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Minimal investment PvP questions

MarmidonMarmidon Member Posts: 16
Greetings. Since I am not willing to spend more than 10$  a month on any game, I wanted to clarify some things. I have been seeing comments on websites, that you can be a decent mid-tier combatant, even without any investment. But I am struggling to understand what exactly it means in terms of a gameplay.

1. From what I saw on these forums, if you want to be a combatant with no investments, you have to choose between Runie/Depthwalker and Alchemist, is it true?
2. From what I understand, there is group and individual combat - how often do they happen?  And specifically, how often does group combat happen.
3. Let's say if a person wanted to train combat, how would they go about achieving it?
4. What a person who reached lvl 80 and gained a few trans skills can realistically achieve? 

Any honest feedback is welcome.
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Comments

  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited August 11
    1) You don't have to but they're probably the best options. Dailycredits alleviates this issue a fair bit, given enough time.
    2) Depends on what city you're in, really. Singles combat doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to, though.
    3) Join a city with active fighters in it. There's not a single competent one that won't give advice, if you're not annoying about it.
    4) Realistically? Probably not much. You can do group fighting to an extent with minimal investment. Provided you don't mind dying a lot, and often being targetted before others.

    Number 4 I'd say depends on your mindset. You can probably beat scrubs and midbies with minimal investment. In theory you can beat anyone with just trans'd class skills. Certain classes you're just gonna get shredded against without artifacts, or just not be able to outpace, though, if they have artifacts.
    Marmidon
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,669 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1. No, it isn't true. Some classes benefit more from artefacts though.
    2. As often as you want.
    3. Start by reading all your class abilities and knowing what they do, reading HELP CURES and associated help files, and learn about the various locks that can be done.
    4. You'll be able to 1v1 fight anyone around your might without problem, participate in group fights/raids, and participate in group and solo PvE. You can also 1v1 people with tons of arties but that does require a lot of skill.

    Marmidon
  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lolMember Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Honestly alchemist is your best bet
    MarmidonRomTelinusFendrel
  • RomRom Member Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Highly suggest alchemist as a minimal investment class. Depthswalker is also excellent, both have varied strengths. I'd say Alchemist is better 1v1 and Depthswalker is (substantially) better in groups. Neither would be a mistake to choose. Alchemist is probably more straightforward for a new player, but they're both on the easier side.
    Chat with other players in real time on your phone, browser, or desktop client:
    Come join the Achaea discord!
    Marmidon
  • KzirKzir Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    what about Apostate?  :'(
    I'm not on forums any longer. Hope to meet you in-game!

    Marmidon
  • GallidaGallida Member Posts: 115 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Will echo Alchemist and Depthswalker as good entry level classes, and also throw a vote towards Shaman. I think there's two other things to consider:

    1. Ease of hunting: Alchemist and Depthswalker have mediocre hunting unartied, which means it'll be harder to gain levels outside of PvP. Shaman has pretty good hunting potential without arties, at the cost of needing a second trans skill to reach the full potential. This isn't as crucial as the ease of entry as people have bashed up to Logosian as terrible classes, but it's worth considering.

    2. Ability to code and track afflictions: Depthswalker requires almost nothing to be moderately affective, Alchemist requires a bit more, Shaman requires some serious scripting and affliction knowledge, way moreso if you include Vodun.

    Ultimately, don't be afraid to ask for help. I don't think there's a single city that's going to shoo you away if you ask questions and take input.
    Marmidon
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    No class 'requires' scripting beyond basic aliases.
    MarmidonRique
  • ErylEryl Member Posts: 112 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    1. Alchemist and Depthswalker, like everyone has suggested, are solid choices. Apostate, jester, and shaman could also fit the bill.

    2. This type of combat you take part in is solely up to you. You can join the groups fighting or you can go out and try to do your own thing.  The community meta seems to be shifting away from 1v1s and duels, however.

    3. Just play the game, honestly.  Your city and house will teach you the basics, and if you struggle to find more than that, there are plenty of players (including your sworn enemies) who are more than willing to share their thoughts on helping you improve.  Fighters are only fighters with other fighters to fight.

