements for most players but are less easy to do usually get tossed around a bit and brainstormed, but make it in sooner or later. Anything else has to be weighed against events that are running, new content that needs developing, optimising and tweaking old bits of code when they rear their ugly heads, and the ever-growing list of bugs, which we've stayed on top of this year more than ever (IIRC we've only had two bugs out of many thousands expire since the start of the year, and one of those two expirys was already fixed, just not deleted properly, and the other was a very obscure quest bug that affected a single person). It's all just a matter of taking our limited time and weighing up where that time is best spent for the most positive impact on the game. All in all, that means there's really no timeline for when pending ideas will be considered or approved, it just depends on the idea.

 > and maybe about the process an idea goes through on your side of things, once it hits the required level of support?

Ideas are a bit of a grey area, mostly because of the wide range of requests we get through the idea list. What it takes for an idea to actually be approved is entirely dependent on the idea itself. Allow CITY BOUNTY CLAIM by name? Sure, looks good, lets do it. No real need for discussion there, easy enough to implement, one coder can see that idea and take a few minutes on their own to add it in. Ideas that have to do with player rewards, or that have potential lore or combat implications? Those would require several folks to discuss and consider, and, to be frank, sometimes that level of effort and consideration simply isn't worth the time of several people that can be better spent elsewhere, when the idea in question doesn't really have any tangible benefit to players. "Cool factor" ideas are great, we like them, especially when they're good ideas, but sometimes they're just not worth the effort.

 > I also wonder how many are ROI issues, although I hope and assume that "Playerbase satisfaction" (and therefore retention) factors into the hard core money decisions.

The only idea approvals tied to monetary decisions are those involving the return or deletion of artefacts, or those tied to the generation of credits, and those are considered carefully by the entire admin team. Ideas in general have nothing to do with the business side of Achaea, and are considered solely for the health of the game and the quality of life for players.

Argwin

Thank you for the great glance into the admin side of the house. For myself I will say that I've had two Ideas deleted as things that will never be implemented. I didn't mind them being deleted at all, but I was very impressed that they were deleted within minutes of submission, so I can attest that new Ideas get visibility from an admin almost immediately, which is encouraging.

Zbaco

Argwin said:

Thank you for the great glance into the admin side of the house. For myself I will say that I've had two Ideas deleted as things that will never be implemented. I didn't mind them being deleted at all, but I was very impressed that they were deleted within minutes of submission, so I can attest that new Ideas get visibility from an admin almost immediately, which is encouraging.

Counterpoint, it can, at times, be slightly annoying when that happens and they nuke it so quickly. Like, did you guys even read my carefully thought-out idea that I spent entire seconds writing? Hmph....

Argwin

True, but I knew mine would never happen, I just wanted to know if others liked the ideas. 

Zbaco

Also, thank you coders for the new batch of changes that went live this morning

Accipiter

There has to be a happy middle ground where ideas stick around for a while but the list doesn't get so big it becomes viewed as ignored. Maybe make them hidden from players if supported items have gone a month without changing.

I would hesitate to bother putting a decent amount of effort into my submissions if I thought I was just throwing it into the sea and a shorter list would make it less intimidating to look through instead of looking at specific ideas when their creator is looking to score support.

Tysandr

Should have a 3v3 tournament with each team championing one idea.

Winner of tournament gets some version of their idea implemented.

Zbaco

Accipiter said:

There has to be a happy middle ground where ideas stick around for a while but the list doesn't get so big it becomes viewed as ignored. Maybe make them hidden from players if supported items have gone a month without changing.

I would hesitate to bother putting a decent amount of effort into my submissions if I thought I was just throwing it into the sea and a shorter list would make it less intimidating to look through instead of looking at specific ideas when their creator is looking to score support.

Perhaps a big red "NOPE" or similar marker by those ideas that aren't feasible (for whatever reason) might help?

Argwin

I had submitted an Idea at one point to add a status field to Ideas, indicating when they were 'under review', 'pending', or 'in progress', but ironically enough it didn't get enough support. To be honest, it would probably add a layer of effort to the process and actually slow things down more though.

Cooper

I think there's a gap between the admin intended function of the ideas system and the players perception of the system.

The system is mostly just to show admin what we do or don't want, this is shown by sourcing ideas from players and having us vote for them. I'm sure there's some organization/project management stuff built in that we don't see as well.

An idea with +100 votes doesn't mean the idea is being implemented. It just means that players think it would be a good thing to implement.

After that, the admin team has to decide if they want to spend the time to implement the idea. Suggestions that will positively impact "a lot" of people and take little coding will almost always be implemented. The idea that helps you and your 3 friends but would take 15 hours of coding time probably won't be implemented. 

Argwin

Isn't that pretty much what Phaestus explained above?

Archaeon

Yes but people like to feel important by injecting their own, similar answers into threads.

Cooper

Or I missed his post several days ago, no need to be a dick.

Adrik

Cooper said:

Or I missed his post several days ago, no need to be a dick.

Why not? You usually are on other posts.

Nicola

All of you, knock it off. This is not rants, if you have nothing constructive to add, go away.