Talk me off the ledge! Apostate -> Serpent?!

Kzir

I am an Apostate and it is awesome. I love pretty much everything about it, Mhaldor, and its flavor... BUT my mind keeps looking at Serpent and like "oh man, that looks so nice". Then I have internal dialog and search forums and look at nearly every post about Apostate and Serpent. I'm going to be diving into combat soon (as my primary focus), and coding a system around it as I go. Additionally, I want to get dragon (level 86 right meow).

If I switch to Serpent:

- I lose the tankiness and baalzadeen

- Would need to reincarnate and possible get an artifact dirk

- Would need to get lessons to tri-trans again

- Combat would be more complex and timing for lock stuff is more critical? (just going by searching forums)

I have Trans all class and general skills, and trans fitness. I have these artefacts: SoA, a crimson-hued daegger (would need to tradein),  a golden band of Draconic vigour, a Ceylonese ring, a ring of flying, a ring of Lucretian clarity, a Stygian pendant, an Amulet of the Will (would need to tradein?!), and goggles of whitesight (hey, I spent a ton of time bashing in the tundra, blizzards are annoying).

Can you tell me why I should just stay Apostate or switch to Serpent? I don't care so much about the credit costs.

Advin

Why not just dive into combat as an Apostate? Imagine that you switch, what will stop you from thinking "Ah, what if I just stayed Apostate". Maybe try Apo our in combat, so you could make more informed decision.

Kzir

Advin said:

Why not just dive into combat as an Apostate? Imagine that you switch, what will stop you from thinking "Ah, what if I just stayed Apostate". Maybe try Apo our in combat, so you could make more informed decision.

well that's a pretty solid argument. I'll stick with it for now

Sophi

Grass is always greener on the other side when it comes to class switching. Dive into apostate combat first and see how much you like it. If you want, you can bug me for a few spars and we can talk about serpent IG.

In general, you don't want to trade in artefacts unless you will get little to no use out of them, so wp amulet is probably going to be a keeper.

Kzir

Sophi said:

Grass is always greener on the other side when it comes to class switching. Dive into apostate combat first and see how much you like it. If you want, you can bug me for a few spars and we can talk about serpent IG.

In general, you don't want to trade in artefacts unless you will get little to no use out of them, so wp amulet is probably going to be a keeper.

thank you, much appreciated!

Saonji

Ask @Mizik he can attest to class switching being fun. You should class switch.

Mizik

Apostate is one of the best duelists in the game. I despise Serpent combat. I would only recommend Serpent to non combatants.

Qimaileh

I went Apostate -> Shaman and I don't regret it at all but I'm definitely more focused on bashing. As fun as Serpent looks for utility, there's no way I'd do it without a lot of atefacts or a different class to hunt with.

Gallida

Apostate is one of the best duelists and top-tier skirmishing classes, plus, it's flavorful as hell (literally!). The hunting isn't too bad, but it's definitely not top-tier. It's also a very good class unartied and you can buy full tankiness rather than invest in offensive arties. However, its utility drops in larger groups because after a certain point you want to just damage people out and most classes can do that better.

Serpent is also one of the best duelists, and has a much more varied toolkit to kill people, whereas Apostate is a bit more linear. The hunting is much better if you invest in it, and you get phase/evade. In groups, you're good in either skirmishes or large deathball melees. The catch with Serpent is the skill ceiling is *much* higher, you'll have to invest in arties to be truly effective, and hypnosis is its own complicated beast. You're also not tied down to Mhaldor like with Apostate.

Ultimately, they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Play what makes *you* happy.

Archaeon

I don't think apostate is as good as people are saying 1v1. Groups it dominates. 1v1 can be pretty weak. 

Gallida

Archaeon said:

I don't think apostate is as good as people are saying 1v1. Groups it dominates. 1v1 can be pretty weak. 

It's far from top-tier, but it's a good place to start out for getting started in combat, it doesn't need arties to function, and if you had two random midbies, one Apostate and one something else, my initial gut says bet on the Apostate just because it's a hard class to fight unless you know the tricks of it. Once you start fighting people who know the tricks, it's a bit weaker.

