Divine Interaction and Punishments

Vasher

Hi, I’m Vasher.  A little background on me as a player, I started in IRE in 2000 and have played fairly consistently. Though I have not played Achaea in more than 10 years, I’ve primarily played in Lusternia during that time. What I’ve come back to is a completely different game.

 

For about four days now I’ve had a divine curse on me that causes this https://ada-young.com/pastebin/B3SzaI2N to happen about 3 times an hour. I received this curse after Astarod defiled a shrine in some temple on Meropis. He was subsequently afflicted by the divinity but not in the same way I was. I’m unsure of the differences between the two but it appears his was a one time affliction, and it was cured by my healing rite.

 

Normally, I’d be happy with some divine interaction even if it was negative like this as it’s an opportunity for roleplay and development of my character. However, I’ve not once through this process been spoken to by the divine that did this. Thinking oh this is an in character punishment for me healing Astarod I attempted several in character ways of removing it, including under going a purifying ritual in a flame of Deucalion’s order.

 

From speaking to others, it seems that the only resolution to this is time which really feels more like an OOC punishment to me. Honestly, if Tianondria had not also been cursed, (which I’m not sure why, she was just there when I put up healing rites) then I wouldn’t know what this was for. It doesn’t show up on GODFEELINGS or PUNISHMENTS.

 

All I really want to do right now is bash and this has put a complete halt to it. I suppose what I’d like to know is this common in Achaea? Divine punishments with no interaction? There are a few other things I’ve seen and heard from my patron which has made me question if this is just how things are there? Am I doing something wrong in not being able to cure this?

Tahquil

Looks like a bug in that a one off punishment is repeating itself..

In previous reoccurring divine curses it is 1-2 afflictions per tick. Maybe you were tapped by a divine once but by a weird conjuct of code its firing repeatedly. You could try issuing yourself for clarification if its a IC punishment, a glitch, or something else.

Aegoth

Maybe you shouldn't be defiling in temples?

Astarod

Aegoth said:

Maybe you shouldn't be defiling in temples?

Nah, him and Tia weren't there, not for the temple defile. Still though, kind of weak response, if I'd gotten cursed, oh well, but two people not even involved seems kinda petty, more of a 'flex' than anything else.


EDIT: It was just me and Halos. @Tahquil I figured it was about over when Tia died to it since it was like a 'culmination', but it just restarted again.

I personally think curses should appear in GodFeelings, as it's supposedly "IC". 

Adrik

tbh. Me being toaded for an IRL day is better than whatever fresh hell that is.

That more-or-less makes the game completely unplayable outside of sitting in one room with someone (or yourself if a class that can do it) upkeeping Healing / Hallelujah / Harmony (or w/e the magi one is).

If every 20 minutes you get true-locked and to slowly die (due to nausea)... which'll take about a minute. Assuming you don't burst, that leaves you about 15 minutes of life to do as you please-- until of course it happens again and you die again.

Numerous zappings are better. Just spawn-kill folks however many times you expect it to happen if this IS intentional (which looks like 72 times? So enjoy the entire level / multiple levels lost)... or just interact more with the people you curse.

Minifie

Defiling a god's shrines on a place that's holy ground? That'll get you a paddling. 

Adrik

Edit: Sorry, spawnkill 288 times. Since it's been going on for 4 ooc days now or whatever.

Yeah... 4 ooc days of getting true-truelocked every 20 minutes is kind of obscene-- even for a god. Aegis' deserter curse was much more interesting-- as you had a sizeable lead up to you withering away (dying), and it wasn't constantly interrupting every aspect of the game, like this appears to be.

The worst part is, it isn't even like a cool message from what I can see. "Your bones snap and you fall to the ground true-locked."

Cooper

@Vasher put in an ISSUE ME about this - it's pretty likely the person who gave this punishment meant to only do it once. That will be the fastest way to get it fixed.

Vasher

@Cooper Thank you. I'll do that

Ictinus

Just chiming in here to say that the issue with the severity of this has now been fixed.

I also want to point out, however, that god curses and punishments are universally in character in nature and almost always come about as a consequence to some action or another that the involved parties have carried out.

This is an OOC forum, so while you are all of course free to gripe about such things, please remember that there are IC avenues for dealing with these situations and most of the time, much of the pain can be avoided simply by swallowing your pride or examining your actions, keeping in mind that Achaean Gods are less customer support and more like the Greek Gods of old (this is more of a general piece of advice than an informed commentary on this specific situation).

