Occultist - Relationship with chaos

Morwyn

I'm trying to figure out the nature of an Occultist's relationship with Chaos, per se. Is it possible for them to see both Chaos and Achaea as necessary halves of a greater whole? Is their relationship with the Chaos Lords necessarily subservient? I'm mostly wondering if it's possible to play an Occultist with some benevolent aspects, is all.

Archaeon

That's an interesting question. And your answer will depend on who you ask. I think it would be hard to do a benevolent occultist while still trying to advance chaos' goals

Accipiter

Humans and the advances they brought only exist because of the Rape of Maya. Sapience is clearly the most advanced plane in terms of science, engineering and locations of divine interest. It is pretty easy to equate a devotion to Chaos to a devotion to the advancement of Creation, with a 'Chaos must exist for change to happen' vibe.

Cooper

Accipiter said:

Sapience is clearly the most advanced plane in terms of science, engineering and locations of divine interest.

This part is not something we can know is true. 

Sophi

Everybody in achaea thinks they're the good guys. 

Jovolo

No they don't

Farrah

I would say you can play in any faction with "benevolent aspects" because, like Sophi said, every faction pretty much thinks they're the good guys. I think a lot of people would probably agree with the notion that Chaos and Creation are both necessary IC. There are also Occultists who don't view themselves as subservient to the Chaos Lords, though whether everyone else accepts that is another matter. As an Occultist, the Chaos Lords control access to one of your skills so that will always be a factor in play.

Caelan

True.  Even Mhaldor thinks they are the good guys by advancing their views on Strength.

Cooper

Mhaldor does not think they/we are the good guys.

Torinn

I've heard people justify it as "there are lots of powerful creatures wanting to destroy us out there.  Our way is the only way we will be strong enough to survive!"

Caelan

I mean..   FFS. Cooper you don't HAVE to argue with everything anyone posts.  It isn't a slight against Mhaldor.  And yes, I have had a Mhaldorian or 3 over the years and that IS how it was explained to me so...*shrug*

Aegoth

Mdor def the good guys. We didn't ally with the Tsol'teth

Taryius

When people say "Everyone thinks they are the good guys" it means  "Everyone thinks that what they are doing is right". Mhaldor falls into that latter description.

[Deleted User]

Aegoth said:

Mdor def the good guys. We didn't ally with the Tsol'teth

You did ally with someone who was arguably worse, though.

To answer the question: Occultists are not inherently subservient to the Chaos Lords. You literally dominate them into giving you pacts. Being enemied to Ashtan will make it harder to get those pacts, but still not impossible. Accipiter's basically right with how Chaos is viewed by Occultists/followers of Chaos: It's a catalyst for change, without it Creation would stagnate.

Asmodron

Occultism is based on a study and scholarship into Chaos. Not technically aligned. No being actually rules over Chaos, though there have been deities now and in the past that 'aligned' themselves to it or represented it.

Domination is based on contacting and making deals with entities of the Chaos Plane. Do not confuse the Chaos Plane with the realm of Chaos itself. These entities have their own goals as well as schemes for Sapience and even Creation. Ashtan in this case is aligned with the goals of these entities, rather than 'Chaos' itself. Chaos doesnt really have a goal, it's just Chaos.

Taryius

Asmodron said:

Occultism is based on a study and scholarship into Chaos. Not technically aligned. No being actually rules over Chaos, though there have been deities now and in the past that 'aligned' themselves to it or represented it.

Domination is based on contacting and making deals with entities of the Chaos Plane. Do not confuse the Chaos Plane with the realm of Chaos itself. These entities have their own goals as well as schemes for Sapience and even Creation. Ashtan in this case is aligned with the goals of these entities, rather than 'Chaos' itself. Chaos doesnt really have a goal, it's just Chaos.

This is false, on multiple accounts. There is a Diety that rules over Chaos, His name is  Lord Babel. He was specifically birthed by Sarapis to claim Dominion of Chaos, some characters may want to claim that he is not the proper ruler of Chaos, or that his realm has somewhat transcended his original duty, but he was still created with the intention of being Patron to Chaos. 

Over the years Ashtan has more, and more started to align themselves with the idiology and goal of the Chaos Court, not Babel/Chaos.