    4. Alchemist, Shaman, and Jester are not going to have nearly the uphill battle as other classes due to their design. Alchemist is oppressive without any offensive arties needed, a level 80 non-artied Shaman is almost just as potent as a dragon fully artied, and Jester is boring because it could potentially win any fight if you're willing to play smart.  Depthswalker will struggle more because it's most popular (and arguably most effective) route is based on doing health/mana damage; defensive arties on your opponent will quickly start making it difficult until you get a very good handle on your class. Apostate is a strange class that has changed a little bit (including the addition of new artefacts), but I still think it's a very very strong un-artied class.  Realistically speaking, you'll win the fights you try to win if you try your hardest and never give up, however cliche that sounds.

    Biggest advice: Don't assume your IC enemies hate you and want to see you fail.  We don't do that here.
    MarmidonRique
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 769 @ - Epic Achaean
    Shaman's got pretty great 1v1 and group options, but you'll need a little bit of a coding background to make the most of it, and the survivability might not be great until you get used to it. I really like it, though. 
    Marmidon
  • MarmidonMarmidon Member Posts: 16
    I have already configured a few packages (svof for curing, some UI, bashing), as well as made a few adjustments to scripts, so they work better together. I am a software engineer by trade, and even though some days I find it really hard to code outside of work, It was rather rewarding experience, to be able to do those things without any help.

    I also wonder, if there are players that went the minimal investment route for combat, and what was their experience?
  • RomRom Member Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Marmidon said:
    I have already configured a few packages (svof for curing, some UI, bashing), as well as made a few adjustments to scripts, so they work better together. I am a software engineer by trade, and even though some days I find it really hard to code outside of work, It was rather rewarding experience, to be able to do those things without any help.

    I also wonder, if there are players that went the minimal investment route for combat, and what was their experience?

    There are plenty of people who inject a little bit of funds just to tri-trans and then get going off of that. Ideally you will have some way to make your ingame time lucrative which is easier now than ever with daily renown credits. Usually people who are heavily invested in the game end up spending money to some extent because they feel its worth it for how much they play. Usually if a person chooses a full f2p route its out of necessity rather than a self imposed challenge.
    Chat with other players in real time on your phone, browser, or desktop client:
    Come join the Achaea discord!
    MarmidonRique
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,200 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I used to be poster boy for unartied combat. These days I'd say Apostate, Alchemist, Druid, Depthswalker, Tekura Monk, Occultist, Paladin/Infernal, Psion pretty much need no arties - the playing field has never been more even. I love the QOL and pressure arties offer, but all these have beautiful insta kills to abuse that don't require artefacts. Unfortunately, non dragons have the bashing requirement which the Knights pretty much DOMINATE. Knights have top DR and top end DPS, it's pretty stacked. 
    image
    MarmidonUtianima
  • MarmidonMarmidon Member Posts: 16
    Thank everyone for the answers, it is encouraging to see so many opinions, Shaman has been added to my list and I will definitely try them out. I already dropped a lesson package on my runie, so I am not opposed to spending some money. But a while ago, I have made a promise to myself to spend very reasonably on p2w games, after being addicted to a few, and I intent to keep that promise. 

    I think achieving a goal of being somewhat useful in group combat is the most realistic option, with Depthswalker and Shaman bringing the most to the table in that regard.
    In my previous games, I have always found a good way to compensate for lack of investment/skill is to go utility/teamwork route, that usually allowed to make the most impact, by enabling your teammates to carry.

    So the only question I have remaining is - from what I read in other discussions, Targossas and Mhaldor are the most active at the group combat front? With Hashan being at the third place? I have also been hearing news of Cyrene becoming active in raiding, so would they be fourth now?




    NhakraUtianima
  • KzirKzir Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    ultimately, you need to pick some class and community in the game you enjoy. The abilities will soon grow to be a minor part of the game. 
    I'm not on forums any longer. Hope to meet you in-game!

    Marmidon
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 769 @ - Epic Achaean
    In the end, the time you play and the people you hang out with will make more of an impact on your PvP prospects than anything else. If you don't play much in European evenings or American evenings, for example, you'll not find Targossas to find a very fight-heavy crowd, but if you're around at those times, you'll probably be able to get all the fights you want.

