Minimal Investment Classes

Jovolo

Hey!

I'm wondering what the current state of the classes is with regards to being able to fight without artefacts? Let's assume Dragon so should have a reasonable health pool to work with and tri-trans, how would you rank the classes? At the least maybe a top 3-5 you'd recommend for someone beginning to enter the pvp scene. 

I've heard Depthswalker and Psion are good, what do you all think?

Atalkez

Alchemist, DW, Psion and to a lesser extent Apostate still. All the elemental lords follow this scheme too, with minimal artefact options.

Farrah

I'm not 100% decided on the order but I tried:

Shikudo Monk (requires 4 instead of 3 trans skills though)
Shaman
Jester
Depthswalker
Alchemist
Apostate
Psion

The first three are harder to play than the latter four. All of these classes don't really need offensive artefacts for anything (though aldar talisman seems highly desirable for alchemist in particular because eq based shield break). All of them can also con spec for the extra tankiness. I like shikudo because kai heal is useful for tanking plus other good defensive options.

I put Psion at the bottom because it's squishy. It doesn't need artefacts offensively but I could imagine being squished unartied. Jester might have this problem too, though.

Cooper

I'd add all 3 knight classes to Farrah's list.

And Sentinel and Druid.

[Deleted User]

@Jovolo dont need dragon anymore. Level 80 has same hp as 99 now. Something to keep in mind. Although dragon itself is very strong, too.

Lavanda

From my personal experience as someone who has been every aff class but finds limbs boring. Basically the theme is balance classes who don't have artefacts that speed up their offense.

Psion: Love the class offensively and defensively, pressures priority swapping fantastically, and only has one commonly used kill that would be improved by artefacts, but it would only make killing faster, not easier. Easy enough to get into, but has potential for fantastically deep theorycrafting. Hard to get bored of.

Shaman: Everything you need is right there, though you're going to have to get used to swiftcursing's speed, which makes it above average difficulty to use manually, but still far from impossible. Against competent enemies it's not the fastest time to kill, but dolls make it so you don't have to rely solely on momentum and feel like you're on a timer to kill someone if you can survive prep kills. Just remember to actually use dolls. Not enough shaman do.

Depthswalker: Enjoys a Gattan'lier dagger artefact, but doesn't need one. This class is easy to pick up and understand, and at lower tiers of combat can win totally by accident. Simple offense and a few potent defensive options make it a solid class you won't have to theorycraft for hours to enjoy wins with. Offers fast kills, as well as a checkpoint where you can run and reset a fight, come back, and finish it quick. Strong, fast, and weirdly fun even though I usually prefer complexity.

Dragon: Very easy to understand, and capable of succeeding affliction-wise with no more than a simple trigger for dragoncurse, this class is defensively strong at the cost of extremely telegraphed kills. If you're able to achieve dragon, it's a solid option for non-artefacted combat, offering tools to give you peace of mind versus a great deal of opponents, including max health and resistances so you don't worry about being damaged out so easily.

Alchemist: Deceptively fast if your opponent lets you. The vast majority of people do not cure properly against this class even while all you're doing is paralysis wracking and humour tempering. A personal favorite of mine. Great defense, obnoxious hinder against people who handle humours poorly, and kills that can catch people off guard. Diadem helps make turtling against this class unfun, but it's absolutely not necessary for most people. The class makes you think enough to keep things interesting, but never so much it feels like a chore.

I don't like scoring classes by tier because a lot of the time it's just the better player that wins, so instead I'll just rank them based on the success I've personally had before I geared up with some arties:

#1 - Alchemist
#2 - Psion
#3 - Depthswalker
#4 - Dragon
#5 - Shaman

Hope this helps!

Cooper

Oh, Jovolo. There is also Elemental Lord now, which is free credit/lesson wise. Does require a fairly serious time investment to obtain (like...10% of dragon if you don't get quest answers from others).

Exelethril

Probably alchemist/shaman > DW > other classes

Jovolo

Are psion and DW realistically able to fight competitively with no artefacts if you spec for con, or do they need to invest in offensive stats?

Farrah

No stats required. If anything, you'd want defensive arties or dagger for DW (not required, but nice). Dagger for reference just makes starting your passive affs balanceless, rather than having to use a balance to start it up.

Cooper

Dagger still increases your mutilate damage too, right? 100% NOT required either, but good to know.

Antonius

Neither of them have particularly amazing strength scaling, so you're not losing out on loads of damage by speccing for constitution. Both classes also have methods of killing that don't require damage at all, though I would say they're quite a lot stronger for Psion.

Lenn

@Cooper I forget the exact amount, but something like 40% -> 43%. I might be off by 1 or even 2%.

Armali

Antonius said:

Neither of them have particularly amazing strength scaling, so you're not losing out on loads of damage by speccing for constitution. Both classes also have methods of killing that don't require damage at all, though I would say they're quite a lot stronger for Psion.

