Worth it?

Panawen

Hail and Greetings!
As the title suggests, would it be worth it returning to Sapience for me?

Firstly, this is not my main character that I played, though I hang on to 'ol Panawen for sentimental reasons.
To put the question in context, I was never a combatant and still do not feel the call to arms. I have no interest in learning to code anything apart from the very basic stuff. I also exclusively used the Nexus client and will do so again should I awaken.
Due to this I was never really part of the action and just kinda flew under the radar.

I am by nature a very quiet person who does not always enjoy approaching others randomly (yes, even in a fantasy setting), which makes me seem kinda rude or uniterested, which I was not, as the majority of the time I am just a laid back dude that enjoys a laugh.
Basically, I come across as aloof untill I get to know someone.
Also, there seems to be this general belief that if a player is always alone or quiet etc etc, then he is only here for some...well more carnal persuits. Again, not so, well for me atleast.

Another issue (as in pet peeve) I had was progressing in my chosen houses. The novice stuff was pretty basic, but I felt some requirements for promotion to be unneeded. 
Almost as if all paths pushed, even passively, towards combat orientated goals. For someone more interested in exploring, history etc. having to pass basic combat tests felt unnecessary. Yes I know it was to enable me to protect myself better and not that difficult to do, but hey I was not planning on storming Mhaldor on my own any time soon. And I didn't like the idea of paths being closed to me just because I didn't like combat and thus couldn't upgrade my house rank.....I'm stubborn that way.

Anyway, this seems to have nearly gone the way of the rant, which I did not intend at all.
I merely wanted to know if there is still a place for me in Achaea since the call to awaken has been getting stronger by the day.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and even suggestions on which city, house, class you think would suite me should I return.

Hail Sartan

Archaeon

That's not a question anyone but you can answer, broheim. 

Panawen

Archaeon said:

That's not a question anyone but you can answer, broheim. 

Mentor...Is that you?

He had similarly cryptic answers to my paragraph long questions.
Though, then as now, they were propably correct.

Caelan

Archaeon is correct.  You will have to come back, try it, and see for yourself. No one can answer if it is 'worth it' for you.

Cailin

I will say, though, that there are plenty of non-combat options in Achaea. If your house has too many combat tasks, perhaps you picked the wrong house. I believe all cities have both a combat-focused house and a non-combat house.

Iloisee

It looks like Panawen is a Legate, which is the combat-focused house of Mhaldor. In general, you will likely experience combat one way or another in Mhaldor, because all are required to defend against incursions, and there are a lot of incursions. If your goal is to keep combat to an absolute minimum in Mhaldor, you're better off joining the Insidium, which is more focused toward information gathering of all varieties (exploration, history included). That said, the Insidium also rewards combat proficiency and the Mhaldorian ethos emphasizes mastery of all aspects of mortal life. I just don't think you'd need to do very much combat to advance in the Insidium compared to the Legates.

In case I'm wrong, I'll tag a couple Legates for their input like @Minifie and @Davok.

There are other cities where you can be a complete noncom... Most of them, probably. But, y'know, they don't have Sartan. Yet. 😉

Jiraishin

I play a quiet character. It can be done. 

Kiet

Iloisee said:

It looks like Panawen is a Legate, which is the combat-focused house of Mhaldor.

No This is not true, do not perpetuate this pls. Both Houses are very much designed to have both combat and non-combat ways to advance, on purpose. There's an entire combat path in the Insidium! There's a speaking path in the Legates! We redid both houses partly because people kept confusing the legates as the pk house and insidium as the rp house, and it is very much not what we're trying to do (and the HELP HOUSE files for each house both try to mention both combat and non).

Instead, what differentiates the houses is their approach to evil (subtle vs not) and their non-combat specializations. The Legates do all sorts of stuff related to being loud and in your face like public speaking, sermonizing, debating, all that sorta stuff, while the Insidium is more introverted with information gathering and ritualism.

