People following people (change the line order)

Iocun

I hope this hasn't been brought up before, but I didn't see it on the List, so here:

When people follow other people and you're standing in a room and see them walking by, the leading person always is named last, after the people being lead by her/him. I never quite understood this, as it goes against what your character would actually see (first seeing the leading person arrive, then the people following).

So, can we please change this....

Clementius arrives, following Kastalia.

Kastalia arrives from the up.

Clementius leaves, following Kastalia.

Kastalia leaves to the northeast.

to this...

Kastalia arrives from the up.

Clementius arrives, following Kastalia.

Kastalia leaves to the northeast.

Clementius leaves, following Kastalia.

?

Melodie

Why did you have to use two very emotional names?!

Anyway, agreed and such.

Iocun

Melodie said:

Why did you have to use two very emotional names?! Anyway, agreed and such.

I thought that it might lead to Clementius and Kastalia being brought back, just so my suggested line could actually appear as written!

Rispok

A possible concern (that needs addressing also) is how this works for pve. There are some oddities, unless they have been fixed, about following people into a room with aggressive creatures. I think what Iocun has suggested should be added in, but also, the person who enters the room first should be the target of attacks, instead of the 'last' person, i.e. those who follow.

Because it's a bigger issue, I don't know that it's a simple fix. I do suggest it be fixed, though.

Iocun

Not quite sure how the PvE thing works, since I have so little bashing experience (and even less group bashing experience), but I'd find it best if the person to be first attacked was random anyways, to minimize the ease of gaming the system.

Rispok

Iocun said:

Not quite sure how the PvE thing works, since I have so little bashing experience (and even less group bashing experience), but I'd find it best if the person to be first attacked was random anyways, to minimize the ease of gaming the system.

Random would be better than what it currently is. Unless I am mistaken, things that are aggro yet team (not manticores) will strike either the first person to attack, or the first person to enter the room, meaning not the person who is leading the group. Usually this is a non-issue, because if you're leading the group you walk in as you press your bashing attack, so they swam you. There are a small number of denizens that manage to attack before that, though, and they will never go for the person leading the group, but always the followers.

Katzchen

I've noticed that. It really sucks, because generally the strongest/most experienced person is leading, leaving the weaker following person even more vulnerable.

Penwize

I actually prefer it in its current order due to it revealing things easier in spam.  In a train of 50 people (or any sum larger than your current window), you can instantly pick out who the the leader is by looking at the bottom line, as opposed to scrolling up to the top and looking there.

Favonius

@Penwize the name of the leader is mentioned in every line! Not too hard to have your client pick that out and highlight it or echo it back to you.

If group combat spam about who is following whom is an issue, it might be a good idea to gag the follow lines and have the client condense the information into a readable format.

I agree with the OP because I find the current order jarring compared to how those lines would naturally and logically be written. Better for RP, and implications for group combat can be solved with client-side scripting - though if users thought it was a real concern it could be made a CONFIGurable setting?

Tvistor

I have a weird feeling that this change requires deep delving into the way follow and entering rooms work.

Lynara

This is a much larger issue, as it affects things such as mindnet/alertness/etc. For these sorts of senses, the last one that is noticed is the one they were all following. Hopefully this can be fixed!

Rispok

Lynara said:

This is a much larger issue

Iocun

I never said it would be a small, simple thing. It might be, it might not, I have no idea (nor does anyone else here, for sure). But it is something that is very often encountered and always bothersome, so if it can be fixed, it might be worth to look into it.

Vadimuses

I agree with Penwize - the current way is preferable since you can see who the leader is.

Santar

Rispok said:

A possible concern (that needs addressing also) is how this works for pve. There are some oddities, unless they have been fixed, about following people into a room with aggressive creatures. I think what Iocun has suggested should be added in, but also, the person who enters the room first should be the target of attacks, instead of the 'last' person, i.e. those who follow.