I don't believe this for a second, especially the part about 'amazing strength scaling'. I could almost tank unartied DW's forever using whatever semi-hindery offense I'd like, but someone on Karren's level of arties forces me to play very optimally.

Farrah

Unartied DW damage is fine. It is completely possible to kill with it, and DW also has alternative kill options that are also fine. I think that's what was really asked. Plenty of DWs con spec and do fine. Their artie weapons are of a sort that I, an artiewhore, only have a lvl 1 because I don't need them (even though I have lvl 3 dirk, lvl 3 mace, lvl 3 longsword, etc.). It's just not an issue. Going from base str to max makes you do like 2-3% more damage per reap iirc.

Torrent

Love Psion, but it is really squishy. Doesnt need offensive artefacts but defensive ones. Aldar is good for when you want to use emulation or psionics off transcend amd stacks very well with clarity. Only artefact I would suggest is SoA and that is preferable not required.

Mizik

My only experience really fighting those two classes is Penwize. I got fucking ANNIHILATED. Do not fight these classes artied under any circumstances.

Dathrun

Hey, necroing this because was getting wordy in quick. I am unable to buy credits, so I will have to get artifacts the long way. I see the classes in this thread, though have been told that knight can use arties, and am wondering about a couple not listed. 
Magi, I love the theam, combat looks like you can get away with damage or you can do amazing salve pressure into pummel, a finisher, or destroy, a kill.
dw/psion, listed here and I know dw sucks at hunting, my little testing of psion hunting seemed more fun, but not sure if that was just because I love the flavor.
monk, limb prep, painful, no affs needed can run at will. Seems strong, and has 100% bypass at the cost of slower prep when needed.
serpent, love the class idea, it and psion are my top two for sure, but need an l2 and/or dex arties?

Paux

Necro: A friend of mine wants to return to Achaea but mentioned how expensive the game is, so I have been gathering information on the best way he can play with little investment. Can someone confirm the information I've gathered it's still current?

From what I've gathered, Alchemist, Depthswalkers, Psions, Knight classes with Dual Blunt, and Magi are all capable of combat with lower lesson investments none of them require artifacts to be good. 

Also, are there any classes I've missed?

Vinzent

Shaman.

[Deleted User]

I wouldn't say Psion fits the bill. It doesn't need artifacts to get kills, but it needs them to survive versus a lot of classes. Even an unartied 2hander will splatter it.

Gilliam

Alchemist, Depthswalker, Magi, Shaman, Psion are all low investment for sure. They all have a few arties they'd like to have but I think Alchemist might want for the least. If your friend is interested in PvP mostly, I'd probably suggest Depthswalker as it's by design a low barrier to entry class for combat.

I'd stay away from knights 'cause even though they function without any arties, they're really investment hungry compared to other classes and even more so when compared to the other classes listed.

Archaeon

Everyone neglects tekura monk

Paux

Archaeon said:

Everyone neglects tekura monk

I saw mention of Shikudo Monk being good but requiring 4x Trans and assumed that since other-than monk wasn't mentioned, it required artifacts to be good. 

Is monk good with low investment?

Sophi

Monks really shine with major investment and wouldnt be the best class to suggest in this case, similar to knights. 

Astarod

I mean, just keep it simple. 

The top classes for less artefacts required is Depthswalker (survivability + damage), elemental lords are good, but I think people are forgetting that health artefacts are a thing, and affect your ability to survive soulpiercers, L3 bastardswords, etc. 

I think though, while @Gilliam is right about DWC and DWB, that 2H is a great low-artefact investment class for one on one combat, and can do great damage in groups. 

Cooper

Majority of classes don't need artefacts anymore, Mak has done a great job reducing or removing the need for arties for basic fighting.

Telikaan

I am trying to figure out what class best fits the idea I have for this char. Idea is for him to be a sort of lone warrior kind of guy, He is fine working with a group, but is most comfortable on his own or with a small group he knows well. Looking for a warrior feel, so he might be a magic user, but want him to use a weapon of some kind, and he likes moving around, being flexable, and not being dependent on anything around him, so nothing that requires much room prep. Looking for something flexable, so somewhere between painful and hard to kill, and want fast attacks so I always have the option to flee. I cannot spend money on the game for a good while, so was thinking Depthswalker, psion, orblademaster. Witch of these should fit best?

Archaeon

Dw is fine unartied. Psion can kill unartied fine but if someone sneezes on you, you'll die. Not sure about bm but I think bands are maybe not required but a huge buff. @Atalkez would know best

Atalkez

Don’t go Bm unartied.

Telikaan

Thank you both, will stick with depthswalker, though I love the idea of psion. Hopefully I will be more able to get artifacts at some point and can multi or change.