Army Powers

Astarod

The problem I think is, if someone doesn't want to defend, there's nothing there to get them to participate. Anyone can help in these things, be it doing their KILL attack or even touch web &tar. The problem is, there's nothing in it for them, other than saving a room that more often than not, no one cares about. 

So while Hashan, or Ashtan, or even Mhaldor may have certain Qwhos, the people on that Qwho aren't given any real reason to participate or try it out. I think the best way to do this would be to add rewards for both sides that are balanced, and encourage participation. 

The introduction of new mechanics will help some of the stuff that the current ones can't, and I'm not sure can, account for.  

Sobriquet

I'm not complaining at Ashtan at all, but probably should have realised trying to use a real example would be seen as a dig, I assure you, it's not.

My point being that raids in this game should be fun, they should be for a combat engagement that we enjoy. Being able to blow a tank and destroy a room in an empty (or near empty) city isn't an engagement, isn't combat and isn't fun, for either side. 

Krizal

Penwize said:

Sobriquet said:

2019/02/14 02:29:13 - <REDACTED> Retaliation raid by Ashtan in Cottage of the Keeper, raiders were: 

Dalran, Dunn, Majin, Truax, Penwize, Irimon, Katalyst, Nakhti, Jadys, and Astarod. Cecelia was the only one able to try to defend.

Yeh, Poor old Cecelia rolling over like a bitch. 

Uhh, so, just to clarify, this is what Hashan's QW looked like when we decided to retal raid:

[Hashan]     (28): [H]Adirielle, [HE]Ammar, [H]Anze, [H]Argwin, [H]Armali, [H]Calira, [H]Cecelia,
                   [H]Celna, [H]Iphy, [H]Jobaal, [HE]Jyzx, [H]Kaburia, [H]Killuwa, [H]Kotyonok,
                   [H]Laytron, [H]Marra, [H]Martien, [H]Mavrek, [H]Neoskae, [H]Qudroth, [H]Redwan,
                   [H]Reevah, [H]Rhydian, [H]Roenalia, [H]Silica, [H]Tilia, [H]Veilios,
                   [HEO]Zoktos

That's ... really not "only Cecelia."  Of the people visible in that QW list, you had Ammar, Anze, Cecelia, Killuwa, Mavrek, Neoskae, Rhydian, Veilios, and Zoktos as enlisted soldiers, and a handful of others who occasionally join defenses (Armali, Martien). 

I know Hashan's got a pretty big contingent of noncoms, but taking into account the people who just log off or only sometimes feel like defending when trying to decide when to retal raid isn't exactly easy.  Our original raid group only consisted of Dalran, Dunn, Jadys, Astarod, Majin, and myself.  We regularly invite non-participants in at the end for tank detonations since they're worth fat chunks of xp, so I wouldn't really count those people as raiders.  Your log's not even right for including those people, though. Evidence:

2019/02/14 01:40:07 - Dunn declared that our great city shall retaliate against the transgressions of the City of Hashan.
2019/02/14 02:25:01 - Astarod, Dalran, Dunn, Irimon, Jadys, Katalyst, Majin, and Penwize have destroyed The ruins of Cottage of the keeper.

I'm not really sure what to tell you, other than yeah sometimes it happens that a retal raid gets called with a much smaller response than is expected based on QW.  Still, if you're going to throw out accusations of impropriety, at least try to have them be correct.

That's fair. The log snippet posted by Sobriquet was the only piece of information we had on the people present for the raid, I agree based on the QW more people could've been expected to respond. There's only person on the list I know is comfortable with taking the lead in group fights, though, so if he was held up for whatever reason, that's probably why there was no response. That, and the threat of more people earringing in, and yourself and Dunn scaring people just by reputation.

[Deleted User]

A retaliation raid is not a guaranteed detonation. You have one hour from the time the sanction ticks. If no one engages, you are literally counting seconds and hoping it fills in enough time. Imagine an entire population just abandoning the city (had this happen in Hashan last week), and literally baby-sitting a tank for an hour and hoping it fills. I have literally gone to detonate a tank, the detonation begins, and then it disappears because we lost sanction right at the hour mark. (I put a bug in about that cause that was super sucky.)

So no. Nothing is guaranteed, and if there aren't a few army members around to boost the tank a bit, I won't retaliate. 