Because it's a bigger issue, I don't know that it's a simple fix. I do suggest it be fixed, though.

This just isn't true. Follow order doesn't have anything to do with the order aggro denizens attack in. They actually attack the most inactive person, ie, the person that hasn't issued a command in the longest period of time.  A lot of times the people that haven't issued a command in the longest time are the people following, but correlation shouldn't be confused with causation.

 

To test this, just follow someone into a room of manticores while spamming "x". They will attack the person you're following rather than you, as long as you did a command more recently than the person you're following, and before the manticores start attacking.

 

An example to illustrate my point:

 

I've actually gotten people killed through this mechanic before. I've been bashing with smaller people, and followed them, told them to lead me into the manticores so they would attack me first, but I had forgotten about this mechanic and was spamming attacks, and of course, as soon as I followed into the room and attacked, the manticores all attacked the person I was following rather than me(the follower), because it had been longer since they had used a command. So if you intend to manipulate denizens in this way, the follower actually has to wait(remain inactive) until the denizens actually leash and start attacking them before they do anything.

Cardan

Santar said:

Rispok said:

A possible concern (that needs addressing also) is how this works for pve. There are some oddities, unless they have been fixed, about following people into a room with aggressive creatures. I think what Iocun has suggested should be added in, but also, the person who enters the room first should be the target of attacks, instead of the 'last' person, i.e. those who follow.

Because it's a bigger issue, I don't know that it's a simple fix. I do suggest it be fixed, though.

This just isn't true. Follow order doesn't have anything to do with the order aggro denizens attack in. They actually attack the most inactive person, ie, the person that hasn't issued a command in the longest period of time.  A lot of times the people that haven't issued a command in the longest time are the people following, but correlation shouldn't be confused with causation.

 

To test this, just follow someone into a room of manticores while spamming "x". They will attack the person you're following rather than you, as long as you did a command more recently than the person you're following, and before the manticores start attacking.

 

An example to illustrate my point:

 

I've actually gotten people killed through this mechanic before. I've been bashing with smaller people, and followed them, told them to lead me into the manticores so they would attack me first, but I had forgotten about this mechanic and was spamming attacks, and of course, as soon as I followed into the room and attacked, the manticores all attacked the person I was following rather than me(the follower), because it had been longer since they had used a command. So if you intend to manipulate denizens in this way, the follower actually has to wait(remain inactive) until the denizens actually leash and start attacking them before they do anything.

Berserk denizens don't care who the first or last person to do something was when determining whom to attack.

As for the OP, I'll have to dig through the code to work out why it was done the way it was, but we do process followers (players and denizens) before moving the player themselves.

Santar

You can get as big of a denied sticker as you want, but if you test it in a practical application, it'll work as I documented.

 

I've already tested and seen it work that way on numerous occasions, and you've shown no proof to the contrary.

I'll post a log proving my point when I get time later. Unless it's been changed around since I last tested it, then it works exactly as I described.

Tvistor

Cardan vs Santar, round 1, fight.

Alyssea

Santar said:

You can get as big of a denied sticker as you want, but if you test it in a practical application, it'll work as I documented.

I've already tested and seen it work that way on numerous occasions, and you've shown no proof to the contrary.

I'll post a log proving my point when I get time later. Unless it's been changed around since I last tested it, then it works exactly as I described.

Lol. When you're one of the coders and can actually look at how it works, you don't need to show proof to convince the lowly mortals. I'm sure you didn't set up the exact same situation each time you tested, which means any number of variables other than who entered the last command could have affected your results.

Panpardus

We was hunting in the UW the other day and I found that I was targeted first more often than not in a large group, not sure why, but I was walking around with my do repeat hunting alias for most of it, and I wasn't usually the first to hit either.

Bonko

If there was a picture associated with someone following me (or my birdy), this would be it:

Daslin

@Bonko are they on a treadmill? It looks like they are, or her feet are creeping me out and moving backwards somehow.