Panawen

Thank you for the quick replies, they are appreciated and quite correct in that only I can decide if it's time to come home.
In retrospect "worth it" was a poor choice of words for my question. I always enjoyed waking and spent many joyful years here hunting and exploring, sometimes just reading scrolls for days on end.
 
But, and this is where people always deflected and denied, the reality was that combat is king, those who did not engage in it did not get very far and even the most quiet of us have ambitions, thus I got bored, frustrated and slept.

Again, thank you for your time. 

Kiet

Panawen said:

Thank you for the quick replies, they are appreciated and quite correct in that only I can decide if it's time to come home.
In retrospect "worth it" was a poor choice of words for my question. I always enjoyed waking and spent many joyful years here hunting and exploring, sometimes just reading scrolls for days on end.
 
But, and this is where people always deflected and denied, the reality was that combat is king, those who did not engage in it did not get very far and even the most quiet of us have ambitions, thus I got bored, frustrated and slept.

Again, thank you for your time. 

The literal leader of Mhaldor is someone who has very little interest in combat, so this is patently untrue. She defends the city when necessary and sometimes comes to raids, but no one would tell you Ysela got where she is through combat.

Of course, you're expected (but note: not required) to at least hold your snipe aliases when Mhaldor gets raided every once in a while, but Mhaldor is specifically a military dictatorship. Beyond city defence, no one cares if you don't know how to pk a level 10 newbie. Other cities expect even less, of course.

Panawen

Just for a quick clarification.

Panawen is merely a old friend I keep around for sentimental reasons. Not who I usually was.

Cooper

Panawen said:

But, and this is where people always deflected and denied, the reality was that combat is king, those who did not engage in it did not get very far and even the most quiet of us have ambitions, thus I got bored, frustrated and slept.

Again, thank you for your time. 

I would disagree with this.

Iloisee, Ailea, Lyniara, Ysela, Stheno, Melodie are all recent leaders in Mhaldor that don't really like combat, but do it anyway (Ailea might not belong in this group since she actively participates in raids and group fights, but I don't think that's what she's really interested in). We also have a lot of up-and-comers that aren't hugely into PK.

There's plenty more in Sartan's order that are complete non-combatants, and they do just fine.

What reason do you think there is for you to say 'you only go far if you're a combatant', but we (Mhaldor) can prove that isn't true?

If what you actually mean is "I 100% refused to do combat in Mhaldor, and I didn't go very far" - then yeah, that is going to happen. Everyone in Mhaldor is expected to participate in city defense. If your expectation is that you never, ever have to fight - then you've chosen the wrong city.

Panawen

Perhaps the issue was that no one actually listened when someone spoke?
I was not Mhaldorian when I stopped playing. 

Jiraishin

Targ here. Outside Mhaldor there's even less push for combat if you don't want to go that route.

I think it was the "Hail Sartan" at the end of your first post that confused people. 

Panawen

Jiraishin said:

I think it was the "Hail Sartan" at the end of your first post that confused people. 

Could very well be. Old Panawen was Mhaldorian so thought it fitting.

Iloisee

@Kiet My bad. But my point was that you can totally advance without being a combatant in the Insidium, sounds like you can in the Legates as well?

And @Panawen your past experiences may have been totally legit, but that's not what Mhaldor today is like. it's a very engaged and social group of people, and very easy to get involved If you just reach out.

Kiet

Panawen said:

Perhaps the issue was that no one actually listened when someone spoke?
I was not Mhaldorian when I stopped playing. 

Then your complaint makes even less sense. If you can advance to the level of becoming city leader with no real interest in combat in the single military city in the game, then obviously you can do so elsewhere. The only city that's anywhere near as militant (insofar as people are expected to contribute a little) is Targossas, and they're a very relaxed about it. Other cities regularly have like <50% of population show up to defend during raids and no one cares.

Panawen

Kiet said:

Panawen said:

Perhaps the issue was that no one actually listened when someone spoke?
I was not Mhaldorian when I stopped playing. 