Small groups, it's a monster: On-demand impatience for locks, room hinder, beckon, impale, infiltration. Large groups, eh. Beckon and room hinder are nice but you're not going to put out the damage you'll want in deathball-on-deathball situations.

Saonji

Fuck shadowstrike.

Archaeon

Gallida said:
  you're not going to put out the damage you'll want in deathball-on-deathball situations.

That's not accurate. Sicken is huge in groups

Reyson

Sicken, corrupt, and cath are all huge killers in groups. 

Atalkez

Archaeon said:

Gallida said:
  you're not going to put out the damage you'll want in deathball-on-deathball situations.

That's not accurate. Sicken is huge in groups

It actually is accurate. Beyond 8-9 people, unless there are multiple Apostates, you're going to be hard pressed to get a sicken/sicken damage combo in before they pop.

Cooper

Sicken is good for people who want to be useful but aren't good at combat. You can just do sicken/sicken on loop forever and still do some good. It isn't as useful as most people think because you have to have asthma stuck in order to stick manaleech and slickness.

Kzir - stick with Apostate. You're still really new and haven't explored it much yet. It's a fun class that is very strong in 1v1 and small groups, and very useful (and still strong) in big groups.

Also feel free to ask for artefact advice! The level 2 health/mana regeneration are great and will save you a lot of gold on health/mana/potash and increase your ability to tank. In general it is better to go a bunch of level 1 arties and then slowly upgrade to level 2/3 as time goes on - you can upgrade from level 1 to 2 for the difference in price.

Kzir

Cooper said:

Sicken is good for people who want to be useful but aren't good at combat. You can just do sicken/sicken on loop forever and still do some good. It isn't as useful as most people think because you have to have asthma stuck in order to stick manaleech and slickness.

Kzir - stick with Apostate. You're still really new and haven't explored it much yet. It's a fun class that is very strong in 1v1 and small groups, and very useful (and still strong) in big groups.

Also feel free to ask for artefact advice! The level 2 health/mana regeneration are great and will save you a lot of gold on health/mana/potash and increase your ability to tank. In general it is better to go a bunch of level 1 arties and then slowly upgrade to level 2/3 as time goes on - you can upgrade from level 1 to 2 for the difference in price.

I'm sticking with it

Sobriquet

Kzir said:

Cooper said:

Sicken is good for people who want to be useful but aren't good at combat. You can just do sicken/sicken on loop forever and still do some good. It isn't as useful as most people think because you have to have asthma stuck in order to stick manaleech and slickness.

Kzir - stick with Apostate. You're still really new and haven't explored it much yet. It's a fun class that is very strong in 1v1 and small groups, and very useful (and still strong) in big groups.

Also feel free to ask for artefact advice! The level 2 health/mana regeneration are great and will save you a lot of gold on health/mana/potash and increase your ability to tank. In general it is better to go a bunch of level 1 arties and then slowly upgrade to level 2/3 as time goes on - you can upgrade from level 1 to 2 for the difference in price.

I'm sticking with it

For 6 days?

Market): Kzir says, "Paying to learn Serpent abilities to Transcendent (from Virtuoso)."

Mizik

@Kzir you chump!

Honestly, Serp is a lot of fun and we can always use more snipers. I just don't like it in top tier.

And honestly, few can appreciate that class change itch better @Telinus. Think that's how I ended up tagged here. Perhaps you're #oneofus

Paux

So... looks like I'm too late to tell you not to jump.  

But this is why you shouldn't have: 
"I am an Apostate and it is awesome. I love pretty much everything about it, Mhaldor, and its flavor..."

Cooper

You were the chosen one

In the distance you hear a guard yell, "Kzir is now considered an enemy of the City of Mhaldor, you

are ordered to kill him on sight!"

Sobriquet

Let me guess rhe next thread... "Shall I retire or stick with it".. followed by a new Apostate named Lvir appearing in Mhaldor..