    At times finding opponents is harder than finding people to raid with, honestly. Or, as well, finding a balanced fight you can win, in some cases.
    Marmidon
  • GallidaGallida Member Posts: 115 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited August 12
    Honestly, make a character in each city and see what grabs you, particularly if you're always going to be on at a certain time. Better to poke around on six alts and then pick one than blindly pick one and hope it's a good fit.

    edit: Disclaimer, this does not apply if you want to do a factional class, but that should be enough of a hook to build around assuming you don't become a habitual class swapper.
    MarmidonRomRique
  • KzirKzir Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    One thing I learned about Mhaldor in particular: they have strong PvPers/raiders, but more importantly that the RP of the city can be a bit rough at first... but try to focus on the RP being part of the game and the people behind the characters are mostly normal people like you and me. So, if they're calling you a slave and telling you what to do, that's just part of the flavor of the city, not some jerk being like "f*ck this toon, in particular". 

    I picked apostate because I was a priest but thought apostate just sounds cooler. Also I was turned off from Mhaldor at first (above), but then it is kinda nice. 

    Apostate doesn't truly need artefacts, but I'm a newb and just going by what I've read on these forums (think I read every thread mentioning Apostate) and in-game. I haven't done PvP yet, except where Entaro told me to kill him one time. 
    I'm not on forums any longer. Hope to meet you in-game!

    MarmidonRique
  • MarmidonMarmidon Member Posts: 16
    edited August 12
    Reyson said:
    In the end, the time you play and the people you hang out with will make more of an impact on your PvP prospects than anything else. 
    ...
    At times finding opponents is harder than finding people to raid with, honestly. Or, as well, finding a balanced fight you can win, in some cases.
    This is a good perspective, I have never considered that finding opponents could be an issue. For some reason I imagined that it is mostly Targossas and Mhaldor battling it out with each other, but if each city is more or less active, it shouldn't be an issue. I was just worried to be invest heavily in a city, to later find out they are not really active in fighting.

    Sorry if these questions seem stupid, just trying to get a feel of what I am getting into, things that are really obvious to older players are almost impassible for newer ones to know, unless asking OOC.

    Kzir said:
    One thing I learned about Mhaldor in particular: they have strong PvPers/raiders, but more importantly that the RP of the city can be a bit rough at first... but try to focus on the RP being part of the game and the people behind the characters are mostly normal people like you and me. So, if they're calling you a slave and telling you what to do, that's just part of the flavor of the city, not some jerk being like "f*ck this toon, in particular". 

    I picked apostate because I was a priest but thought apostate just sounds cooler. Also I was turned off from Mhaldor at first (above), but then it is kinda nice. 

    Apostate doesn't truly need artefacts, but I'm a newb and just going by what I've read on these forums (think I read every thread mentioning Apostate) and in-game. I haven't done PvP yet, except where Entaro told me to kill him one time. 
    Yeah, it was intimidating at first to ask questions or ask for help in Mhaldor clan channel first, but after just doing it, people were helpful. Hopefully one day we can spar and learn combat together!
    KzirRique
  • LyrinLyrin Member Posts: 198 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm always surprised that Psion doesn't get a look-in with these minimal investment threads.   In a similar fashion to shaman/apostate/alchemist, it doesn't require artifacts to progress its kill paths and has several defensive abilities (rally, roth, wavesurge) which can help cover a lack of defensive arties.
    AdvinArchaeon
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 1,104 @ - Epic Achaean
    Two of your kill paths as psion (flurry and excise) are dependent on your ability to pressure health, which is heavily impacted by strength and arties. And the class tends to be a bit of a glass cannon defensively, -especially- artyless. It's not -bad- with little investment, but its potential is gated behind arties to a substantially greater extent than shaman/apostate/alchy/DW.
    Advin
  • SaonjiSaonji Member Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Flurry damage isn't really dependent on artifacts, since it's a flat amount. It is dependent on your target having rubbish curing though.
    Archaeon
  • AdvinAdvin Member Posts: 6
    Lyrin said:
    I'm always surprised that Psion doesn't get a look-in with these minimal investment threads.   In a similar fashion to shaman/apostate/alchemist, it doesn't require artifacts to progress its kill paths and has several defensive abilities (rally, roth, wavesurge) which can help cover a lack of defensive arties.
    I would guess, since Psion does not even have a section in "Individual class sections", that it would be not easy for a new player to find information on forums or in game (I assume not a lot of people play Psion, if there is not a lot of posts on the forum).
  • SantarSantar Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,455 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Basically any class that doesn't get faster balance times from artefacts is a valid choice