And Chaos does have a goal, at least a rudimentary one. To spread, expand, consume, conquer or whatever you want to call it. 

Torrent

And what is the difference between Babel and the Chaos lords?

Jiraishin

This would be a great IC conversation but it's kind of weird on forums.

I think the original poster's question about "is it possible to play this like X" has been fairly strongly answered in the affirmative, no matter what the true nature of Chaos in Achaea is. 

Taryius

Torrent said:

And what is the difference between Babel and the Chaos lords?

I'm sure someone from Ashtan could explain more accurately, but what I know is the Chaos Lords see Chaos as a catalyst for change and progression, a necessity in the world. Along with a the standard "we also want to rule said world."

As for Babel and Chaos, well all we know is Chaos wants to consume, spread and conquer. It's why the unnameable Horror broke into our world, its why Discord and Entropy did their thing. It just wants to break out of the part of existance where Sarapis locked it away. Babel believes this to be innevitable, and undeniable truth that will come to pass.

Babel also believes this all consuming oblivion and void caused by chaos is the perfect state of creation, that this is what we all want/it will be beautiful/etc etc. This obsession part probably caused by his centuries spent watching at the precipice between chaos and our world, and just gazing into the void of Chaos for years upon years, hence why he has garnered the accolade of "The Mad God".


Edit: Though as Jiraishin said, this is probably better found IG or by digging through the mythos, which is an excellent read if you havent.

Asmodron

Taryius said:

Asmodron said:

Occultism is based on a study and scholarship into Chaos. Not technically aligned. No being actually rules over Chaos, though there have been deities now and in the past that 'aligned' themselves to it or represented it.

Domination is based on contacting and making deals with entities of the Chaos Plane. Do not confuse the Chaos Plane with the realm of Chaos itself. These entities have their own goals as well as schemes for Sapience and even Creation. Ashtan in this case is aligned with the goals of these entities, rather than 'Chaos' itself. Chaos doesnt really have a goal, it's just Chaos.

This is false, on multiple accounts. There is a Diety that rules over Chaos, His name is  Lord Babel. He was specifically birthed by Sarapis to claim Dominion of Chaos, some characters may want to claim that he is not the proper ruler of Chaos, or that his realm has somewhat transcended his original duty, but he was still created with the intention of being Patron to Chaos. 

Over the years Ashtan has more, and more started to align themselves with the idiology and goal of the Chaos Court, not Babel/Chaos.

And Chaos does have a goal, at least a rudimentary one. To spread, expand, consume, conquer or whatever you want to call it. 

Incorrect.

Chaos is a realm alongside the realm of Creation. The gods each hold some domain over an aspect in creation, none of Chaos itself for Chaos was not a fundamental part. As seen here:

So, he (Ayar) was forced to cause Entropy and Discord to disperse across Creation, adding chaos to it.


As per the lore, after the War of Chaos, Babel was created:

Sarapis' first act was to create a new god to be the patron of those who would seek chaos: Babel.

The purpose was to represent in creation those now seeking the aspect spread within it of chaos. Babel was put as a guardian between Creation and Chaos but was driven mad by it and now is a herald of a doom to come. You'll find several interesting easter eggs in game about this transformation.

Finally Chaos does not have a goal, for that is the fundamental idea of Chaos. It simply is. To give it purpose gives it structure and thus makes it not. You'll find many a books on the topic in-game.

I suggest reviewing the Lore, you'll find quite the interesting read.

Enjoy

Lorath

At the time of Creation, he created two realms. One, the realm we know, was filled with a multitude of planes and universes, each with its own set of physical and immutable laws. The other was a realm of pure chaos and was anathema to Creation. None save Ayar himself are certain why he created this unholy twin, but some of humanity's more unorthodox philosophers speculate that our realm's existence is somehow dependent on the other.

Torinn

I always thought it was the stuff used to mold Creation.  Like forging a blade out of iron, you need heat. /Forumrp

[Deleted User]

Sure are a lot of people ignoring the purpose of the thread, and not actually answering OP's question.

Caelan

Pyori said:

Sure are a lot of people ignoring the purpose of the thread, and not actually answering OP's question.

Fridays are the best day. Duh

Kuririn

Best way to learn what kind of play an Occultist is capable of, benevolent or otherwise, is to join Ashtan.