Vasher

@Ictinus

I understand the point you are making but saying that it is an issue of pride is factually incorrect. I am a 20 year old Targossian who has previously been informed that I should NOT speak with the Divine, much less Sartan. Even on an OOC level, I'm worried that whatever I might be asked to do will lead to me being removed from my city. This is not a situation a new player or a returning player to achaea who is unfamiliar with the landscape should be put in for putting down a single healing rite. Zero warning, Zero interaction from the Divine. The entire burden is on me?

How was I ever supposed to know that I was to disregard that with zero interaction from the divine and no knowledge at all when this might end? I'm now five days in, I've still been hard and soft locked with hellsight since I received the response that the severity should be lessened

Edit: We've been told to atone for it by a member of Sartan's order, I am being told by my superiors in Targossas not to. This is honestly bullcrap. I can't win in this situation and it's done nothing to add anything positive for ANYONE involved

Astarod

Vasher said:

@Ictinus

I understand the point you are making but saying that it is an issue of pride is factually incorrect. I am a 20 year old Targossian who has previously been informed that I should NOT speak with the Divine, much less Sartan. Even on an OOC level, I'm worried that whatever I might be asked to do will lead to me being removed from my city. This is not a situation a new player or a returning player to achaea who is unfamiliar with the landscape should be put in for putting down a single healing rite. Zero warning, Zero interaction from the Divine. The entire burden is on me?

How was I ever supposed to know that I was to disregard that with zero interaction from the divine and no knowledge at all when this might end? I'm now five days in, I've still been hard and soft locked with hellsight since I received the response that the severity should be lessened

Edit: We've been told to atone for it by a member of Sartan's order, I am being told by my superiors in Targossas not to. This is honestly bullcrap. I can't win in this situation and it's done nothing to add anything positive for ANYONE involved

I'm thinking of an IC response. Don't worry. I'm not gonna leave you out to dry. Though I will say, Sartan should have picked a non-novice target, this was very dumb, especially since you guys supposedly 'value novices'. That is my only complaint so far with this RP path. Otherwise I have no complaints. 

Ictinus said:

Just chiming in here to say that the issue with the severity of this has now been fixed.

I also want to point out, however, that god curses and punishments are universally in character in nature and almost always come about as a consequence to some action or another that the involved parties have carried out.

This is an OOC forum, so while you are all of course free to gripe about such things, please remember that there are IC avenues for dealing with these situations and most of the time, much of the pain can be avoided simply by swallowing your pride or examining your actions, keeping in mind that Achaean Gods are less customer support and more like the Greek Gods of old (this is more of a general piece of advice than an informed commentary on this specific situation).

Yeah but you have to admit that ICly, we're not gonna do what Sartan wants because of who Sartan is. There should be alternate roleplay paths than to just appease an enemy god for doing something that your own god called the entire city to congratulate you on doing the last time you did it. 


TLDR: Don't godcurse novices, pls + ty so we don't feel pressured into acting faster. 

[Deleted User]

There's an inherent disparity in the power dynamic between players and gods. I think it's important for the god to be clear in why they're giving someone a curse and to make sure the curse itself is functioning as intended and reasonable, given how limited the player's options are in responding. Giving someone such a disruptive curse without also communicating to them why they've received it can be very frustrating for the player and can ruin what could otherwise be a fun bit of character development.

Ictinus

That last remark was (as I specifically wrote) not aimed at your scenario but at these scenarios as a whole after several years of accumulated observations. Definitely not personal in this instance, and if you interpreted it that way then I apologise. 

I don't want to delve into the specifics in a public forum either since this is not the place to litigate an ongoing in character situation. I understand that means have been provided for resolution now which should help sort it out in the near future. 

Lenn

Issam said:

There's an inherent disparity in the power dynamic between players and gods. I think it's important for the god to be clear in why they're giving someone a curse and to make sure the curse itself is functioning as intended and reasonable, given how limited the player's options are in responding. Giving someone such a disruptive curse without also communicating to them why they've received it can be very frustrating for the player and can ruin what could otherwise be a fun bit of character development.

Gods are also at the forefront of conflict between cities. It's not as though they're forces of nature that mortals need to avoid, every city's citizens by nature of the game lore act and live in opposition to most other cities' gods.

Astarod

Ictinus said:

That last remark was (as I specifically wrote) not aimed at your scenario but at these scenarios as a whole after several years of accumulated observations. Definitely not personal in this instance, and if you interpreted it that way then I apologise. 

I don't want to delve into the specifics in a public forum either since this is not the place to litigate an ongoing in character situation. I understand that means have been provided for resolution now which should help sort it out in the near future. 