    image

    KzirGallida
  • KzirKzir Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Advin said:
    Lyrin said:
    I'm always surprised that Psion doesn't get a look-in with these minimal investment threads.   In a similar fashion to shaman/apostate/alchemist, it doesn't require artifacts to progress its kill paths and has several defensive abilities (rally, roth, wavesurge) which can help cover a lack of defensive arties.
    I would guess, since Psion does not even have a section in "Individual class sections", that it would be not easy for a new player to find information on forums or in game (I assume not a lot of people play Psion, if there is not a lot of posts on the forum).


    I think forums suck for that info. Looking at forums, you'd think this game is dead.

    Most content is from years ago, which you're not allowed to reply in... and most new content is mine or mega-threads (since Kzir stepped up to ask all these questions) :) 

    I get great feedback here, but mostly going to get help from Discord.
    I'm not on forums any longer. Hope to meet you in-game!

    Rique
  • ErylEryl Member Posts: 112 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kzir said:

    I get great feedback here, but mostly going to get help from Discord.
    NO CHILD!

    Make it a whole IC experience, my guy. You have tons of people at your disposal (and your time zone) in your city that could help you more than the people on discord can.  Use them first!
    CooperDynos
  • AdvinAdvin Member Posts: 6
    Eryl said:
    Kzir said:

    I get great feedback here, but mostly going to get help from Discord.
    NO CHILD!

    Make it a whole IC experience, my guy. You have tons of people at your disposal (and your time zone) in your city that could help you more than the people on discord can.  Use them first!
    Unless...

    Tysandr
  • KzirKzir Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited August 20
    Eryl said:
    Kzir said:

    I get great feedback here, but mostly going to get help from Discord.
    NO CHILD!

    Make it a whole IC experience, my guy. You have tons of people at your disposal (and your time zone) in your city that could help you more than the people on discord can.  Use them first!

    I get that, I do, but you can't ask OOC things that way. Perhaps I'm not as creative as I should be in that regard though.

    I don't ask "help me with how to play my class" or "what are good places to bash" or "what is Good/Evil/Chaos/Treehugging", I ask that stuff IC. 

    "Could someone enlightenment on if I was to have more um constitution in my body, how many more seconds will I live should I start to bleed out... but in a measurement that is insane?" ~> how many HP will I get if I had 1 or 3 more points of constitution?
    I'm not on forums any longer. Hope to meet you in-game!

    Rique
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,040 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Levels, health, and stats are all IC. You can ask that question ICly, and not phrase it like you've been hit in the head.
    CooperUtianima
  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,392 @ - Epic Achaean
    From HELP INSANITY:

    Some fancy that qualities of their own existence, such as their health or life
    experience are nothing more than numbers! Chilling, isn't it?
    CooperErylRique
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,588 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Armali said:
    From HELP INSANITY:

    Some fancy that qualities of their own existence, such as their health or life
    experience are nothing more than numbers! Chilling, isn't it?

    Which is a bit weird, because HELP CIRCLES exists and seems to imply we do, in fact, measure things in numbers:

    6.20.1 Circles
           6.20 < Levels of Experience                  PERMISSIONS > 6.21


    (See HELP LEVELS)

    Circles are round. So are spheres, which are like circles, but not the same.
    Even discs are like circles, but they are also not the same. Some things are
    shaped like circles, or discs, or spheres. Some things move in circles. Nothing
    much moves in discs. A few things move in spheres, maybe.

    What does a circle (or a disc, or a sphere, for that matter) have to do with
    experience? Nothing! Unless maybe some are going around in circles, not getting
    anywhere. Like a chicken with its head cut off.

    Some levels of experience have names. Some of those names are very interesting.
    Those names are still names of LEVELS of experience. Yes, even if they have the
    word 'circle' in them!


    In real life we measure damn near everything with numbers, seems silly that Achaeans wouldn't, especially when they have specific abilities to do so.

    VanRique
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