Then your complaint makes even less sense. If you can advance to the level of becoming city leader with no real interest in combat in the single military city in the game, then obviously you can do so elsewhere. The only city that's anywhere near as militant (insofar as people are expected to contribute a little) is Targossas, and they're a very relaxed about it. Other cities regularly have like <50% of population show up to defend during raids and no one cares.

Perhaps I did not put things correctly.

As I remember (and I can be wrong here), certain paths or specialities could only be done after becoming a full house/city member? (Cr5/Hr5?) In order to be promoted to a full house member you had to go through certain stages.
The final stages in most houses generally had some requirements of being tested in curing, defences etc, usually done in a arena. (Thus why in my original post I said "...even passively towards combat orientated ..." While I fully understand that these are usefull tools to have and I would even go so far as to agree with the concept, I don't think that it should be a requirement for advancement, unless specificaly interested in pk or raid defence. 

I know this sounds trivial to 99% of the players here, but it is still what I believe.
Perhaps others felt a similar way and just left without saying anything?

The part about "combat is king" I mentioned in another reply also holds more truth than some would admit.
Even though one does not have to participate, it was strongly encouraged, often and sometimes loudly.

But, I honestly did not want to argue or complain (oops) and am grateful to everyone who replied.
So for now let me say farewell

In Strength
Hail Sartan

 

Iloisee

It sounds like you got the answers you were looking for (hopefully). I have heard discussion before that some cities USED to require certain combat things like required raiding and this was changed. However, as for curing, I assume everyone will test that at some point. It's to prevent newbies from going out and dying to every mob outside Manara or sending sad CTs saying "I'm blind and both my legs are broken, what do". 😁

Jiraishin

Since Panawen has said farewell, the following response is mainly aimed at future players who might read this thread and form opinions based on it.

1. I was a two-time Mhaldorian HL with no curing system in the days before serverside. And now that Achaea has free serverside curing all that most non-PK paths require is that you hit CURING ON. The thing about most Houses requiring arena testing for full membership is so far outside my experience that I'm comfortable flatly saying it's not true. I can also say that the only Targossian House that requires it is the House specifically built around PK.

2. Some paths or specialties WILL require tests of this kind. Those are PK oriented paths. You don't have to take them. You can be a member of a city's ruling council without taking them. I kind of wish that last weren't true, but it is, and non-PK types should find that encouraging.

Cooper

Panawen said:

Kiet said:

Panawen said:

Perhaps the issue was that no one actually listened when someone spoke?
I was not Mhaldorian when I stopped playing. 

Then your complaint makes even less sense. If you can advance to the level of becoming city leader with no real interest in combat in the single military city in the game, then obviously you can do so elsewhere. The only city that's anywhere near as militant (insofar as people are expected to contribute a little) is Targossas, and they're a very relaxed about it. Other cities regularly have like <50% of population show up to defend during raids and no one cares.

Perhaps I did not put things correctly.

As I remember (and I can be wrong here), certain paths or specialities could only be done after becoming a full house/city member? (Cr5/Hr5?) In order to be promoted to a full house member you had to go through certain stages.
The final stages in most houses generally had some requirements of being tested in curing, defences etc, usually done in a arena. (Thus why in my original post I said "...even passively towards combat orientated ..." While I fully understand that these are usefull tools to have and I would even go so far as to agree with the concept, I don't think that it should be a requirement for advancement, unless specificaly interested in pk or raid defence. 

I know this sounds trivial to 99% of the players here, but it is still what I believe.
Perhaps others felt a similar way and just left without saying anything?

The part about "combat is king" I mentioned in another reply also holds more truth than some would admit.
Even though one does not have to participate, it was strongly encouraged, often and sometimes loudly.

But, I honestly did not want to argue or complain (oops) and am grateful to everyone who replied.
So for now let me say farewell

In Strength
Hail Sartan

 

I've spent some time thinking about what you've written, and I think I've discovered the root problem here.

Your expectations are not reasonable. If you have a problem with the final stage in house progression requiring you to be able to put up basic defences, and have basic curing - then you are 100% expecting something unreasonable.