I'm not trying to litigate the specifics, as my only complaints are OOC: Novice being GodCursed, and the current resolution is not possible, since I literally can't do it without doing something treasonous. Again, I trust that Lady Aurora will provide another pathway, or that there are other pathways that exist, but this is very different from Pandora's curse (when I totally deserved to choke down pride). I honestly think you should consider adding GodCurse to the Godfeelings list. 

Vasher

Just so everyone knows, The means provided to remove the curse on my character Vasher is for the character Astarod to publicly apologize in the news. There is literally zero presented actions that my character could do to resolve this. This is after 5 days of a curse so powerful that they've now nerfed it.

Thaisen

Are we going to have to start a protest and riot against Divine Brutality??

Lenn

I'll join in the looting part, I want a shiny new Thoth's Fang from the vault.

[Deleted User]

Making the resolution of one player's punishment dependent on a different player's actions is irresponsible. That pulls even more power out of their hands in controlling the situation. Should Vasher just stop playing until Astarod works out a solution?

Consequences are fun and make the game more interesting, but taking agency away from the players involved should be done thoughtfully. If I were a new player and found out that I was stuck essentially unable to play for a RL week because of something someone else did, I would... probably find a new game.

Minifie

Or just don’t bitch when you do something dumb against a god and the god responds, and then make up continual shields as to why it’s somehow other people’s faults based on (convenient reason for specific instance). Stick to defiling dormant gods if you don’t want divine repercussions. Figure out how to resolve it or QQ on forums more, your choice.

@Issam astarod put the novice into the position? Sounds completely reasonable a response, but I know it’s upsetting when actions have consequences.

Saonji

Minifie said:

@Issam astarod put the novice into the position? Sounds completely reasonable a response, but I know it’s upsetting when actions have consequences.

If you're punishing someone, the one being punished should be the one who has to do something to remove the punishment. Not rely on the willingness of a third person, regardless of if they're the reason.

Accomplices to real-life crimes don't get a different sentence just because the main offender was compliant. They get treated differently based on their own behaviour, and their own compliance.

I'm not sure how you can legitimately defend such a ridiculous curse, in response to such benign actions. I'm with Issam; I'd like to be the one to resolve things that happen to me, thanks.

Lenn

If you did this as a player, killing someone every 20 minutes they're logged in, I very much hope you'd get shrubbed. This is very clearly ignorance or malice, and ignorant bug abuse will ALSO get you shrubbed, so it's laughable to defend this.

Jurixe

I'm not going to comment too much on this, but yeah, Divine temples have always been extremely sensitive and I think it's worth thinking a bit more ICly about why the people that helped got cursed. I can think of a very plausible answer why.

The fix is very simple and is far from anything that would be considered treasonous, unless we have very different definitions of it. It presents an interesting IC personal dilemma, however, depending on how you play your character.

Saonji

Jurixe said:

I'm not going to comment too much on this, but yeah, Divine temples have always been extremely sensitive and I think it's worth thinking a bit more ICly about why the people that helped got cursed. I can think of a very plausible answer why.

I'm pretty sure nobody is questioning why they were cursed. They're questioning why, to get it removed, they have to rely on the main instigator as opposed to being able to get it removed themselves.

Also when the one who was punished so severely, seemingly wasn't even at the temple to begin with... Yeah that's sketch.

Astarod

Saonji said:

Jurixe said:

I'm not going to comment too much on this, but yeah, Divine temples have always been extremely sensitive and I think it's worth thinking a bit more ICly about why the people that helped got cursed. I can think of a very plausible answer why.

I'm pretty sure nobody is questioning why they were cursed. They're questioning why, to get it removed, they have to rely on the main instigator as opposed to being able to get it removed themselves.

@Minifie  Well, tbh, neither of them did anything in the actions that led to this curse (not present, not offering to defile, didn't use their corpses for it). I mean, RP-wise, it makes sense. The curse Sartan gave Astarod is well thought out- friends suffer for his actions, mostly because Sartan knows I'm masochistic enough to not care if I'm cursed myself (because I have been a good many times). My literal only problem is that Vasher is new to the game, so maybe Halos would have been a better choice. (sorry @Halos) since he was actually there. 

Saonji

Astarod said:

The curse Sartan gave Astarod is well thought out- friends suffer for his actions

Yes and shooting homeless, wheelchair-bound people in the face with "totally non-lethal" bullets, in response to a protest they're not even participating in, is also well-thought-out.

Ictinus

Aight, this has run its course I think.