Astarod

literally baby-sitting a tank for an hour

Yeah, not to mention you have one or two monks radiancing and messing with you from the center of the city. I mean, it really, really sucks. Then, I think @Krizal had a tank hit about 92% and then it failed because we didn't engage. The problem with this mechanic is that it requires sensible raiding. My argument is to add stuff to do for sanctions, maybe alternate goals. Introduce something where a city doesn't resort to radiancing/guard kills, where it gives opportunities for defenders to defend, or perhaps even stuff for attackers to 'attack' or 'secure' so that sanction is elongated. It doesn't need to be a traditional rush. Perhaps you could incorporate offensive NPCs that can be bashed to hurt sanction timer, or various font points that can be tuned against the city. I'm not sure, I just know it's an opportunity if we really wanted something different here. 

I feel like there are ways to make this mechanic better is all. I'm not sure anyone enjoys sitting on a tank they know will get close to going off, and watching the raid defense leaders qq until the raid is over and then relog on. I'd rather it be more interactive, and reliant on mechanics making this fair than us making it fair. I think Cosmpiercers were also cool from Starmourn. Perhaps making some 'outposts' for us to fight over would be nice, and less 'serious' than having your home blown up. 

Torrent

Syndra said:

A retaliation raid is not a guaranteed detonation. You have one hour from the time the sanction ticks. If no one engages, you are literally counting seconds and hoping it fills in enough time. Imagine an entire population just abandoning the city (had this happen in Hashan last week), and literally baby-sitting a tank for an hour and hoping it fills. I have literally gone to detonate a tank, the detonation begins, and then it disappears because we lost sanction right at the hour mark. (I put a bug in about that cause that was super sucky.)

So no. Nothing is guaranteed, and if there aren't a few army members around to boost the tank a bit, I won't retaliate. 

Yeah Eleusis has done this before. I think it's to help promote engagement rather then just popping tanks when no one is around to defend. Most people dont realize in a ret raid that if you dont want a tank blown just leave the city, but if you engage it can blow. Kudos to people who defend though, I usually give people who are in underdog situation more respect for at least attempting, though no griping if they lose cause they choose to engage.

Vinzent

I, uh. I've never seen Killuwa, Mavrek, or Veilios (in Hashan) fight in anything ever. I don't even recognize the first two names. If you're counting people like Neoskae and Rhydian, even if they are army members, then your approach is wrong. They might defend and should have an eye kept on in case they do defend, but the threat they present is non-existent.

Edit: Given who was brought in, even if all those people were active defenders and at least knew some of what they should be doing, I would doubt the competence of anyone trying to make them defend against such a group unless there was some brilliant master plan that was either very likely to, or guaranteed to succeed.

Vinzent

Anytime I'm present for a raid in Hashan, the list of people I expect to defend usually ends up doubling when I see who hits alertness. More than a few people defend too sporadically for me to expect to regularly participate, and it might be that one or two new people want to participate, or someone who normally does can't, or won't. I find enjoyment in winning with as few people as possible, not as many as can be had. That makes it boring and pointless.

Minifie

Anyone pointing fingers at anyone else for sporadic defense should probably move to a house made of something more stable.

People may, or may not defend. Go in, shake engagement, if not, move on. Not really sure what’s so hard about it, just be careful if you are one who defends sporadically that it may, in turn, cause your enemies to not bother either. Sometimes you gotta get womped if you want people to be more accomodating to a womping.

Zhedan

Syndra said:

See: Eleusis, Hashan, and Cyrene. The former two have active raiders who aren't in the army. 

Not sure who are two are. I have never seen Armali or Calira raid. Not even once. I wouldn't even begin to call them active raiders. 

Jiraishin

Oh god why did this thread have to be necro'd

Astarod

Jiraishin said:

Oh god why did this thread have to be necro'd

I vote that you lose all army privs until you melee

must... kill... sniper.....

Jiraishin

Astarod said:

Jiraishin said:

Oh god why did this thread have to be necro'd

I vote that you lose all army privs until you melee

must... kill... sniper.....

You train your expert eye on Astarod and let fly an arrow with breathtaking precision.
Your arrow strikes true!
You have slain Astarod.

Taryius

       

Astarod

Jiraishin said:

Astarod said:

Jiraishin said:

Oh god why did this thread have to be necro'd

I vote that you lose all army privs until you melee

must... kill... sniper.....

You train your expert eye on Astarod and let fly an arrow with breathtaking precision.
Your arrow strikes true!
You have slain Astarod.

Needs more timewell

Jiraishin

Taryius said:

       

This is what my better 1v1s look like.

Torrent

Jiraishin said:

Taryius said:

       

This is what my better 1v1s look like.

You would have a lot more head implodes.