The good news is that to be able to pass a combat test, all you have to do is configure your curing one time. CURING ON will get you started and that will handle most of everything for you. This can be done by someone who has never fought before, and will take you however long it takes to type CURING ON and hit enter, and then you might have to do CURING SIP ON, CURING AFFLICTIONS ON, CURING DEFENCES ON - I'm not sure if they default to on or not (there's a lot more stuff you can customize, but to pass a basic curing test it is not necessary).

Elisella

Most combat tests (if you're not going down a firmly combat path) show that you know CURING ON, you have appropriate curatives, and (sometimes) you know how to help in group defense.

The first one is done through help files. The second, through a bit of ratting or generous city mates. The third is an opportunity to learn and introduce yourself to your citymates. 

Mhaldor may be a bit of an outlier because they expect some sort of effort in city defense from nearly everyone, but there is something every class can do to help out at every skill level as well as a bunch of people willing to take the time to assist.

Melodie

Need to start up our newbie web tattoo army again.

Ysela

I know how to kill serpents, @Kiet

Cooper

Ysela said:

I know how to kill serpents, @Kiet

speak mhaldor
tell Proficy See to it that Insid'ari Kiet is slain immediately.

Kiet

I feel threatened.... I was just pointing out Ysela is wonderful in many other ways than holocausting the battlefield!

Aegoth

Ysela got a Destroy off on Florentino. Proudest dad

Keorin

Worth noting is that every house has a somewhat different advancement setup. Some aren't reasonable, or ask people to do things that they're not very interested for no good reason, that much is true. I have no idea what house the OP is talking about, so it's hard to speak to these specific frustrations, but I'm sure you could find a place that doesn't have the sort of things you want to avoid.

Though in the case of curing tests and such, the goal isn't to push combat, or anything like that (believe me, I run a combat house, so I do a lot of actually pushing combat). Usually, those sorts of things are put in tasks just to make sure people know that the built in curing system exists and how it works, so that you don't die to random aggressive enemies. CURING ON with a basic set of curatives should basically have you covered, for most of that.

Penwize

I'd like add here, just doing CURING ON might not be the best course for newbies.  CURING SETUP then CURING ON will set up server-side curing with all sorts of defaults.  This is useful for not just PvP, but for PvE stuff too.  Browsing the options offered when you look at just CURING is probably a good idea too.  Knowing how to manipulate curing is actually a really valuable skill, especially if you plan to eventually take on some of the harder PvE encounters, forays, or honours mobs.  Knowing it exists and how to use it is pretty important, I think.

Panawen

Greetings, 

@Jiraishin apart from basically calling me a liar, you have made some good points, and I thank you for taking the time to reply at all.
Now, please do not think I am angry or offended by this as it may be true from your point of view.
Also as far as I remember you had to be atleast a Troni to become even an aide in Mhaldor? I would be interested to know what the pk count is for the ruling council members, even the mostly noncom ones you mentioned.

@Cooper, I sat back and read through this thread again and think you probably hit the nail on the head. Indeed my expectations were / are not reasonable and have no problem admitting that there was fault on my part. I will definitely have to work on this aspect of my character should I return.
However I still stick to the believe that such things should not be a requirement but a choice. 
I understand the concept of CURING ON, SIP etc etc. However some of the minerals/herbs etc and equipment you are required to have wil hardly,if ever, be used against the low level, mostly non affliction causing, mobs that novices come across, so why make it a requirement to have?

@Penwize, Thanks for some helpfull info.....oh and for being a legend!

Now, the biggest realizations that I came to due to this discussion is this.

1. Achaeans are still a epic bunch of people always willing to give advice.
                                                      and
2. The biggest mistake I made was actually not staying in Mhaldor it seems.

Davok

We require novices to buy curatives and learn to use them so when you're bashing something besides pixies you're not begging us over HNT or CT to come save you when you're double arm broken and can't outrift, or paralysed with no magnesium. Or just die outright to voyria.

Denizens start delivering dangerous afflictions a lot sooner than you think. Easily as early as the 40s or 50s. And it's not just paralysis and broken arms. Stupidity, dizziness, blackout, and plenty others are common too.