STR vs Knuckles

Aliandor

Hey there,

Wondering if anyone has any experience with the difference between getting level 1 strength Artifact compared to level 1 knuckles?

Just asking in terms of raw damage increase.

Iaxus

Strength should be better since knuckles don't affect kick damage, and kicks are ~50% of the damage from your combo.

Aliandor

@Iaxus

Come to think of it, I can test a +1 str increase with a Jera rune - so I should (hopefully) be able to get an answer.  I'll need to make sure I account for damage mitigation variables though so that I'm getting more accurate numbers.

Cooper

Knuckles are a cherry on top artefact, strength will increase your damage considerably more.

Aliandor

Thanks @Cooper

Andraste

Don't knuckles improve the limb damage done by punches, and not just the raw physical damage from punches?

Antonius

Andraste said:

Don't knuckles improve the limb damage done by punches, and not just the raw physical damage from punches?

They used to, as far as I know, and I'm not aware of that changing. Whether they increase it enough to actually make a difference (i.e. reduce the number of hits needed to break) is something else entirely, and would vary from fight to fight.

Strength has the benefit of increasing the damage on (almost) all of your Tekura abilities, but also still being useful if you decide to switch to Shikudo or another (strength using) class.

Iocun

They do change the limb damage, yes. It will only make a difference in some specific cases though.

That being said, I'm not sure if knuckles currently even quite work correctly, as the increase in damage they deal doesn't appear the one advertised. Brass knuckles are supposed to do 25% more damage, but they only seem to do a bit over 9%. I haven't done any detailed testing, so I haven't bugged it yet, as it might be that somewhere in the damage calculation they -do- increase a damage variable by 25%, but that this is later mitigated by other factors.

Atalkez

Iocun said:

They do change the limb damage, yes. It will only make a difference in some specific cases though.

That being said, I'm not sure if knuckles currently even quite work correctly, as the increase in damage they deal doesn't appear the one advertised. Brass knuckles are supposed to do 25% more damage, but they only seem to do a bit over 9%. I haven't done any detailed testing, so I haven't bugged it yet, as it might be that somewhere in the damage calculation they -do- increase a damage variable by 25%, but that this is later mitigated by other factors.

Hmm, get a test subject and remove all mitigation factors? Armor, algiz, etz - make the baseline defenseless, even, and go from there? I think that may yield the results you need.

Namino

Knuckles also have the inadvertent side effect of changing the ratios between your kicks and punches. It's been a decade and a half since I was knuckleless, but at least back then, one kick was worth two punches evenly. With knuckles, the ratio descends deep into the wild world of fractions (at least a lot deeper than 1/2). If you're trying to figure out breakpoints on your own, that can be incredibly...

Irritating.

From a PvP standpoint, I don't think I've ever killed someone since coming back and been like "wow, good thing I had knuckles!", and that's with me owning level 3s, let alone level 1s. All my confirms come off of backbreaker or scythe, the former of which is very highly dependent on strength (l1 torso and 18 str can confirm off a triple against most people without bruised ribs). For PvE, I've never figured out how much faster I am with my knuckles on.

Vote strength.

Cooper

A kick has never been exactly equal to two punches, with or without knuckles. People just did that because it was easier and worked "most" of the time.

Mizik

Knuckles only afford you faster prep, which is pointless if your finishers don't kill. Strength is the largest modifier for Tekura finishers.